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Thread: Marc Stein thinks Lowry is still being moved

  1. #81
    Raptors Republic All-Star Primer's Avatar
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    Quote Shrub wrote: View Post
    All good points.

    It's so easy to get lost in all the details with these forum discussions, but the message that really matters here is something is motivating Masai to trade Lowry. There's a reason.
    The reason is obvious. Lowry is not restricted and will be a free agent after this season. Unless it's a lifetime guy like Duncan or Nowitzki, you don't assume anyone will resign in the offseason, especially when you're a middling team (our big selling point to Lowry is he starts and he's playing well here, not Championships). That's all the reason in the world for any competent GM to field offers on a player.

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    yes!

  3. #83
    Raptors Republic All-Star Scraptor's Avatar
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    Quote S.R. wrote: View Post
    I think it'll take a lot more than one good month from the Nets or a few iffy losses from the Raps to swing the pendulum for Ujiri as much as is being suggested, don't you?

    Again, this is a big-picture, patient guy. I think he's indicated he's got a pretty serious rebuild in mind (he has to to get to championship-contender status). The biggest determining factor when it comes to transactions, far bigger than the W/L record over the last 5 games, is what offers are on the table. He's shown a willingness to move all of his key pieces - multiple sources have reported that at some point during MU's tenure, every Raptors has been available save for JV (at least I never read anything about him). I really think that, given a good enough deal, MU would still move any player on this roster, right now. If the deals aren't good enough, he'll keep them. He's not going to weight a salary dump or the fear of a player walking in FA so heavily that he pulls a Rob Babcock-type trade. When he's offered enough for Lowry, he'll trade him. If he's offered crap, I think he'd keep him for a playoff run.

    As far as Lowry "screwing" the Raps by carrying them to a poor draft position and then maybe leaving this summer - them's the breaks. Nobody predicted this post-Rudy success. MU had good reasons for keeping young players with upside when only weak offers were on the table. Heck, he would have traded Lowry to NY if not for Dolan. Obviously no offers after that were worth it. Shoulda woulda coulda's don't really bother me.
    From Masai's interview last game it seems that our unexpected success was the very thing that led him to keep Lowry instead of proceeding with the teardown that began with Rudy. That was clearly tactical maneuvering. If Stein's sources are to be believed, then this would again be another swing of the pendulum.

    [Edited to add: first evaluation period was to mid-December (45 days), and resulted in Gay being traded on December 8th. Then we start winning. Then on January 9th, "however, if the team stumbles through this three-week period, then a lot of hard decisions have to be made about personnel. That would put the team back on a trade footing." So a second evaluation period that ends right about now, when Lowry trade rumours start resurfacing. That doesn't sound like big picture thinking at all to me. It sounds like trying to react to the team's play instead of setting a course first. Tactics, not strategy.]

    Here's my issue: them's the breaks is not an acceptable asset management strategy. If we end up with a first round exit, a weak pick, and no Lowry, I don't think Masai should be let off the hook that easy.

    Lowry has been on a widely acknowledged underpaid contract the last few years and this may be his last chance to cash in. He's also playing at the highest level of his career. Not to mention he's had friction with Casey, which may or may not still be a factor according to that report a few weeks back. With all this in mind, MU had better be absolutely sure he knows the lay of the land as he considers his options.
    Last edited by Scraptor; Mon Jan 27th, 2014 at 08:48 PM.

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  5. #84
    Raptors Republic Hall of Famer MACK11's Avatar
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    Lowry will get 10M-12M for 5 years from someone Book it!

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    Quote 4hunnit_degreez wrote: View Post
    Lowry will get 10M-12M for 5 years from someone Book it!
    Would be surprised if he settled for less, or got offered less.

    He's worth 10 - 12M for 5-Years, from a team that thinks he can sustain this level of play, and what-not.

    Whether or not Toronto is willing to offer him that, who knows.

  7. #86
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    Keep in mind that the Raptors are the only team that can offer him 5 years (unless they trade his rights, in which case that next team can offer him 5). Since that 5th year is going to be for a 32-year-old Lowry, you should be able to negotiate it for less, but give the player an extra year of security. So, basically top anyone else's offer by about 5 million over the life of the contract. If another team offers him $48 for 4 years, Toronto offers him $53 million for 5 years, and I think both sides would be okay with that (though I'd be happier with it somewhere around $45 million over 5).

    If Ujiri feels that the odds of retaining Lowry are low, and the trade returns are high, then yeah, definitely make the trade. But if the odds of retaining Lowry are decent and the trade returns are low (I'd consider the package that New York opted not to trade as low), then take your chances resigning him in the offseason. On the other hand, if trade returns are crap and the odds of Lowry staying are low, or if the returns are good but there's a great chance of resigning Lowry, those are where there are hard decisions. These are unknown factors either way that make it impossible for us fans to make any sort of rational decisions on.
    tank-agnostic

  8. #87
    Raptors Republic All-Star BigCamB's Avatar
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    Quote Wiggins wrote: View Post
    yes!
    Must be the best news you've read all week.
    Did you enjoy the game today?

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  10. #88
    Raptors Republic Rookie Tortacular's Avatar
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    Of course they're "interested". If somebody meets the price. Which is HIGH. That's what good GMs do. They demand value in return for assets. Do I think it's likely that Lowry gets traded? Nope. Teams don't want to part with multiple young assets (players/picks) for a guy on an expiring deal. And the Raptors have no reason to trade him otherwise. We're halfway through the season. The Raptors are in contention for homecourt, and have energized the fanbase as well as the roster. Trading a guy on a young team while you're winning sends a pretty confusing message to the rest of your roster. So you need a GOOD reason to do it.

    If all they can get is a #1 in 2015 or later, then why not wait and just sign and trade him in the summer? You're not going to get worse than the Bucks or Sixers or Magic or Celtics or Cavs or Pistons. You're not going to get worse than the Jazz or Kings or Lakers. Why on earth would anybody tank to pick 8th or 9th? Even if you could get down below those teams, all-out tanking is not a solution to anything automatically, as all Raptors fans should know.
    You can find me on Twitter.

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    Quote octothorp wrote: View Post
    Keep in mind that the Raptors are the only team that can offer him 5 years (unless they trade his rights, in which case that next team can offer him 5). Since that 5th year is going to be for a 32-year-old Lowry, you should be able to negotiate it for less, but give the player an extra year of security. So, basically top anyone else's offer by about 5 million over the life of the contract. If another team offers him $48 for 4 years, Toronto offers him $53 million for 5 years, and I think both sides would be okay with that (though I'd be happier with it somewhere around $45 million over 5).

    If Ujiri feels that the odds of retaining Lowry are low, and the trade returns are high, then yeah, definitely make the trade. But if the odds of retaining Lowry are decent and the trade returns are low (I'd consider the package that New York opted not to trade as low), then take your chances resigning him in the offseason. On the other hand, if trade returns are crap and the odds of Lowry staying are low, or if the returns are good but there's a great chance of resigning Lowry, those are where there are hard decisions. These are unknown factors either way that make it impossible for us fans to make any sort of rational decisions on.
    Agreed 1000+.
    “The saving of our world from pending doom will come, not through the complacent adjustment of the conforming majority, but through the creative maladjustment of a nonconforming minority.” - Martin Luther King

  12. #90
    Raptors Republic All-Star Balls of Steel's Avatar
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    Funny how we're speculating on a player that most GMs would want on their team but most coaches hate. Lowry himself is an interesting rollercoaster ride and polarizing player indeed.
    “The saving of our world from pending doom will come, not through the complacent adjustment of the conforming majority, but through the creative maladjustment of a nonconforming minority.” - Martin Luther King

  13. #91
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    Quote Fully wrote: View Post
    Yeah the whole thing started with the report that Ujiri is asking for a big return on Lowry. No one said anything about dumping him.
    Quote Fully wrote: View Post
    I missed you P00ka!

    If you don't like the word 'report', then how about the word 'discussion' ?
    This discussion started around the premise that Ujiri is still holding out for a large return on Lowry; not a simple dump of him to get worse in the short term. Can we move on with the actual topic now that we've hashed out that meaningless point over semantics? Man oh man.
    Whoaaa! I don't know what a "P00ka" is, but I gather that wasn't meant as a compliment. Isn't there some rule against childish name calling? Whatever.

    Otherwise, your reply is rather senseless.

    "If you don't like the word 'report', then how about the word 'discussion' ?"

    Condescending bugger aren't you. Isn't there a forum rule against that too? Beginning to wonder if these rules are applied selectively, but I digress.

    My point had nothing to do with "semantics", but I felt I had reason, in my opinion that you invited in your OP, to clarify what we're "discussing". FYI, you created this thread, quoting a baseless tweet, inviting discussion about that TWEET.

    1. As the internet goes far too often, some people turn rumours into fact, or as in this case, turn a "baseless, tweeted rumour" into a "report". Not living in the twit world myself, I hardly see a baseless tweet as a "report", or even less as a "discussion"

    2. I was merely referring to that misnomer as lead-in to my points that question the validity of that tweet, and why people take such shit so seriously. I asked if anyone had anything more backing up Stein's bs. You obviously don't, nor does anybody.

    "Can we move on with the actual topic now that we've hashed out that meaningless point over semantics?"

    Hey pal, you presented a tweet, and invited opinions. I gave my opinion of that tweet, but apparently you're getting your nuts all in a knot over my angle on the very "topic" you posted. If you create a thread, and want to restrict the discussion to only your angle on it, perhaps you should state that in your OP. Otherwise, I have no idea why you're so bent out of shape over my comment, unless you feel that the reality of what that tweet represents makes this discussion look foolish. That's life pal. We all make mistakes. No need to get all bent out of shape, and have a hissy fit.

    That said, if you wish to spend your time analyzing bloody tweets as factual reports, because they support your narrative, have fun with that. Personally, I choose to put a hell of a lot more stock into what I read from all the body language I see from Kyle and his team, and a GM waiting in the tunnel for a mutual hug with his PG, that you want traded.

    Go Kyle!!! Go Raptors!!!

  14. #92
    Raptors Republic All-Star ebrian's Avatar
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    Quote Balls of Steel wrote: View Post
    Maybe we should all change our avatars to a used car salesman instead.
    Are you suggesting we all change our avatars to Bryan Colangelo?
    your pal,
    ebrian

  15. #93
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    Quote salmon wrote: View Post
    Whoaaa! I don't know what a "P00ka" is, but I gather that wasn't meant as a compliment. Isn't there some rule against childish name calling? Whatever.
    Just FYI Pooka was an abrasive "anti-tanker" who seems to have been either temporarily or permanently banned from this site. He had a knack for starting giant fights over small disagreements and liked bringing up past transgressions.

  16. #94
    Raptors Republic All-Star Fully's Avatar
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    Quote stooley wrote: View Post
    Just FYI Pooka was an abrasive "anti-tanker" who seems to have been either temporarily or permanently banned from this site. He had a knack for starting giant fights over small disagreements and liked bringing up past transgressions on the regular.
    I don't know if this was supposed to be tongue in cheek but salmon = p00ka.

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    Quote salmon wrote: View Post
    Whoaaa! I don't know what a "P00ka" is, but I gather that wasn't meant as a compliment.

    Condescending bugger aren't you.

    you're getting your nuts all in a knot

    I have no idea why you're so bent out of shape

    No need to get all bent out of shape, and have a hissy fit.
    Really? You've never met p00ka? Precious stuff.
    "I don't lie. I willfully participate in a campaign of misinformation." - Fox Mulder

  18. #96
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    Quote Fully wrote: View Post
    I don't know if this was supposed to be tongue in cheek but salmon = p00ka.
    I almost made that same remark in a different thread before seeing the one here. He does have a distinct style.

  19. #97
    Raptors Republic All-Star Fully's Avatar
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    Quote salmon wrote: View Post
    Whoaaa! I don't know what a "P00ka" is, but I gather that wasn't meant as a compliment. Isn't there some rule against childish name calling? Whatever.

    Otherwise, your reply is rather senseless.

    "If you don't like the word 'report', then how about the word 'discussion' ?"

    Condescending bugger aren't you. Isn't there a forum rule against that too? Beginning to wonder if these rules are applied selectively, but I digress.

    My point had nothing to do with "semantics", but I felt I had reason, in my opinion that you invited in your OP, to clarify what we're "discussing". FYI, you created this thread, quoting a baseless tweet, inviting discussion about that TWEET.

    1. As the internet goes far too often, some people turn rumours into fact, or as in this case, turn a "baseless, tweeted rumour" into a "report". Not living in the twit world myself, I hardly see a baseless tweet as a "report", or even less as a "discussion"

    2. I was merely referring to that misnomer as lead-in to my points that question the validity of that tweet, and why people take such shit so seriously. I asked if anyone had anything more backing up Stein's bs. You obviously don't, nor does anybody.

    "Can we move on with the actual topic now that we've hashed out that meaningless point over semantics?"

    Hey pal, you presented a tweet, and invited opinions. I gave my opinion of that tweet, but apparently you're getting your nuts all in a knot over my angle on the very "topic" you posted. If you create a thread, and want to restrict the discussion to only your angle on it, perhaps you should state that in your OP. Otherwise, I have no idea why you're so bent out of shape over my comment, unless you feel that the reality of what that tweet represents makes this discussion look foolish. That's life pal. We all make mistakes. No need to get all bent out of shape, and have a hissy fit.

    That said, if you wish to spend your time analyzing bloody tweets as factual reports, because they support your narrative, have fun with that. Personally, I choose to put a hell of a lot more stock into what I read from all the body language I see from Kyle and his team, and a GM waiting in the tunnel for a mutual hug with his PG, that you want traded.

    Go Kyle!!! Go Raptors!!!
    Lol. I'm not having a hissy fit, or have my "nuts tied in a knot" in the least. That is what this is ^^. I was honestly just trying to get the convo back on track and not have it derailed by the same strange, long winded rants from you that seemed to override a lot of the discussion before you were banned a few weeks ago. There's close to 100 replies in this thread in the last day, so it seems that someone may be interested in having a discussion about the topic at hand, even if you aren't.

    Your opinion on the matter is certainly valid, and if you think Stein is full of crap, you are able to say so. Lost in all of your ranting and raving is the fact that I pretty much said that before you did during the first 20 replies of the thread. Regardless, if that's how you feel than why not just say your piece like a civilized person and keep it moving?

    This will be the last time I respond to one of these posts from you. I'm not interested in arguing with a grown man over an NBA team online, trust me. I like talking about the Raptors, and it's a lot more enjoyable to do it when you're not following me around being a troll.

    Cheers.

  20. #98
    Raptors Republic Superstar ReubenJRD's Avatar
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    Quote Fully wrote: View Post
    Lol. I'm not having a hissy fit, or have my "nuts tied in a knot" in the least. That is what this is ^^. I was honestly just trying to get the convo back on track and not have it derailed by the same strange, long winded rants from you that seemed to override a lot of the discussion before you were banned a few weeks ago. There's close to 100 replies in this thread in the last day, so it seems that someone may be interested in having a discussion about the topic at hand, even if you aren't.

    Your opinion on the matter is certainly valid, and if you think Stein is full of crap, you are able to say so. Lost in all of your ranting and raving is the fact that I pretty much said that before you did during the first 20 replies of the thread. Regardless, if that's how you feel than why not just say your piece like a civilized person and keep it moving?

    This will be the last time I respond to one of these posts from you. I'm not interested in arguing with a grown man over an NBA team online, trust me. I like talking about the Raptors, and it's a lot more enjoyable to do it when you're not following me around being a troll.

    Cheers.
    Alright fellas, let's chill here. All problems and issues with one another can be resolved in private chat with yourselves or facilitated with a mod. Let's keep this place heated about the Raptors, the NBA, and whatever basketball related, not personal.

    Thanks for the cooperation.

  21. #99
    Super Moderator CalgaryRapsFan's Avatar
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    Quote salmon wrote: View Post
    Whoaaa! I don't know what a "P00ka" is, but I gather that wasn't meant as a compliment. Isn't there some rule against childish name calling? Whatever.

    Otherwise, your reply is rather senseless.

    "If you don't like the word 'report', then how about the word 'discussion' ?"

    Condescending bugger aren't you. Isn't there a forum rule against that too? Beginning to wonder if these rules are applied selectively, but I digress.

    My point had nothing to do with "semantics", but I felt I had reason, in my opinion that you invited in your OP, to clarify what we're "discussing". FYI, you created this thread, quoting a baseless tweet, inviting discussion about that TWEET.

    1. As the internet goes far too often, some people turn rumours into fact, or as in this case, turn a "baseless, tweeted rumour" into a "report". Not living in the twit world myself, I hardly see a baseless tweet as a "report", or even less as a "discussion"

    2. I was merely referring to that misnomer as lead-in to my points that question the validity of that tweet, and why people take such shit so seriously. I asked if anyone had anything more backing up Stein's bs. You obviously don't, nor does anybody.

    "Can we move on with the actual topic now that we've hashed out that meaningless point over semantics?"

    Hey pal, you presented a tweet, and invited opinions. I gave my opinion of that tweet, but apparently you're getting your nuts all in a knot over my angle on the very "topic" you posted. If you create a thread, and want to restrict the discussion to only your angle on it, perhaps you should state that in your OP. Otherwise, I have no idea why you're so bent out of shape over my comment, unless you feel that the reality of what that tweet represents makes this discussion look foolish. That's life pal. We all make mistakes. No need to get all bent out of shape, and have a hissy fit.

    That said, if you wish to spend your time analyzing bloody tweets as factual reports, because they support your narrative, have fun with that. Personally, I choose to put a hell of a lot more stock into what I read from all the body language I see from Kyle and his team, and a GM waiting in the tunnel for a mutual hug with his PG, that you want traded.

    Go Kyle!!! Go Raptors!!!
    Given the title and OP of this thread, I thought it was quite obvious that this was a purely hypothetical discussion, under the assumption that there could be truth behind Stein's Tweet. Essentially, there's a 'suspension of disbelief' associated with the ongoing discussion.

    I don't think anybody posting in this thread is adamant that Stein's Tweet is 100% truth, supported by verified, guaranteed sources. I'm sure lots of people posting in this thread probably even assume Stein's Tweet is nothing more than pure personal conjecture, without an ounce of fact behind it; that doesn't need to stop a hypothetical conversation from happening.

    If hypothetical situations and "what if" musings were outlawed, we'd have nothing but game-day threads here in the forum. Unless, of course, MU decided to share some inside information to get feedback from loyal RR posters!

    As a new poster here on RR, I'd suggest either joining in the hypothetical discussion, or simply ignoring the thread altogether. Please feel free to share your thoughts too, even if it's nothing more than "Stein's full of shit and knows nothing". I'd ask you not to poo-poo on an otherwise interesting and respectful conversation that had already been going on for 90 posts.


    Cheers!
    Last edited by CalgaryRapsFan; Tue Jan 28th, 2014 at 02:33 PM.

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  23. #100
    Raptors Republic Starter imaginelino's Avatar
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    Without Lowry and a super decent PG as part of the return, this team will drop in No Man's Land. They won't be able to hold onto the Atlantic and risk dropping down to the dreaded 9-12th place. MU must see this.

    anybody have ESPN insider?, Lowry article called "A Place In The Sun" ...Suns a possible destination for Lowry?

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