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Thread: Now I Know Why They Call Bargnani "Ill Mago"!

  1. #21
    Administrator Arsenalist's Avatar
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    Bargnani's ceiling is higher than Aldridge. Aldridge is a better player than Bargnani. They are both overpaid, but considering their production, consistency and salary, Aldridge earns a higher percentage of his salary than Bargnani.

  2. #22
    Raptors Republic Veteran LBF's Avatar
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    way to flip out and start blaming guys because your team si doing bad as of late. you either blame it on the whole team or maybe even blame it on yourself for abondoning ship because of a little bump in the road.

    when will toronto fans learn to chill, you wonder why no one wants to play here. well, the fasn are nice when your winning they put you under a microscope if your having a flippin bad game or hit a slump.

    sheez, i don't think jack nicholson is flipping that his lakers have lost 3 in a row. take a chill pill.

  3. #23
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    Quote Arsenalist wrote: View Post
    Bargnani's ceiling is higher than Aldridge. Aldridge is a better player than Bargnani. They are both overpaid, but considering their production, consistency and salary, Aldridge earns a higher percentage of his salary than Bargnani.
    I am curious, why do you think that Bargnani has a higher ceiling over Aldridge?

  4. #24
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    Quote Bendit wrote: View Post
    Imo, Bargs has all the physical tools and talent to be a v. good player in the NBA. The problem seems to be between the ears.
    Agreed -- Bargnani is athletic enough to be a dominant player in the NBA. The problem is both mental + skill-based ... mostly mental.

  5. #25
    Administrator Arsenalist's Avatar
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    Quote Dave wrote: View Post
    I am curious, why do you think that Bargnani has a higher ceiling over Aldridge?
    More diverse game. Bargnani has shown he can post-up, he's got a face-up give with his drive, better perimeter shooter, ability to play good help and great man-defense. The rebounding will never be there to what we hope, but his game spans a wider range than Aldridge's. IF (and that's a big if) he manages to put it together he'll be a dangerous player and that's what BC is banking on.

    Aldridge does what he does very well and he's going to be a consistent producer for years to come, but does he have superstar written on him? No. Not saying Bargnani does either with the way he's playing, but if his game starts actually coming close to Dirk, he can be. With every passing month it looks like a reach, but theoretically, he's got a higher ceiling.

  6. #26
    Administrator Apollo's Avatar
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    Quote LBF wrote: View Post
    sheez, i don't think jack nicholson is flipping that his lakers have lost 3 in a row. take a chill pill.
    What are you talking about? Jack is flipping out if Kobe's lace comes undone.

  7. #27
    Raptors Republic Veteran Buddahfan's Avatar
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    Quote Apollo wrote: View Post
    If you look at the top five (Bargnani, Aldridge, Morrison(bust), Thomas(bust) and Williams(bust)) I am baffled as to how you can criticize Colangelo for drafting Andrea Bargnani. Its not fair and doesn't make sense. The man drafted a good player and by my count dodged three hollow point bullets.
    Tyrus Thomas is not a bust.

    Bargnani is averaging about 17 ppg and 6 rpg in 34 mpg

    Thomas since the trade to Charlotte is averaging 13 ppg 8 rpg in 26 mpg.

    On top of that Thomas is averaging 2.6 bpg compared to Bargnani's 1.4 bpg.

    The situation for Thomas in Chicago just turned bad. In Charlotte with a fresh start he is starting to play up to his potential.

    If Thomas is a bust so is Bargnani and even more so since Bargnani was taken #1 when the Raptors could have traded down and taken Thomas, Roy, Gay or Aldredge.

  8. #28
    Raptors Republic Veteran Buddahfan's Avatar
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    Quote Apollo wrote: View Post
    What are you talking about? Jack is flipping out if Kobe's lace comes undone.
    The last time I saw Jack flipping was behind the grill


  9. #29
    Raptors Republic Veteran Buddahfan's Avatar
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    Quote Arsenalist wrote: View Post
    More diverse game. Bargnani has shown he can post-up, he's got a face-up give with his drive, better perimeter shooter, ability to play good help and great man-defense. The rebounding will never be there to what we hope, but his game spans a wider range than Aldridge's. IF (and that's a big if) he manages to put it together he'll be a dangerous player and that's what BC is banking on.

    Aldridge does what he does very well and he's going to be a consistent producer for years to come, but does he have superstar written on him? No. Not saying Bargnani does either with the way he's playing, but if his game starts actually coming close to Dirk, he can be. With every passing month it looks like a reach, but theoretically, he's got a higher ceiling.
    Bargnani's defense is non-existent or as they say he plays matador defense.

    His defense is like a mosquito net with far too many holes in it. Once in a while a mosquito will accidentally collide with one of the pieces of netting still in tack but most of the time they have no problem finding their way through the holes in the net on the way to their victim.

  10. #30
    Administrator Apollo's Avatar
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    Quote Buddahfan wrote: View Post
    Tyrus Thomas is not a bust.

    Bargnani is averaging about 17 ppg and 6 rpg in 34 mpg

    Thomas since the trade to Charlotte is averaging 13 ppg 8 rpg in 26 mpg.

    On top of that Thomas is averaging 2.6 bpg compared to Bargnani's 1.4 bpg.
    Let's forget everything that happened in Thomas' past, let's just judge his career on the last nine games. Everything we need to know we can find out there. At the same time let's judge Bargnani on the entire season to date.

    If nine games is enough to judge someone's career then Bargnani has been a bust and a stud about two dozen times now.

  11. #31
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    I would rather have Ty Thomas than Bargnani. I think Ty Thomas is an underrated player, a good-to-very good defender + solid rebounder + good complementary offensive player. Whereas I'd judge Bargnani as a poor defender + very poor rebounder + solid scorer (scores at a good clip + is efficient but not skilled enough at creating his own shot which limits his ability as a go-to scorer). As a result, I'd rather have Ty Thomas.

    I also think Ty Thomas has a lot more likely to realize potential than Bargnani (becoming a very good-to-excellent defender + good-to-very good rebounder + very good complementary offensive player). I am far less certain (optimistic?) about Bargnani's development.

    But I do agree with the main point -- I have no issue with Colangelo drafting Bargnani. He was a solid pick given the situation.

    The problem I have had with the Bargnani + Raptors situation has been Colangelo keeping him all these years and then handing him a hefty contract extension this summer. The draft pick and the first two years of Bargnani's career, fine, that's fine. Bargnani remaining on the roster past that point? I didn't like that decision by BC.

  12. #32
    Raptors Republic Starter rdiaz101's Avatar
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    Quote LBF wrote: View Post
    way to flip out and start blaming guys because your team si doing bad as of late. you either blame it on the whole team or maybe even blame it on yourself for abondoning ship because of a little bump in the road.

    when will toronto fans learn to chill, you wonder why no one wants to play here. well, the fasn are nice when your winning they put you under a microscope if your having a flippin bad game or hit a slump.

    sheez, i don't think jack nicholson is flipping that his lakers have lost 3 in a row. take a chill pill.
    If u dont like what i write on here than why are u posting on this thread.

  13. #33
    Raptors Republic Veteran Buddahfan's Avatar
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    Quote Apollo wrote: View Post
    Let's forget everything that happened in Thomas' past, let's just judge his career on the last nine games. Everything we need to know we can find out there. At the same time let's judge Bargnani on the entire season to date.

    If nine games is enough to judge someone's career then Bargnani has been a bust and a stud about two dozen times now.
    When Bargnani changes teams then we can try your suggestion. There are countless of NBA players whose game has been elevated tremendously after they changed teams.

    A couple of great Pistons that I can think of were are Ben Wallace who was a scrub before he went to the Pistons the first time. Another is C. Billups who was also a scrub before he went to the Pistons and could arguably be considered the best PG in the NBA over the last decade when you include his leadership. I think he is working on 7 straight Conference Finals and will probably get 8 straight this year which I believe would either tie the NBA record or break it. Neither Denver nor Detroit has made it past the first round in the playoffs over the last 10 years without him leading the way.

    There are numerous other examples. I am sure you can think of a number of players who significantly improved their game to come closer to achieving or exceeding their potential once they switched teams.

    Yes 9 games is a small sample but I think his play will only continue to get better under Larry Brown.

  14. #34
    Administrator Apollo's Avatar
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    Quote Buddahfan wrote: View Post
    When Bargnani changes teams then we can try your suggestion. There are countless of NBA players whose game has been elevated tremendously after they changed teams.
    Or you could actually wait until Thomas has significant games under his belt with his new team. Yeah guys sometimes elevate their game after a trade and sometimes its short lived. I can use a good Raptors example. Jalen Rose and Donyell Marshall. When those two showed up they ran wild for the first month and then came back to reality. Maybe it's an ego thing or maybe it's something else but some guys "wake up" for a little while after being traded only to slip back to reality. It happens so many times that I cannot be sold on nine games.

    Quote Buddahfan wrote: View Post
    A couple of great Pistons that I can think of were are Ben Wallace who was a scrub before he went to the Pistons the first time.
    First of all Wallace went undrafted. Anyone who doesn't get drafted, who makes the league, has a huge accomplishment under their belt. Second, if you call back to back seasons, prior to going to the Pistons, of around 25min 8 rebounds, 2 blocks and 4 points stiff numbers then half the league is comprised of stiffs.

    And for every Billups, there is a handful of guys who fade away given time.
    Last edited by Apollo; Wed Mar 10th, 2010 at 11:57 AM. Reason: Wallace pt.

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