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  1. #1
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    Default How Can We Upgrade This Offseason?

    Given this list of free agents for 2014, who could we realistically lure to Toronto in an effort to bolster our roster next year before going all in on KD in 2016?

    http://hoopshype.com/free_agency_2014.htm

  2. #2
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    I like Gordan Hayward for un upgrade at the 3.
    Sorry Demar.

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    Raptors Republic All-Star stooley's Avatar
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    Quote DutchyBrown wrote: View Post
    I like Gordan Hayward for un upgrade at the 3.
    Sorry Demar.
    DD isn't really a three in my opinion. I think the team needs 2 things:

    1. a SF
    2. a backup center

    Ideally one of those guys could fill in for John Salmons as a veteran presence.

    On this list, guys I like are:

    Spencer Hawes for < 6 mill
    Danny Granger for < 7 mill
    Ariza for < 6 mill
    Sefolosha for ~ 6 mill
    VC less than 3 year for ~ 3 mill
    Al Farouq Aminu for < 5 mill
    Hayward, long term for less than DD.

    I think if we can get any one of these guys on a discount, then were looking good.

    Edit: I'd take Marvin Williams on a discount too
    Last edited by stooley; Wed Jan 29th, 2014 at 12:43 PM.

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    Quote DutchyBrown wrote: View Post
    I like Gordan Hayward for un upgrade at the 3.
    Sorry Demar.
    I don't see Hayward as an upgrade at all, and even stats bear that out. They have virtually equal stats, while DD is the focus of every team's defense. Hell, they not only put there best perimeter defender on him, but constantly double team him as well.

    I don't get how DeMar keeps being under appreciated in some circles. Here's a little tidbit: everyone talks of Harden being a superstar, yet also saying we need better than DeMar. This year, DeMar's stats are virtually identical to Harden's, who also happens to think DeMar belongs in the all star game. Oh well, grass is always greener.....

    I'm not sure the right upgrades are available in free agency this summer, but that may depend on what the intent of such upgrades are. I highly doubt that MU's intent is to try and build a championship caliber team for next year. I assume that his intent is to build a team around a young core that will grow together. Having said that, assuming MU signs Lowry, I think the primary needed upgrades are at backup C, preferably a vet, and at starting PF, though considering the scoring available elsewhere in the line-up, I think the triumvirate of Amir/2Pat/Hansbrough can hold down the fort quite well for now. I don't see anybody that fits that bill in free agency this year. Munroe is a RFA, and it may take overpayment to get a guy that doesn't really fit what this team is trying to do. His defense is horrid, and he'd only take touches away from JV on offense.

    If anything major is done, I see it coming from a trade more so than free agency this year. Moves will be made, but it may only be tweaks to help the supporting cast. MU is being patient, and i think we need to be as well.

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    Quote salmon wrote: View Post
    I don't get how DeMar keeps being under appreciated in some circles. Here's a little tidbit: everyone talks of Harden being a superstar, yet also saying we need better than DeMar. This year, DeMar's stats are virtually identical to Harden's.
    Harden and Demar's stats are virtually identical ... except for shooting efficiency.

    If you have Harden on your team, you get 4 points a game more than you get with Demar on your team.

    That's the difference between a superstar and an average player.

    The Stats:
    Harden scores 29.5 points per game off 20.1 shots (or 25.5 possessions including those he gets FTs on).
    Demar scores 27.7 points per game off 22.9 shots (or 27.4 possessions).
    Give Demar Harden's 25.5 possessions, and he scores 25.5 points ... 4 points less than Harden does.

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    Raptors Republic All-Star slaw's Avatar
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    Quote Kuh wrote: View Post
    Harden and Demar's stats are virtually identical ... except for shooting efficiency.

    If you have Harden on your team, you get 4 points a game more than you get with Demar on your team.

    That's the difference between a superstar and an average player.

    The Stats:
    Harden scores 29.5 points per game off 20.1 shots (or 25.5 possessions including those he gets FTs on).
    Demar scores 27.7 points per game off 22.9 shots (or 27.4 possessions).
    Give Demar Harden's 25.5 possessions, and he scores 25.5 points ... 4 points less than Harden does.
    Assuming, of course, that every other variable affecting the two players is exactly the same, which, of course, is not true.

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    Raptors Republic Superstar TRex's Avatar
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    Quote DutchyBrown wrote: View Post
    I like Gordan Hayward for un upgrade at the 3.
    Sorry Demar.
    More like a downgrade.

    People here for some reason underrate DeRozan so much. It's crazy.
    Follow me on Twitter - @11_RRyan

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    Hayward is a restricted free agent. Even if the Raptors offer the max, which seems excessive, chances are that the Jazz would match. They have lots of space at the moment and they can't afford to lose their young talent.

    On the other hand, Lance Stephenson is young and unrestricted. I imagine lots of teams will go after him. Lakers, Mavs, possibly the Bulls, the list goes on. But it's worth trying. He's more of a SG but he has more than enough bulk to play and defend both positions. DeMar/Stephenson/Ross could potentially be an awesome wing rotation.

    Is there enough cap space? If Lowry is re-signed, very likely not. If both Lowry and Patterson are re-signed, certainly not. In which case I'd prefer strengthening the bench with 1 year contract guys, and then once Fields/Hayes expire target the 2015 free agency, which will be very strong.

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    Super Moderator CalgaryRapsFan's Avatar
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    If the Raptors keep their 2014 1st round pick and Johnson, and re-sign Lowry (before even worrying whether any of Vasquez, Patterson and Hansborough are re-signed), free agency won't be much of an available avenue for improvement, aside from exceptions; they'll be capped-out.


    2014-15 Salaries
    DeRozan - $9.500M
    Hayes - $5.959M
    Fields - $6.250M
    Novak - $3.446M
    Valanciunas - $3.678M
    Ross - $2.794M
    Johnson - $7.000M (team option, $5M guaranteed)
    Hansborough - $3.326M (team option, $1M guaranteed)
    Salmons - $7.000M (team option, $1M guaranteed)
    Camby - $0.647M

    TOTAL (COMMITTED): $39.274M (MIN) - $49.600M (MAX)

    * $41.274M (if Johnson is kept)
    ** $43.600M (if Johnson & Hansborough are kept)

    ---

    Patterson - $4.319M (qualifying offer, $7.763M cap hold)
    Vasquez - $3.204M (qualifying offer, $3.375M cap hold)
    2014 1st round pick - likely around $1.3M (cap hold)

    TOTAL (COMMITTED & CAP HOLDS): $39.274M (MIN) - $62.038M (MAX)

    * $40.574M (if only 1st round pick is kept)
    ** $42.574M (if Johnson & 1st round pick are kept)
    *** $52.423M (if Johnson & Hansborough are kept, Patterson & Vasquez were to sign at QO, and 1st round pick is kept)


    This is all before/without re-signing Lowry.
    Last edited by CalgaryRapsFan; Wed Jan 29th, 2014 at 01:06 PM.

  10. #10
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    Quote CalgaryRapsFan wrote: View Post
    If the Raptors keep their 2014 1st round pick and re-sign Lowry (before even worrying whether any of Vasquez, Patterson and Hansborough are re-signed), free agency won't be an available avenue for improvement; they'll be capped-out.


    2014-15 Salaries
    DeRozan - $9.500M
    Hayes - $5.959M
    Fields - $6.250M
    Novak - $3.446M
    Valanciunas - $3.678M
    Ross - $2.794M
    Johnson - $7.000M (team option, $5M guaranteed)
    Hansborough - $3.326M (team option, $1M guaranteed)
    Salmons - $7.000M (team option, $1M guaranteed)
    Camby - $0.647M

    TOTAL (COMMITTED): $39.274M (MIN) - $49.600M (MAX)

    * $41.274M (if Johnson is kept)
    ** $43.600M (if Johnson & Hansborough are kept)

    ---

    Patterson - $4.319M (qualifying offer, $7.763M cap hold)
    Vasquez - $3.204M (qualifying offer, $3.375M cap hold)
    2014 1st round pick - likely around $1.3M (cap hold)

    TOTAL (COMMITTED & CAP HOLDS): $39.274M (MIN) - $62.038M (MAX)

    * $40.574M (if only 1st round pick is kept)
    ** $42.574M (if Johnson & 1st round pick are kept)
    *** $52.423M (if Johnson & Hansborough are kept, Patterson & Vasquez were to sign at QO, and 1st round pick is kept)


    This is all before/without re-signing Lowry.
    It depends on how much Ujiri likes someone. He will have options. Salmons, Vasquez and Hansbrough are all very expendable. He could also cut and stretch Fields and Hayes.

    Assuming cap is at ~62, Ujiri can have about 25 mil in cap space if Fields, Hayes, Salmons, Vasquez and Hansbrough are all cut (and Hayes / Fields are stretched). ~18 mil if Fields / Hayes are kept. That's without adding new Lowry and Patterson's salaries.

    So then it depends on who Ujiri likes and how much. If he wants to keep both Lowry /Patterson and doesn't like any free agent enough to stretch Fields / Hayes, then there's no meaningful cap space.
    In that case it would make more sense to keep Hansbrough, possibly Vasquez as well, and wait for 2015. Possibly use the midlevel exception to maybe add some bench player on a short deal.

    But if Ujiri does want to target someone like Stephenson, he could. He could stretch Hayes and Fields, he could even let Patterson go if it comes to that. In the end it's about priorities.

    I'd be ok with losing Patterson if it means a Lowry/Stephenson/DeMar/Ross rotation at 1-2-3. But Ujiri might have different views, so we will see.

  11. #11
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    Quote CalgaryRapsFan wrote: View Post
    If the Raptors keep their 2014 1st round pick and Johnson, and re-sign Lowry (before even worrying whether any of Vasquez, Patterson and Hansborough are re-signed), free agency won't be much of an available avenue for improvement, aside from exceptions; they'll be capped-out.


    2014-15 Salaries
    DeRozan - $9.500M
    Hayes - $5.959M
    Fields - $6.250M
    Novak - $3.446M
    Valanciunas - $3.678M
    Ross - $2.794M
    Johnson - $7.000M (team option, $5M guaranteed)
    Hansborough - $3.326M (team option, $1M guaranteed)
    Salmons - $7.000M (team option, $1M guaranteed)
    Camby - $0.647M

    TOTAL (COMMITTED): $39.274M (MIN) - $49.600M (MAX)

    * $41.274M (if Johnson is kept)
    ** $43.600M (if Johnson & Hansborough are kept)

    ---

    Patterson - $4.319M (qualifying offer, $7.763M cap hold)
    Vasquez - $3.204M (qualifying offer, $3.375M cap hold)
    2014 1st round pick - likely around $1.3M (cap hold)

    TOTAL (COMMITTED & CAP HOLDS): $39.274M (MIN) - $62.038M (MAX)

    * $40.574M (if only 1st round pick is kept)
    ** $42.574M (if Johnson & 1st round pick are kept)
    *** $52.423M (if Johnson & Hansborough are kept, Patterson & Vasquez were to sign at QO, and 1st round pick is kept)


    This is all before/without re-signing Lowry.
    You are missing:

    Austin Daye: $1.063M (250k guaranteed)
    Roster slot holds for your minimum and "if only 1st" and "if only first and Johnson" cases.

    Assuming Johnson stays (because it would be crazy to waive him just to save 2M and have 5M of dead weight on the cap), all numbers assuming Lowry walks / eats into the cap space when signed:

    Minimum (with draft pick): $44.853M
    With TH; Patterson and GV on QO's: $53.180M

    Cap projects to 62.9M right now.

  12. #12
    Super Moderator CalgaryRapsFan's Avatar
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    Quote DanH wrote: View Post
    You are missing:

    Austin Daye: $1.063M (250k guaranteed)
    Roster slot holds for your minimum and "if only 1st" and "if only first and Johnson" cases.

    Assuming Johnson stays (because it would be crazy to waive him just to save 2M and have 5M of dead weight on the cap), all numbers assuming Lowry walks / eats into the cap space when signed:

    Minimum (with draft pick): $44.853M
    With TH; Patterson and GV on QO's: $53.180M

    Cap projects to 62.9M right now.
    I didn't realize Daye had any guaranteed money for next season. Lucky us! lol

    Thanks for the update


    It will be interesting to see if any moves are made this year (before deadline or at/after draft), specifically with Novak, Hansborough and Salmons.

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    I think the path to us getting better is not necessarily free agency. Masai likes four year deals at a reasonable rate. Contracts done that way are easily tradeable. I.E. If you give Lowry 4 years 44 million and a market for PGs opens up in the next two years you have a great asset. I would look at the Nene contract for an idea of how MU will make us better.

  14. #14
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    By having pretty much the same roster, switching Daye by a 1st rounder and sign 1 or 2 good backups, this team could only be better next year. I think it's in 2015 that a big change will be made.

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    Raptors Republic Hall of Famer mcHAPPY's Avatar
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    Reality is the Raptors are not very deep right now so they need help everywhere.

    Obviously three ways to upgrade: draft, free agency, and trades.

    Draft:
    Always best player available, but targeting PG would be nice: Ennis, LaVine, Micic, Carson. If they can trade up and get Smart or Exum - great - but I'm thinking 15-19 pick.


    Free Agency:
    If the goal is to keep getting better from here, then Lowry and Patterson need to be resigned.
    I would be looking for value contracts to fill out the roster similar to Hansbrough this year.
    I like Jordan Hamilton and Al-Farouq Aminu.


    Trades:
    There is a forum for that. So many variables who knows. Outside of the pieces everyone would want to keep, what do the Raptors have to trade? Hayes, Fields, Novak? I'm weary of returns. Salmons contract is an interesting piece.


    Last need left to address: back up C.
    Maybe trade Salmons for Perkins and another 1st - preferably Dallas?
    How much will Spencer Hayes be? Jordan Hill? Ayon?
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    Raptors Republic All-Star slaw's Avatar
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    Reality is the Raptors are not very deep right now so they need help everywhere.
    Not sure about the depth part. They have serviceable backups at the PG, PF and wing spots in Patterson, Vazquez, and Salmons. Even if you assume the latter 2 won't be back, it won't be rocket science to replace them. They have a couple picks and can sign low-hanging fruit to fill out the roster. But if their focus is the balance of your post I will be extremely disappointed.

    Seems to me that the issue here is still the question of whether there is enough elite talent on board. I'd love to see the focus being on brining in a tier one player alongside the majority of what they currently have.

  17. #17
    Raptors Republic Hall of Famer mcHAPPY's Avatar
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    Quote slaw wrote: View Post
    Not sure about the depth part. They have serviceable backups at the PG, PF and wing spots in Patterson, Vazquez, and Salmons. Even if you assume the latter 2 won't be back, it won't be rocket science to replace them. They have a couple picks and can sign low-hanging fruit to fill out the roster. But if their focus is the balance of your post I will be extremely disappointed.

    Seems to me that the issue here is still the question of whether there is enough elite talent on board. I'd love to see the focus being on brining in a tier one player alongside the majority of what they currently have.
    If Lowry goes down to injuries, Raps are screwed at PG. Even if Vasquez goes down **shudder**

    With DeRozan down, we're seeing team is not very deep. Novak? Fields? Daye?

    Hansbrough is injured and we're seeing a lot more of Hayes than a team should.

    There is no true backup C. Hayes is the closest but I have an issue calling a 6'6" guy a C.


    I disagree on depth it is why I'm all for cheaper value contracts at this time.
    "Championships are what we live for, now lets go win them."
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    Basketball has clear winners every night --
    except at the draft, which is all homework, politics and chance.

  18. #18
    Raptors Republic Hall of Famer mcHAPPY's Avatar
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    Quote Matt52 wrote: View Post
    Reality is the Raptors are not very deep right now so they need help everywhere.

    Obviously three ways to upgrade: draft, free agency, and trades.

    Draft:
    Always best player available, but targeting PG would be nice: Ennis, LaVine, Micic, Carson. If they can trade up and get Smart or Exum - great - but I'm thinking 15-19 pick.


    Free Agency:
    If the goal is to keep getting better from here, then Lowry and Patterson need to be resigned.
    I would be looking for value contracts to fill out the roster similar to Hansbrough this year.
    I like Jordan Hamilton and Al-Farouq Aminu.


    Trades:
    There is a forum for that. So many variables who knows. Outside of the pieces everyone would want to keep, what do the Raptors have to trade? Hayes, Fields, Novak? I'm weary of returns. Salmons contract is an interesting piece.


    Last need left to address: back up C.
    Maybe trade Salmons for Perkins and another 1st - preferably Dallas?
    How much will Spencer Hayes be? Jordan Hill? Ayon?
    When you look at the how Vasquez is used with Casey, Jimmer Freddette I think would be a good option. Vasquez shoots more than he passes. Jimmer can certainly shoot.
    "Championships are what we live for, now lets go win them."
    Tim Leiweke

    Basketball has clear winners every night --
    except at the draft, which is all homework, politics and chance.

  19. #19
    Raptors Republic All-Star Mediumcore's Avatar
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    If Clevland doesn't finish the season strong, Deng may bolt for a more competetive team.

  20. #20
    Raptors Republic Hall of Famer mcHAPPY's Avatar
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    Quote Mediumcore wrote: View Post
    If Clevland doesn't finish the season strong, Deng may bolt for a more competetive team.
    I think Deng ends up in LA, personally.

    Remember when Kobe was nearly dealt to the Bulls? A big part of that never happening was Deng was going back to Lakers in package and Kobe wanted Deng. I think that mutual respect has lasted through the years.

    100% pure speculation on my part.
    "Championships are what we live for, now lets go win them."
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    Basketball has clear winners every night --
    except at the draft, which is all homework, politics and chance.

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