View Poll Results: Which Raptors player(s) will be selected as All-Star reserves?

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59. You may not vote on this poll
  • DeRozan

    9 15.25%
  • Lowry

    18 30.51%
  • DeRozan AND Lowry

    32 54.24%
  • None/Other

    0 0%
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Thread: All-Star Reserves - Congratulations DeMar DeRozan!

  1. #401
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    Quote special1 wrote: View Post
    Not sure you understand that these discussions are going way back (since last year). However, since you may be new here.....I agree that EVERY player has flaws. I just think its fair that some of the posters who talked the most shit, get called out for it.
    Aren't you taking this all too personally? Many players have detractors or supporters of not just their play but personalities as well. It is almost always an opinion. You seem to be taking it much beyond.

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  3. #402
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    Quote rocwell wrote: View Post
    @Scraptor

    DeMar hasn't improved defensively. He's gambling more, but nothing else has changed. ( sometimes you can tell that he's playing defense without effort. driving me crazy. )

    DeRozan is our 2nd liability after JV.
    I disagree.

    Demar's Synergy stats (which reflect man defense better, which is important for wings) have improved considerably.

    He is ranked 34th overall in PPP on defense.
    Isolation? 1st overall.
    P&R ball handler, 17th
    Spot up, 46th
    Off screen 55th.

    The one I want to focus in on is spot up. This has traditionally been Demar's Achilles heel in Synergy stats. According to raptorshq, which is the only reference I could find, Demar ranked 273rd last season in spot up situations. To move up to 46th is a massive improvement.

    Because of his lack of lateral quicks he often gave too much of a cushion to shooters. He also tended to lose his man on screens. We see much less of that lately. We see him contesting shots with vigor, we see him recovering better as well.

    If you don't see improvement, then it's because you choose not to see. And that is all the defending I'm going to do in a thread which should celebrate improvements like this instead of picking at every tiny fault.

    PS. To show you how far he's come, here are some comparisons from Demar in March 2011:
    Overall 336th
    Iso 185th
    P&R ball handler 185th
    Spot up 184th
    Off screen 78th

  4. #403
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    Quote Scraptor wrote: View Post
    I disagree.

    Demar's Synergy stats (which reflect man defense better, which is important for wings) have improved considerably.

    He is ranked 34th overall in PPP on defense.
    Isolation? 1st overall.
    P&R ball handler, 17th
    Spot up, 46th
    Off screen 55th.

    The one I want to focus in on is spot up. This has traditionally been Demar's Achilles heel in Synergy stats. According to raptorshq, which is the only reference I could find, Demar ranked 273rd last season in spot up situations. To move up to 46th is a massive improvement.

    Because of his lack of lateral quicks he often gave too much of a cushion to shooters. He also tended to lose his man on screens. We see much less of that lately. We see him contesting shots with vigor, we see him recovering better as well.

    If you don't see improvement, then it's because you choose not to see. And that is all the defending I'm going to do in a thread which should celebrate improvements like this instead of picking at every tiny fault.

    PS. To show you how far he's come, here are some comparisons from Demar in March 2011:
    Overall 336th
    Iso 185th
    P&R ball handler 185th
    Spot up 184th
    Off screen 78th
    Also note that DD is no longer guarding the opposing team's best player. This may account for some of his statistical improvement. But yes he has definitely improved defensively.

  5. #404
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    Quote Scraptor wrote: View Post
    I disagree.

    Demar's Synergy stats (which reflect man defense better, which is important for wings) have improved considerably.

    He is ranked 34th overall in PPP on defense.
    Isolation? 1st overall.
    P&R ball handler, 17th
    Spot up, 46th
    Off screen 55th.

    The one I want to focus in on is spot up. This has traditionally been Demar's Achilles heel in Synergy stats. According to raptorshq, which is the only reference I could find, Demar ranked 273rd last season in spot up situations. To move up to 46th is a massive improvement.

    Because of his lack of lateral quicks he often gave too much of a cushion to shooters. He also tended to lose his man on screens. We see much less of that lately. We see him contesting shots with vigor, we see him recovering better as well.

    If you don't see improvement, then it's because you choose not to see. And that is all the defending I'm going to do in a thread which should celebrate improvements like this instead of picking at every tiny fault.

    PS. To show you how far he's come, here are some comparisons from Demar in March 2011:
    Overall 336th
    Iso 185th
    P&R ball handler 185th
    Spot up 184th
    Off screen 78th
    Great post, I love to see this synergy stuff used.

  6. #405
    Super Moderator ReubenJRD's Avatar
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    Quote Scraptor wrote: View Post
    I disagree.

    Demar's Synergy stats (which reflect man defense better, which is important for wings) have improved considerably.

    He is ranked 34th overall in PPP on defense.
    Isolation? 1st overall.
    P&R ball handler, 17th
    Spot up, 46th
    Off screen 55th.

    The one I want to focus in on is spot up. This has traditionally been Demar's Achilles heel in Synergy stats. According to raptorshq, which is the only reference I could find, Demar ranked 273rd last season in spot up situations. To move up to 46th is a massive improvement.

    Because of his lack of lateral quicks he often gave too much of a cushion to shooters. He also tended to lose his man on screens. We see much less of that lately. We see him contesting shots with vigor, we see him recovering better as well.

    If you don't see improvement, then it's because you choose not to see. And that is all the defending I'm going to do in a thread which should celebrate improvements like this instead of picking at every tiny fault.

    PS. To show you how far he's come, here are some comparisons from Demar in March 2011:
    Overall 336th
    Iso 185th
    P&R ball handler 185th
    Spot up 184th
    Off screen 78th
    You could also use the comparison of production rating of DeMar's to opposition and the net rating, and DeMar has nearly as much/more net rating to guys like Afflalo, Ellis, Harden, etc.

  7. #406
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    Quote Scraptor wrote: View Post
    I disagree.

    Demar's Synergy stats (which reflect man defense better, which is important for wings) have improved considerably.

    He is ranked 34th overall in PPP on defense.
    Isolation? 1st overall.
    P&R ball handler, 17th
    Spot up, 46th
    Off screen 55th.

    The one I want to focus in on is spot up. This has traditionally been Demar's Achilles heel in Synergy stats. According to raptorshq, which is the only reference I could find, Demar ranked 273rd last season in spot up situations. To move up to 46th is a massive improvement.

    Because of his lack of lateral quicks he often gave too much of a cushion to shooters. He also tended to lose his man on screens. We see much less of that lately. We see him contesting shots with vigor, we see him recovering better as well.

    If you don't see improvement, then it's because you choose not to see. And that is all the defending I'm going to do in a thread which should celebrate improvements like this instead of picking at every tiny fault.

    PS. To show you how far he's come, here are some comparisons from Demar in March 2011:
    Overall 336th
    Iso 185th
    P&R ball handler 185th
    Spot up 184th
    Off screen 78th
    I agree DeMar has improved.

    But his consistency is still atrocious, and I think these stats overstate things a bit as he's still generally guarding the least talented of the other team's perimeter players. Ross often takes the tougher matchup, and Gay did before that, and Anderson before that, and Johnson before that......

    That's not a huge knock. I still think DeMar isn't a weak link anymore when he's engaged. But I've also seen him be a turnstile more than once this year.

    I've also seen pretty bad efforts from he, Kyle and before he was traded, Rudy, in terms of fighting through screens. And nights where guys are getting into the lane far too easily, making life very hard on our bigs who are scrambling to cover up their mistakes.

    I would like DeMar's D to be consistent. I had the same complaint about his rebounding even in the first month of this season. He turned that around, so I hope his D comes around too in the long-run.

  8. #407
    Raptors Republic Hall of Famer mcHAPPY's Avatar
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    Quote Scraptor wrote: View Post
    I disagree.

    Demar's Synergy stats (which reflect man defense better, which is important for wings) have improved considerably.

    He is ranked 34th overall in PPP on defense.
    Isolation? 1st overall.
    P&R ball handler, 17th
    Spot up, 46th
    Off screen 55th.


    The one I want to focus in on is spot up. This has traditionally been Demar's Achilles heel in Synergy stats. According to raptorshq, which is the only reference I could find, Demar ranked 273rd last season in spot up situations. To move up to 46th is a massive improvement.

    Because of his lack of lateral quicks he often gave too much of a cushion to shooters. He also tended to lose his man on screens. We see much less of that lately. We see him contesting shots with vigor, we see him recovering better as well.

    If you don't see improvement, then it's because you choose not to see. And that is all the defending I'm going to do in a thread which should celebrate improvements like this instead of picking at every tiny fault.

    PS. To show you how far he's come, here are some comparisons from Demar in March 2011:
    Overall 336th
    Iso 185th
    P&R ball handler 185th
    Spot up 184th
    Off screen 78th
    What is the time frame of this data?

    What is the sample size?

    Is it positional?
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    except at the draft, which is all homework, politics and chance.

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    Quote CalgaryRapsFan wrote: View Post
    I will fully admit that there is one area that DeRozan has shown improvement in this season, in terms of both production and consistency - peripheral stats. DeRozan is helping on the glass and doing a better job of finding open teammates in DC's revamped team-oriented offensive system. His rebounds are +1.0 over his career average and assists are +1.6.

    However, of the 5 key criticisms I've made against him since the offseason, that's really the only one he's shown sustained improvement it.
    1. one-dimensional scorer
    2. inefficient scorer & poor shot selection
    3. poor 3pt shooter
    4. average (at best) defender
    5. not a legit SF (preferring SG to be a '3&D' type player - aka Ross)


    Pointing out that the other areas of criticism are still valid (#2-#5), is not "hate". He's a good young player with key areas of his game that still have significant room for improvement. Yes, he's an all-star. Yes, he's not perfect. No, that's not being a "hater".

    Seriously, the world is not so black & white, and there's nothing wrong with pushing one of the team's best players to continue getting better.

    Finally, if all the middling EC teams that are hovering around the .500 level deserved a single all-star representative, Lowry is far more deserving that DeRozan IMO. Personally, I think they both should have been named reserves!
    So, you mention his improved rebounding, and play making, but they weren't on your list of areas he had to improve upon? Really? You weren't saying he was nothing but an inefficient scorer? hmmmm, okay. But you were previously critical that he isn't a "legit SF"? Really? When did he start being viewed as an SF rather than a SG? I find this claim of historical criticism a little off base, so that seems to leave only #2, and that's debatable unless you know more about the coach's directions in the offensive schemes than I do. I do know that he has become far less of a chucker, and as you point out, does much more to make plays and find his teammates, and that goes way beyond mere assist numbers.

    Pushing him? I believe it's very evident that one of his great attributes is that he does a very good job of that himself, and I doubt he looks to RR for his inspiration. He certainly can make improvements, but based on his determination and work ethic, is there still serious doubt that he won't? Shit, there was an incredible amount of "he is what he is", "there will be no marked improvement from him" expertise thrown around here for months. Now that he's proven all of that wrong, the same people are now trying to nitpick him at the very moment he gets an all-star nod?

    Incredible. I wonder. Has anyone who is trying their best to "qualify" his all star selection as something less than normal, also qualified other all -star selections of the past, when claiming we have no all-stars, or that DD will never be one? This downplaying of his selection, and value to this team (not you individually, but a certain collective thing), seems more about stubborn "my shtick is being right", a la Tim W, than it is about "pushing" DD.

  10. #409
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    Quote OldSkoolCool wrote: View Post
    Also note that DD is no longer guarding the opposing team's best player. This may account for some of his statistical improvement. But yes he has definitely improved defensively.
    Bold: when did he ever do that?

  11. #410
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    Quote salmon wrote: View Post
    So, you mention his improved rebounding, and play making, but they weren't on your list of areas he had to improve upon? Really? You weren't saying he was nothing but an inefficient scorer? hmmmm, okay. But you were previously critical that he isn't a "legit SF"? Really? When did he start being viewed as an SF rather than a SG? I find this claim of historical criticism a little off base, so that seems to leave only #2, and that's debatable unless you know more about the coach's directions in the offensive schemes than I do. I do know that he has become far less of a chucker, and as you point out, does much more to make plays and find his teammates, and that goes way beyond mere assist numbers.

    Pushing him? I believe it's very evident that one of his great attributes is that he does a very good job of that himself, and I doubt he looks to RR for his inspiration. He certainly can make improvements, but based on his determination and work ethic, is there still serious doubt that he won't? Shit, there was an incredible amount of "he is what he is", "there will be no marked improvement from him" expertise thrown around here for months. Now that he's proven all of that wrong, the same people are now trying to nitpick him at the very moment he gets an all-star nod?

    Incredible. I wonder. Has anyone who is trying their best to "qualify" his all star selection as something less than normal, also qualified other all -star selections of the past, when claiming we have no all-stars, or that DD will never be one? This downplaying of his selection, and value to this team (not you individually, but a certain collective thing), seems more about stubborn "my shtick is being right", a la Tim W, than it is about "pushing" DD.
    1st bold
    - I thought I was pretty clear that those improvements addressed #1 (one-dimensional scorer). I gave him full credit for those improvements, in terms of both production and consistency.

    2nd bold
    - I have given DeRozan plenty of praise and indicated long before the announcement of reserves, that I felt he and Lowry were both deserving. Despite my criticisms, I still believe he rightfully earned his spot (though yes, he would be #2 on the Raptors behind Lowry, in my books). The only reason any of this has been rehashed is because of the inflammatory personal attacks that were issued against me and others by special1, seemingly indicating that being named to the all-star team meant that DeRozan was now above any criticism and that all previous criticisms were null and void. I'm sorry, that's just not the case. He's a good scorer, but not an efficient scorer. His 3pt shooting started better (again) but has dropped off, getting much closer to his career average. His defense isn't great, but I understand that is somewhat subjective and debatable. The SF point is more a personal preference, rather than a true criticism. The only reason I raised any of these points was because I was simply responding to an unprovoked personal attack.

    3rd bold
    - I fully admit I was wrong on this and give full credit to DeRozan (though the health of Rose, Rondo and Dwill may have had some influence)
    Last edited by CalgaryRapsFan; Fri Jan 31st, 2014 at 12:32 PM.

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  13. #411
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    Quote Scraptor wrote: View Post
    I disagree.

    Demar's Synergy stats (which reflect man defense better, which is important for wings) have improved considerably.

    He is ranked 34th overall in PPP on defense.
    Isolation? 1st overall.
    P&R ball handler, 17th
    Spot up, 46th
    Off screen 55th.

    The one I want to focus in on is spot up. This has traditionally been Demar's Achilles heel in Synergy stats. According to raptorshq, which is the only reference I could find, Demar ranked 273rd last season in spot up situations. To move up to 46th is a massive improvement.

    Because of his lack of lateral quicks he often gave too much of a cushion to shooters. He also tended to lose his man on screens. We see much less of that lately. We see him contesting shots with vigor, we see him recovering better as well.

    If you don't see improvement, then it's because you choose not to see. And that is all the defending I'm going to do in a thread which should celebrate improvements like this instead of picking at every tiny fault.

    PS. To show you how far he's come, here are some comparisons from Demar in March 2011:
    Overall 336th
    Iso 185th
    P&R ball handler 185th
    Spot up 184th
    Off screen 78th
    Great stuff! If one actually watches the games, and knows what they see beyond nitpicking a play here or there (EVERYBODY gets beat), one should not really need stats to see it, but the naysayers that can only swallow so much humble pie (my shtick is being right) will come at you on this, as already seen. Man, a guy on your team gets an all star selection, and poo poo platters are served up. Incredible.

  14. #412
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    Quote Matt52 wrote: View Post
    What is the time frame of this data?

    What is the sample size?

    Is it positional?
    Year to date, which is more than half a season. I have included the largest sample size categories. Hand offs, for instance, are very small. It is not positional, it is league wide. So these numbers are very solid. Unfortunately synergy doesn't let free users go into its archives so you have to dig for references for historical data, but you can always find the current year to date at http://www.mysynergysports.com

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  16. #413
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    Quote Scraptor wrote: View Post
    Year to date, which is more than half a season. I have included the largest sample size categories. Hand offs, for instance, are very small. It is not positional, it is league wide. So these numbers are very solid. Unfortunately synergy doesn't let free users go into its archives so you have to dig for references for historical data, but you can always find the current year to date at http://www.mysynergysports.com
    Thanks.
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    Seriously guys, there is definitely areas in his game that Demar still has to improve on but right now in this thread is not really the place to discuss it.
    I don't know about you guys, but I'm so happy we have an all-star on our squad, who we drafted and who got there on his own, regardless of all the different coaches and teammates he's gone through.
    "You clearly don't know who you're talking to, so let me clue you in: I am not in danger, Skyler. I am the danger. A guy opens his door and gets shot, and you think that of me? No! I am the one who knocks!"

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  19. #415
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    Quote joey_hesketh wrote: View Post
    All a bunch of Haters. Go drink your Haterade.

    I love you Demar!! You're perfect just the way you are!!

    ....

    But seriously, as I said earlier, its unfortunate that people can't take a day off from pointing out where Demar needs to improve, and instead point out where he has improved himself year in and year out, and just appreciate him for what he's brought to this team. Sure Kyle deserved a shot. More than Demar? Maybe. Definitely more than Joe Johnson. As did Demar. So don't pit them against each other, pit them against JJ.

    No its not hating, but it gets to be tiresome constantly having to read how our own fans, feel our own homebred All-Star shouldn't even be an All-Star.
    This.
    "You clearly don't know who you're talking to, so let me clue you in: I am not in danger, Skyler. I am the danger. A guy opens his door and gets shot, and you think that of me? No! I am the one who knocks!"

    - Walter White

  20. #416
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    Myself, I was specifically referring to the TNT guys, not coaches.

    As for the coaches themselves, who knows what they're thinking. From what I understand, there aren't enough hours in the day for them to do their real jobs, so it wouldnt surprise me if they give this little to no thought. Or just pawn it off to an assistant.
    Last edited by JimiCliff; Fri Jan 31st, 2014 at 07:30 PM.

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    Quote joey_hesketh wrote: View Post
    All a bunch of Haters. Go drink your Haterade.

    I love you Demar!! You're perfect just the way you are!!

    ....

    But seriously, as I said earlier, its unfortunate that people can't take a day off from pointing out where Demar needs to improve, and instead point out where he has improved himself year in and year out, and just appreciate him for what he's brought to this team. Sure Kyle deserved a shot. More than Demar? Maybe. Definitely more than Joe Johnson. As did Demar. So don't pit them against each other, pit them against JJ.

    No its not hating, but it gets to be tiresome constantly having to read how our own fans, feel our own homebred All-Star shouldn't even be an All-Star.
    If I could thank this post 1000x over I would. I find it a bit ridiculous and sad that some Raptors "fans" continue to knock on DeRo even as he is being selected to the All Star team. For fucks sake can we not cut out the criticisms for one day. This is a time to celebrate one of our own making the AS team. Some of y'all acting like DD doesn't deserve it or that AS selections come around every year for Raptors players. Don't take it for granted my dudes. We all know his weaknesses but methinks this is not the time to rehash that discussion for the millionth time. This is good times man, enjoy.

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    Quote .40 Cal Flakes wrote: View Post
    If I could thank this post 1000x over I would. I find it a bit ridiculous and sad that some Raptors "fans" continue to knock on DeRo even as he is being selected to the All Star team. For fucks sake can we not cut out the criticisms for one day. This is a time to celebrate one of our own making the AS team. Some of y'all acting like DD doesn't deserve it or that AS selections come around every year for Raptors players. Don't take it for granted my dudes. We all know his weaknesses but methinks this is not the time to rehash that discussion for the millionth time. This is good times man, enjoy.
    DeRo...I like that!!

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  24. #419
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    Quote KeonClark wrote: View Post
    Wow, you really want to be an all star!

    Don't think you can compare becoming a doctor to getting named to the all star team. Getting drafted into the NBA or playing your first game is a much more apt comparison to being knighted or getting your doctorate. Being named to the all star game is like getting doctor of the year for San Vernando Valley.
    It's about the title man.
    Once you're an all-star - even if it's only one season - you're an all-star.
    People will refer to you as an all-star from that point on.

    You know what that does for a guy's image?
    Remember, it's a business.
    Being an all-star is very, very important to these guys.

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    Quote JawsGT wrote: View Post
    DeRo...I like that!!
    Tuck yo chain, DeRo coming!!

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