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  • #61
    Just Is wrote: View Post
    Do you only post to talk smack about Lowry? Cause, honestly... its getting REAL weird.

    I agree with the "Irving is overrated" crowd here. While, yes, the Cavs management hasn't done him any favours in terms of roster personal outside of Luol Deng, he still hasn't shown the ability to make even one teammate of his better. Thats not to say he's not a good or even very good player. He's just not great and might (barely) currently be a top 5 point guard in the East right now under Lowry, Wall, Teague and Hill.
    Haha Wiggins is a nutter.
    Right now Lowry is not only better than Kyrie, he's much better.

    Kyrie, so far, is just a talented, selfish kid who doesn't know how to win.
    You could say the Cavs haven't put him a position to win (true), but he also hasn't put his team-mates in a position to win.
    Selfish PGs are very close to useless - selfish PGs that don't play defense ARE useless.
    He's a liability.

    Kyrie is easily the most over-rated player in the NBA.
    That's not to say he doesn't have talent, but he is not using it.

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    • #62
      white men can't jump wrote: View Post
      Wow, ok there Mr Troll.

      Guys who are as talented or close enough to Irving and who I'd take over him in a heartbeat....either because of being better leaders, better 2-way players, getting more out of their teammates, etc...

      -Paul
      -Curry
      -Parker
      -Lawson
      -Lowry
      -Bledsoe
      -Wall

      If injuries are taken out of the picture these guys are obvious choices
      -Rose
      -Rondo
      -Westbrook

      Honourable mentions who I might take but not sure it'd be hands down....
      -Jeff Teague
      -Jrue Holiday
      -Goran Dragic

      Now, very few of these guys are equally/more talented than Irving. Pretty much all have shown more desirable play from the PG position. You can definitely put some blame on coaching/management....but you can also look at the players, who their supposed leader is, and figure they deserve their fair share of blame.
      Good list.

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      • #63
        Right now Kyle Lowry is miles ahead of Irving in terms of Leadership, Defense, Poise, but This is Lowry's prime and he isn't getting any better so if there was a scenario in which we could get a 21 year old good young PG who is overrated without giving up JV or Ross I'd do it because Kyrie has a lot of flaws but he is only 21 and can and should improve! Also Cleveland is a horrible place to grow young players
        "Both teams played hard my man" - Sheed

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        • #64
          white men can't jump wrote: View Post
          I view him as a Baron Davis type dude. Can be a top 5 PG when healthy and happy. Can be a useless fat fuck the rest of the time.

          And holy crap, he managed to get Jerry Sloan out of Utah....

          This guy was pretty disappointed too...


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          • #65
            no one here can disagree with how great lowry is playing. but are u guys kidding me? lowry is better then irving? Never.

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            • #66
              Evia99 wrote: View Post
              no one here can disagree with how great lowry is playing. but are u guys kidding me? lowry is better then irving? Never.
              Depends what you mean by "better". If we're strictly talking about the 2013-14 season, then yes, Lowry is better.

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              • #67
                Evia99 wrote: View Post
                no one here can disagree with how great lowry is playing. but are u guys kidding me? lowry is better then irving? Never.
                I don't understand why this is a discussion.
                Irving plays the worst defense of any starting PG in the league.
                Lowry is better, it's simple.
                A lot of guys are better.

                The only thing Irving does better right now is excite.

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                • #68
                  Nilanka wrote: View Post
                  Depends what you mean by "better". If we're strictly talking about the 2013-14 season, then yes, Lowry is better.
                  just overall talent. lets say for arguments sake that lowry started the season with Cleveland. does he make them a playoff team? no way. where as irving with this group of raptors post gay trade would continue to be a playoff team with a more dangerous player

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                  • #69
                    Shrub wrote: View Post
                    I don't understand why this is a discussion.
                    Irving plays the worst defense of any starting PG in the league.
                    Lowry is better, it's simple.
                    A lot of guys are better.

                    The only thing Irving does better right now is excite.
                    Fair enough, that's your opinion. But you're also making an irrelevant comparison because if you trade for Irving then who is better right now doesn't matter at all. The real question is whether Lowry right now is better than what Kyrie has the potential to be once he gets his shit together.

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                    • #70
                      Lark Benson wrote: View Post
                      Fair enough, that's your opinion. But you're also making an irrelevant comparison because if you trade for Irving then who is better right now doesn't matter at all. The real question is whether Lowry right now is better than what Kyrie has the potential to be once he gets his shit together.
                      I'm not talking about a trade, more just chiming in on Kyrie being over-rated.

                      A trade is a whole other issue, and a much more delicate one.
                      I wouldn't trade for Irving because of what it would do to the chemistry.
                      It would stunt the growth of all of our young players, and eviscerate the team-first attitude we've established, not to mention that it brings in a player that does not appear to care much for defense.
                      Does that force our hand on firing Casey?

                      To me, it is not a sensible gamble.
                      If Lowry can keep up his current play, I wouldn't ask for more.

                      Comment


                      • #71
                        Evia99 wrote: View Post
                        just overall talent. lets say for arguments sake that lowry started the season with Cleveland. does he make them a playoff team? no way. where as irving with this group of raptors post gay trade would continue to be a playoff team with a more dangerous player
                        If anything, this thought experiment tells us they're equal. That is, replacing one with the other, and each team being exactly the same as today.

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                        • #72
                          Nilanka wrote: View Post
                          If anything, this thought experiment tells us they're equal. That is, replacing one with the other, and each team being exactly the same as today.
                          lol. I guess ur right. let me correct it. cleveland with lowry would still suck where as irving with raptors would be way better.

                          Comment


                          • #73
                            Shrub wrote: View Post
                            I'm not talking about a trade, more just chiming in on Kyrie being over-rated.

                            A trade is a whole other issue, and a much more delicate one.
                            I wouldn't trade for Irving because of what it would do to the chemistry.
                            It would stunt the growth of all of our young players, and eviscerate the team-first attitude we've established
                            , not to mention that it brings in a player that does not appear to care much for defense.
                            Does that force our hand on firing Casey?

                            To me, it is not a sensible gamble.
                            If Lowry can keep up his current play, I wouldn't ask for more.
                            That's a whole lotta speculation. And again, could easily have said the same thing about Lowry coming in last year, and early on it looked like his past reputation was going to repeat itself. But he turned it around this year. So why is it you're willing to give Lowry the benefit of the doubt based on a small sample size of play this year but also willing to throw Irving under the bus based on an equally small sample size.

                            If you have any kind of faith that the organization you support can develop players and get guys to play the right way (which I think we've seen evidence of with the Raps), then this should be a non-issue.

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                            • #74
                              Evia99 wrote: View Post
                              lol. I guess ur right. let me correct it. cleveland with lowry would still suck where as irving with raptors would be way better.
                              In terms of talent/potential ceiling, I would agree.

                              I just wonder if Kyrie would fit here in terms of chemistry. This Raptors roster couldn't possibly be more in tune with each other right now. They're playing like they've been together for years.

                              Comment


                              • #75
                                thead wrote: View Post
                                one of the key elements i look for in a player is character...Irving is not a player I want around
                                Meant to quote this and not to like it.

                                Keep in mind that Irving is 21. Lowry took 7 seasons to "mature" into the leader we see today. He has fought with teammates in practice, clashed with coaches, been called out in players only meetings, etc. To give up on a 21 year old kid with the type of talent that Irving has would be a huge mistake, in my opinion.

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