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Thread: Kyrie Irving.

  1. #41
    Raptors Republic All-Star JawsGT's Avatar
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    Quote Nilanka wrote: View Post
    Really? I don't hear much praise for Kemba.

    Rubio gets my vote.
    Agreed. Rubio, I think, is probably the only thing that is wrong with Minny. They have top 10 defence and offence, I do believe, as well as a positive points differential. They really should be winning more games, but when defences can just sag off a ball dominant PG like Rubio, then it becomes increasingly difficult to score as a team when you're PG can't make the defence pay for leaving him open. It's too bad really, they have a pretty good lineup that would look much better than they do if only their PG could shoot.

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  3. #42
    Raptors Republic Veteran white men can't jump's Avatar
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    Quote ceez wrote: View Post
    For most overrated PG i'm going with Deron Williams

    All the talent in the world but dude's a maroon
    I view him as a Baron Davis type dude. Can be a top 5 PG when healthy and happy. Can be a useless fat fuck the rest of the time.

    And holy crap, he managed to get Jerry Sloan out of Utah....

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    Super Moderator ReubenJRD's Avatar
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    Quote Wiggins wrote: View Post
    omfg who is better than kyrie irving that he's overrated?
    you kids need to look up the meanings of these big words you're throwing around.
    wait don't tell me. kyle lowry is better than kyrie irving right? ROFL i don't even have the words.
    Answer my question:

    Where is Cleveland with Kyrie Irving as the top dog? He's a great player, right? RIGHT? Because crossovers and +20 point games are what define greatness in this league.

    By no means is Kyle Lowry better than Kyrie Irving; Irving is miles head more skilled, and a more talented basketball player. But, Lowry is a leader, his production and his abilities are the reason why this Raptor team is anywhere in the top of playoff picture.

    Irving is an awful point guard. He does not look for his teammates as much as he should (and he should, because Cleveland has some really good talent), he's obviously a shoot-first point guard (nothing wrong with that, but no balance whatsoever i.e. Jerryd Bayless-like) and isn't anywhere near mature or a leader.

    Look, at the end of the day, if Kyrie Irving were to come to Toronto, I'd accept him with open arms, he's a wonderful talent! But, he's not that player that is advertised all across the league. In the NBA, it's more then just an outside court full of scrubs *cough* Uncle Drew *cough*.

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    Raptors Republic Hall of Famer mcHAPPY's Avatar
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    Quote Lark Benson wrote: View Post
    This. Brown somehow has a good reputation because he had LeBron for a while.
    And he came from San Antonio.
    "Championships are what we live for, now lets go win them."
    Tim Leiweke

    Basketball has clear winners every night --
    except at the draft, which is all homework, politics and chance.

  7. #45
    Super Moderator ReubenJRD's Avatar
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    Quote Nilanka wrote: View Post
    Really? I don't hear much praise for Kemba.

    Rubio gets my vote.
    Overrated point guard? Tough one, there are a TON in the league. Deron Williams is one. John Wall is arguable. Brandon Jennings is awful. Jrue Holiday in my opinion is overrated.

  8. #46
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    Just as a random scenario, here's why I'd throw a DeRozan and picks package at Cleveland just to see if they'd bite: You could go into next year with Irving, Ross, Patterson and Val, then sign Deng as a FA. That's a solid team with a ton of room to grow that all fit well together. It'll never happen, but I'd swap that team for the one we've got in a hearbeat.

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  10. #47
    Raptors Republic Superstar planetmars's Avatar
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    Quote Lark Benson wrote: View Post
    Just as a random scenario, here's why I'd throw a DeRozan and picks package at Cleveland just to see if they'd bite: You could go into next year with Irving, Ross, Patterson and Val, then sign Deng as a FA. That's a solid team with a ton of room to grow that all fit well together. It'll never happen, but I'd swap that team for the one we've got in a hearbeat.
    I'm not sure how much of a picks package would make Cleveland happy since they've been tanking for so long.. but I'd definitely consider anyone on the team not named Jonas available in a trade for Kyrie.

  11. #48
    Raptors Republic All-Star JawsGT's Avatar
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    Lowry might be one of the most underrated PG's. At the moment, if I had to chose I would take Lowry by a long shot. Now, I hesitate to make that call for all the obvious reasons. Lowry hasn't really shown the type of play he is currently showing before in his career (maybe a little in Houston?). It's a contract year, he is older etc etc. And, of course, only time will tell if Lowry can or will sustain this type of effort and production.

    But Lowry, although he is known as a scoring guard, is doing a tremendous job at distributing the ball (athough he could try and get JV a few more touches). He also gives up few turnovers, which I love. And his defense is really really good. He can make life very difficult for opposing guards, and can sneak in to draw a charge on a big. Plus, he is a really great leader on the floor right now. I think as long as Lowry maintains the type of role he has on this Raps team, then I expect him to continue to play at a similar level. Lowry reminds me of my favorite player Payton, in some ways. Great scorer, passer, leader, and of course, defender. He is an all-around PG, with little to no glaring holes in his game.

    Irving needs to be more like Kyle IMO if he truly wants to get to the elite level. He is a more gifted scorer than Lowry, but that is perhaps the only advantage he presently has. But he is young so he has plenty of time to develop a more well rounded game. I also feel a little sorry for the guy. I mean, he is young, and is expected to lead a very young team with chemistry issues into the playoffs. This is a daunting task IMO, and we probably shouldn't be too hard on the guy I guess, the situation in CLE isn't really that condusive to success.

    Anyways, I'll take Lowry for the effort, defence and assist/TO ratio...that's my kinda PG!!

  12. #49
    Raptors Republic All-Star OldSkoolCool's Avatar
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    Quote ReubenJRD wrote: View Post
    By no means is Kyle Lowry better than Kyrie Irving; Irving is miles head more skilled, and a more talented basketball player. But, Lowry is a leader, his production and his abilities are the reason why this Raptor team is anywhere in the top of playoff picture.

    Irving is an awful point guard. He does not look for his teammates as much as he should (and he should, because Cleveland has some really good talent), he's obviously a shoot-first point guard (nothing wrong with that, but no balance whatsoever i.e. Jerryd Bayless-like) and isn't anywhere near mature or a leader.

    Look, at the end of the day, if Kyrie Irving were to come to Toronto, I'd accept him with open arms, he's a wonderful talent! But, he's not that player that is advertised all across the league. In the NBA, it's more then just an outside court full of scrubs *cough* Uncle Drew *cough*.
    Right now, Lowry is better than Irving hands down. Not because Lowry is more skilled than Kyrie, but because he is a better winner, and the NBA is all about winning.

    Irving in the right system, with a strong coach and strong upper management could turn him into a great player because he is a great creator...its just that the Cavs are using him Rudy Gay style

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  14. #50
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    Looks like the best pgs hands down are Mario Chalmers and George Hill not because they are more skilled but because they are better winners and the nba is all about winning. Lowry is a backup pg playing well. Lowry over Irving ... Wow. You win. Lol.

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  16. #51
    Raptors Republic All-Star JawsGT's Avatar
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    Quote Wiggins wrote: View Post
    Looks like the best pgs hands down are Mario Chalmers and George Hill not because they are more skilled but because they are better winners and the nba is all about winning. Lowry is a backup pg playing well. Lowry over Irving ... Wow. You win. Lol.
    You focus too much on skill. Personality, heart, drive, determination, perseverance, communication are all important characteristics of a ball player, especially a PG. And if Lowry is a backup, then name me 30 NBA PG's that are better?

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    Raptors Republic All-Star stooley's Avatar
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    Quote JawsGT wrote: View Post
    You focus too much on skill. Personality, heart, drive, determination, perseverance, communication are all important characteristics of a ball player, especially a PG. And if Lowry is a backup, then name me 30 NBA PG's that are better?
    Do you really expect to get a straight answer?

  18. #53
    Raptors Republic All-Star JawsGT's Avatar
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    Quote stooley wrote: View Post
    Do you really expect to get a straight answer?
    oh, I really don't know, is he/she a troll? But it would be nice to see a list of 30 better PG's in the NBA currently, injured or healthy. If we are wasting our time starting a backup PG, then I want to know who we should put in his place instead, because if there are 30 out there, then it shouldn't be too difficult to get our hands on one of them.

    But I don't expect him to answer because doing so would prove he/she is wrong!

  19. #54
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    Quote Wiggins wrote: View Post
    Looks like the best pgs hands down are Mario Chalmers and George Hill not because they are more skilled but because they are better winners and the nba is all about winning. Lowry is a backup pg playing well. Lowry over Irving ... Wow. You win. Lol.
    Wow, ok there Mr Troll.

    Guys who are as talented or close enough to Irving and who I'd take over him in a heartbeat....either because of being better leaders, better 2-way players, getting more out of their teammates, etc...

    -Paul
    -Curry
    -Parker
    -Lawson
    -Lowry
    -Bledsoe
    -Wall

    If injuries are taken out of the picture these guys are obvious choices
    -Rose
    -Rondo
    -Westbrook

    Honourable mentions who I might take but not sure it'd be hands down....
    -Jeff Teague
    -Jrue Holiday
    -Goran Dragic

    Now, very few of these guys are equally/more talented than Irving. Pretty much all have shown more desirable play from the PG position. You can definitely put some blame on coaching/management....but you can also look at the players, who their supposed leader is, and figure they deserve their fair share of blame.

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  21. #55
    Raptors Republic All-Star OldSkoolCool's Avatar
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    Quote Wiggins wrote: View Post
    Looks like the best pgs hands down are Mario Chalmers and George Hill not because they are more skilled but because they are better winners and the nba is all about winning. Lowry is a backup pg playing well. Lowry over Irving ... Wow. You win. Lol.
    Lowry is definitely not a backup calibre PG. He is a legit starter

    Mario Chalmers is not the reason why the Heat are winning. Lowry is the reason TO is winning. See the difference?

    I measure a players worth by their contribution to playing winning basketball.

  22. #56
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    Quote Wiggins wrote: View Post
    Looks like the best pgs hands down are Mario Chalmers and George Hill not because they are more skilled but because they are better winners and the nba is all about winning. Lowry is a backup pg playing well. Lowry over Irving ... Wow. You win. Lol.
    I only liked the first half of your post.

    Lowry is awesome but Kyrie is sooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo ooooooooooo talented.

  23. #57
    Raptors Republic All-Star Mediumcore's Avatar
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    If Kyrie is available and it doesn't cost us JV or Ross, I don't see how you can not make an offer.

    Just a thought...Lowry is a shoot first PG averaging 7.6 assists a game in this Raptors roster. No reason why Kyrie couldn't match and or exceed those numbers. If he looks like crap on that Clevland team it's because that team is crap. He would thrive on most other rosters, imo. Side thought ... What sort of numbers would a pass first PG like Rondo put up on this Roster?

  24. #58
    Raptors Republic All-Star OldSkoolCool's Avatar
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    Quote Mediumcore wrote: View Post
    If Kyrie is available and it doesn't cost us JV or Ross, I don't see how you can not make an offer.

    Just a thought...Lowry is a shoot first PG averaging 7.6 assists a game in this Raptors roster. No reason why Kyrie couldn't match and or exceed those numbers. If he looks like crap on that Clevland team it's because that team is crap. He would thrive on most other rosters, imo. Side thought ... What sort of numbers would a pass first PG like Rondo put up on this Roster?
    Not good. We only have one outside shooter in Ross so Rondo would struggle.

  25. #59
    Raptors Republic Veteran ceez's Avatar
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    Wiggins' post had a slight hint of troll but i think what he was trying to say is you don't need a top tier pg to win a championship
    @jerboat

  26. #60
    Raptors Republic Starter Just Is's Avatar
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    Quote Wiggins wrote: View Post
    omfg who is better than kyrie irving that he's overrated?
    you kids need to look up the meanings of these big words you're throwing around.
    wait don't tell me. kyle lowry is better than kyrie irving right? ROFL i don't even have the words.
    Do you only post to talk smack about Lowry? Cause, honestly... its getting REAL weird.

    I agree with the "Irving is overrated" crowd here. While, yes, the Cavs management hasn't done him any favours in terms of roster personal outside of Luol Deng, he still hasn't shown the ability to make even one teammate of his better. Thats not to say he's not a good or even very good player. He's just not great and might not even currently be a top 5 point guard in the East right now as Lowry, Wall, Teague and even Kemba (I think) are outperforming him this season.
    Last edited by Just Is; Fri Jan 31st, 2014 at 03:28 PM.

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