Zach Lowe on Lowry, Derozan and the 2014 All-Star Game

[Michel G]

Lots of love for Demar and the contract but are people aware the final year is a player option?

If he keeps playing like this he is an UFA in 2016.

Mark Deeks' ShamSports web site does not indicate that the fourth year of DD's contract is a player option. HoopsHype does however indicate the fourth year player option, but I trust Deeks' information more.

DD is shooting over 40% from 3 in the last 12 games. He's getting used to being the number one option and his numbers are indicative of that. After watching him in Portland and Utah, he is well worth 9.5 million.

[OldSkoolCool]

You're still just focused on on-paper production. The eye-test and the intangibles test both suggest otherwise. Henderson is a guy Charlotte had been trying to move since his 2nd year and couldn't find any takers. If that doesn't tell you something about his actual value, rather than just numbers on a piece of paper, I don't know what will.

Well my eye test said he was bad, and I though Henderson was a better version of DD, he had more things in his game (like dribble and shooting). This is supported by the numbers.

By looking at that list it seems like John Wall is over paid haha he makes more the Kevin Love and Aldridge and the same as Westbrook! All those guys are superstars and Wall is a good player but be ain't no star

I.....have to admit I am not a fan of Wall. He hasn't figured out how to win yet. He has the tools, and is improving and is an electric player....but sometimes it isn't about what your abilities are individually, but how are able to lead a group of guys.

However his contract was most likely due to the hype machine. Overpaid yes, but paid according to his market value IMO.

9.5 isnt big money for a high end 2 guard

Again, at the time. DD was much closer to being a Low End SG than a High End on. Remember when the contract was given out.

Right now, today. His contract is about right. But back then upon conception it was a massive overpayment.

oh, and yeah, except he didnt give out a bad contract.

It was awful.

[salmon]

It was awful.

No, what's awful is someone spending so much time, at this point in time, with what is going on with this team, and this player, intent on proving a lame argument. Actually, awful is being too gentle.

[Scraptor]

Mark Deeks' ShamSports web site does not indicate that the fourth year of DD's contract is a player option. HoopsHype does however indicate the fourth year player option, but I trust Deeks' information more.

DD is shooting over 40% from 3 in the last 12 games. He's getting used to being the number one option and his numbers are indicative of that. After watching him in Portland and Utah, he is well worth 9.5 million.

Sham's been slipping a little. The Sun had an article which mentioned the player option too.

Fortunately our cap position should be vastly improved by then. In fact, by the end of next season we have buckets of cap space for MU to mold this team however he wants.

[ezz_bee]

Again, at the time. DD was much closer to being a Low End SG than a High End on. Remember when the contract was given out.

Right now, today. His contract is about right. But back then upon conception it was a massive overpayment.

It was awful.

Yes, but what you need to remember is that the contract that was signed didn't come into place until this season. With young players aren't just paying for what they've done, you are also paying for what they will do. So it wasn't like Coangelo was making the basis of the contract what he was worth, the basis of his contract was what will he be worth in two seasons. For all we know Coangelo predicted that a Demar on the open market would be worth 12 million in UFA, and if Demar entered FA at the end of this season I'm pretty sure he'd get 12 mil a year. So locking him up at 9.5 for three straight seasons is great value.

I really can't understand why we are still talking about this. We all agree that Derozan's contract is good to great. We all agree that Coangelo made a lot of bad decisions as a GM. But out of all the bad decisions Coangelo made we're going to incessantly complain about the one that didn't come back to bite us in the ass? Coangelo is gone, Demar's contract is good value this year and GREAT value in the next two seasons... (and 3 seasons if it turns out that the 4th year is NOT a player option). Even if it was a mistake, where does it rank on Coangelo's bone head moves. In no particular order here are a few off the top of my head that were worse decisions, at the time AND in hindsight...

Signing HEDO
Trading away the pick that became ROY HIBBERT for Jermaine O'Neal
Barg's extension
Signing Fields to a back loaded contract to sign Steve Nash (did back fire as much as it would have if we had actually landed Nash).

I'm sure others can think of more... Does the Derozan extension even crack the top 10 bonehead moves?

[stooley]

Go DD!

[Michel G]

Sham's been slipping a little. The Sun had an article which mentioned the player option too.

Fortunately our cap position should be vastly improved by then. In fact, by the end of next season we have buckets of cap space for MU to mold this team however he wants.

I don't think he's slipping, he just won't indicate a player option unless he can confirm it.

Regarding the cap space, even now it's vastly improved after the Rudy Gay trade.

Watching DeMar since the trade has really shown how average a player Rudy actually is. He's an ok player, but he makes a hell of a lot of money.

[Mr.Z]

Well my eye test said he was bad, and I though Henderson was a better version of DD, he had more things in his game (like dribble and shooting). This is supported by the numbers.



I.....have to admit I am not a fan of Wall. He hasn't figured out how to win yet. He has the tools, and is improving and is an electric player....but sometimes it isn't about what your abilities are individually, but how are able to lead a group of guys.

However his contract was most likely due to the hype machine. Overpaid yes, but paid according to his market value IMO.



Again, at the time. DD was much closer to being a Low End SG than a High End on. Remember when the contract was given out.

Right now, today. His contract is about right. But back then upon conception it was a massive overpayment.



It was awful.

He didn't start making the big bucks until this season though, so it's not like the team wasted any money waiting for him reach the level he is playing at right now

[stooley]

He didn't start making the big bucks until this season though, so it's not like the team wasted any money waiting for him reach the level he is playing at right now

He's making his argument based on the premise that hindsight doesn't justify past moves. So he's looking at the signing exclusively with knowledge of the information that was available at the time.

The problem is that we actually don't know everything about that signing, as has been gone over. We don't honestly know what his market value was. How much do teams reward players with the right attitude? etc.

[OldSkoolCool]

No, what's awful is someone spending so much time, at this point in time, with what is going on with this team, and this player, intent on proving a lame argument. Actually, awful is being too gentle.

Then ignore the thread. Beauty of the internet.

Yes, but what you need to remember is that the contract that was signed didn't come into place until this season. With young players aren't just paying for what they've done, you are also paying for what they will do. So it wasn't like Coangelo was making the basis of the contract what he was worth, the basis of his contract was what will he be worth in two seasons. For all we know Coangelo predicted that a Demar on the open market would be worth 12 million in UFA, and if Demar entered FA at the end of this season I'm pretty sure he'd get 12 mil a year. So locking him up at 9.5 for three straight seasons is great value.

The thing is, DD hadn't shown to be able to do anything, so Colangelo was an idiot.

People are trying to defend Colangelo that this current team "is his"

Well the fact is he was an idiot.

[Superjudge]

Ok, I will give you Kleiza, I never liked that move, Kleiza was too slow to play in the NBA before his injury, after it was just a write off.

Hedo. Listen man, Hedo pulled one of the biggest disappearing acts EVER in pro sports the day after he signed that contract. He was THE TOP FA available that year and Toronto won out on the bidding. Nobody called it a bad move until they saw the startling, and I mean downright fantastic regression in his ability to BALL in the NBA. He did however excel at eating pizza, and became a professional at going to the club while missing games with the Flu.

Calderon...meh, maybe, I love that guy though, he is a heady and smart player. He'd make an incredible back on this team now. But yeah... that was a tough call and maybe he gave him too much.

fields. ugh. if he was the player he was as a rookie, he'd be a steal by now, I have no idea how they didn't know he was pretty much gonna have to retire soon.... how'd that go missing in the physical. We all know that was him playing games with the knicks, and even though it was kinda dumb, I did enjoy the Knicks getting played with. They clearly got the last laugh when Landry's arm fell off.

In any case, im not arguing your saying BC made some crazy ass moves, he did, he was a gambler. I enjoyed his gambles, but they often aren't prudent. On this one, I am solely speaking about one young gun, named Demar Derozan. Oddly, when they made that deal I chuckled, I truly thought Demar gave Toronto a hometown discount, because 9.5 for who he was moving toward being is an absolute steal.

So thats about it from me. I guess I also get a ornery when people start tearing into Professional GM's with such vigor and sense of entitlement when seriously, most of us have not clue what they deal with. But that's another thread and has been done to death.

[CalgaryRapsFan]

Ok, I will give you Kleiza, I never liked that move, Kleiza was too slow to play in the NBA before his injury, after it was just a write off.

Hedo. Listen man, Hedo pulled one of the biggest disappearing acts EVER in pro sports the day after he signed that contract. He was THE TOP FA available that year and Toronto won out on the bidding. Nobody called it a bad move until they saw the startling, and I mean downright fantastic regression in his ability to BALL in the NBA. He did however excel at eating pizza, and became a professional at going to the club while missing games with the Flu.

Calderon...meh, maybe, I love that guy though, he is a heady and smart player. He'd make an incredible back on this team now. But yeah... that was a tough call and maybe he gave him too much.

fields. ugh. if he was the player he was as a rookie, he'd be a steal by now, I have no idea how they didn't know he was pretty much gonna have to retire soon.... how'd that go missing in the physical. We all know that was him playing games with the knicks, and even though it was kinda dumb, I did enjoy the Knicks getting played with. They clearly got the last laugh when Landry's arm fell off.

In any case, im not arguing your saying BC made some crazy ass moves, he did, he was a gambler. I enjoyed his gambles, but they often aren't prudent. On this one, I am solely speaking about one young gun, named Demar Derozan. Oddly, when they made that deal I chuckled, I truly thought Demar gave Toronto a hometown discount, because 9.5 for who he was moving toward being is an absolute steal.

So thats about it from me. I guess I also get a ornery when people start tearing into Professional GM's with such vigor and sense of entitlement when seriously, most of us have not clue what they deal with. But that's another thread and has been done to death.

There were lots of lowly posters here on RR who were vehemently against the Hedo signing, from the moment the first rumor flared up. Same goes for the O'Neal trade. Sometimes us fans get it right, go figure.

Given where DeRozan was at early on last season, I did believe the amount was a little too high. My feelings were only magnified given the drafting of Ross (same position) and trade for Gay (wing scorer).

In hindsight it has worked out, but only because MU was able to clear away BC's mess and give playing time and scoring priority to DeRozan and Ross. However, when evaluating BC's move (timing, amount and team composition), it was a dumb move. Just because something works out, doesn't make the initial decision - or at least the rationale behind that decision - a smart one.

[Superjudge]

Then ignore the thread. Beauty of the internet.



The thing is, DD hadn't shown to be able to do anything, so Colangelo was an idiot.

People are trying to defend Colangelo that this current team "is his"

Well the fact is he was an idiot.

clearly you aren't a Golfer.


Honestly man, just stop. Some of your criticism of BC is valid, but most is smoke out your ass and I am fairly certain you are aware of that. Anyone who is savvy, and has a real understanding of basketball could have told you that Demar Derozan was as sure a bet to develope into a decent to star SG. Don't forget he was a one and done prodigy that played abou 18 NCAA games or so (maybe a bit more, but he was hurt in college and missed a lot of dev time). You have a raw talent, with a nose for hard work, team play, and focus. You had a kid that didn't go to the clubs, didn't do drugs, and was known to be an ultimate Gym rat. He was popular with other players in the league, with officials, and always showed he belonged on the floor.

He got paid 9.5 million. It was the right call in the landscape it was made. Any argument otherwise is simply wrong, I'm sorry, but I reiterate, there is a fuckload more to pro sports that stats. If it was just the shit you're talking about here, well, then you could get the job. And you can't. And if you say you can, I will say youre an idiot.... for two reasons 1) if you cannot, you're an idiot for claiming you can. 2) If you are in fact so talented you could, why the fuck are you wasting time here????

I love ya bud, but not on this one.... I cannot be down with the oldschool on the DD signing, I just cannot.

[Superjudge]

There were lots of lowly posters here on RR who were vehemently against the Hedo signing, from the moment the first rumor flared up. Same goes for the O'Neal trade. Sometimes us fans get it right, go figure.

Given where DeRozan was at early on last season, I did believe the amount was a little too high. My feelings were only magnified given the drafting of Ross (same position) and trade for Gay (wing scorer).

In hindsight it has worked out, but only because MU was able to clear away BC's mess and give playing time and scoring priority to DeRozan and Ross. However, when evaluating BC's move (timing, amount and team composition), it was a dumb move. Just because something works out, doesn't make the initial decision - or at least the rationale behind that decision - a smart one.

I'm sorry man. If a guy does something, tell syou why, and what he says happens, well, it ain't dumb.

[CalgaryRapsFan]

I'm sorry man. If a guy does something, tell syou why, and what he says happens, well, it ain't dumb.

If I tell you I can go buy a chocolate bar for $10, give the cashier a $10 bill and walk out with a chocolate bar, I did what I said I could. If I could have been able to do the same for under $2, then I'm dumb, even though it worked out.


As for DeRozan, nobody (I don't think) is saying he could have been re-signed for something like $4-6M per season. However, given the market conditions and where he was at back then, I don't think it's crazy to think that $9.5M might have been a little high at the time.

On the other hand, considering it's a flat contract, it was widely assumed (even by me back then, whose often called a DeRozan hater) that as time went on, it would seem much more reasonable - possibly to the point where it was a steal by the end of the deal.