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Thread: We really need Greg Monroe.

  1. #1
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    Default We really need Greg Monroe.

    Like pretty bad. Amir looks terrible on the court, I am very comfortable trading him. I love him with all my heart but he looks tired and slow and it's never going to help us win when he goes up against Blake Griffin or Paul Millsap or whoever. Monroe's strong and young and he's not really working out in Detroit.

    TOR: Monroe, Siva, Stuckey.
    DET: Johnson, Novak, Vasquez.

    I think salaries match up okay. I think we might have to throw in some kind of second rounder though.

    Thoughts? Tell me your ideal trades to get Monroe.

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    Raptors Republic All-Star KHD's Avatar
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    Kiss any semblance of defence goodbye.

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    Raptors Republic All-Star Primer's Avatar
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    Quote Jordan Evans wrote: View Post
    Like pretty bad. Amir looks terrible on the court, I am very comfortable trading him. I love him with all my heart but he looks tired and slow and it's never going to help us win when he goes up against Blake Griffin or Paul Millsap or whoever. Monroe's strong and young and he's not really working out in Detroit.

    TOR: Monroe, Siva, Stuckey.
    DET: Johnson, Novak, Vasquez.

    I think salaries match up okay. I think we might have to throw in some kind of second rounder though.

    Thoughts? Tell me your ideal trades to get Monroe.
    If we wanted Monroe we'd have to send Detroit a 1st round pick, likely this years but maybe we can convince them to take a future one. Something like Hansbrough and a 1st for Monroe might get it done. Maybe Vasquez and a 1st. If we make it our 2014 pick I think Detroit takes it. The question is, is Monroe worth our 2014 1st when we'll have to resign him to a big deal in the offseason ($12M per year ish)? We also need to resign Lowry, so there goes our future cap space. Our projected pick right now is #19 and that could get us someone like Nik Stauskas, on a cheap rookie deal for the next 4 years. Then we could make plays for guys like Durant (pipedream perhaps, but I'd like to be able to go for it).

    Detroit wouldn't want to take on Amir's salary when they're already paying Josh Smith a boatload and they play the same position (Smith at SF doesn't work, hence why Monroe is on the table). They also wouldn't want Novaks long term deal when they're not quite ready to contend.

    I'm not totally against going for Monroe, but I think it would cost too much to be worth it. Maybe Ujiri will work some magic and surprise us.

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    What other PF's are available out there? I really really really don't want to trade Amir. He's like the heart and soul of the team and really embraces the city, but he can't stay our starting PF. The guy is like 40...he can't handle those minutes.

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    Raptors Republic All-Star mike, prague's Avatar
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    Blasphemy!

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    The biggest reason Monroe is rumoured to be available is that Smith is playing out of position as a SF rather than PF. Can't see Monroe traded without them receiving a comparable SF in return.

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    Quote KHD wrote: View Post
    Kiss any semblance of defence goodbye.
    I think if you plugged Monroe into Casey's system his defense would improve considerably. I also think his defensive shortcomings are a bit overstated. He has all the tools, he just hasn't put it all together.

    Detroit is still +5.9 points with Monroe on the court as opposed to the bench, so he clearly is a huge positive, regardless of his defense.
    For comparison, Amir is only +2.2. Also, Monroe's Opponent production is only 1.2 points worse than Amir's. So if we think Amir has good D, then Monroe's should be adequate.

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    Raptors Republic All-Star charlesnba23's Avatar
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    If we can keep DeMar, Ross, Patterson and Valanciunas, I'm all for it.

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    Quote 3inthekeon wrote: View Post
    The biggest reason Monroe is rumoured to be available is that Smith is playing out of position as a SF rather than PF. Can't see Monroe traded without them receiving a comparable SF in return.
    If Detroit is dead set on playoffs this year then you are right, they'd need a capable SF in return. There are rumors Deng may be dealt out of Cleveland with the firing of the old GM. Deng for Monroe and Villanueva works money wise, and makes sense for Detroit. Cleveland might want to find a third team to move Monroe to. Perhaps a Monroe for Evan Turner swap makes sense.

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    Raptors Republic All-Star mike, prague's Avatar
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    Quote charlesnba23 wrote: View Post
    If we can keep DeMar, Ross, Patterson and Valanciunas, I'm all for it.
    Oh and don't forget Dwight Buycks and Julyan Stone ...

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    Quote Primer wrote: View Post
    I think if you plugged Monroe into Casey's system his defense would improve considerably. I also think his defensive shortcomings are a bit overstated. He has all the tools, he just hasn't put it all together.

    Detroit is still +5.9 points with Monroe on the court as opposed to the bench, so he clearly is a huge positive, regardless of his defense.
    For comparison, Amir is only +2.2. Also, Monroe's Opponent production is only 1.2 points worse than Amir's. So if we think Amir has good D, then Monroe's should be adequate.
    Those numbers mean shit. For starters. +/- is only useful, if that, within team comparisons. Completely useless when comparing players on different teams. So your base for saying Monroe is adequate is a poor starting point, at best. Amir's value on defense is his quickness, especially as a help defender. Monroe is slow/plodding, and as bad as Bargs as a help defender. Be enamoured, if you will, with his offensive game, but he would clog up the low post for JV's development, and be the worst possible match with JV on defense.

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    Raptors Republic All-Star charlesnba23's Avatar
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    Quote mike, prague wrote: View Post
    Oh and don't forget Dwight Buycks and Julyan Stone ...
    ?

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    Raptors Republic Superstar TRex's Avatar
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    Pistons need wing players. So they probably would ask for one of DeRozan or Ross. No way i trade DeRozan or Ross for Monroe.
    Follow me on Twitter - @11_RRyan

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    Raptors Republic Starter Uncle_Si's Avatar
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    I think Kaman would be a good pick up at this point. He's cheap and expiring and isn't playing much in LA. It'd be easy to match salaries and we'd actually get a center with some length. Give JV some support and better competition in practice (size wise)

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    Quote salmon wrote: View Post
    Those numbers mean shit. For starters. +/- is only useful, if that, within team comparisons. Completely useless when comparing players on different teams. So your base for saying Monroe is adequate is a poor starting point, at best. Amir's value on defense is his quickness, especially as a help defender. Monroe is slow/plodding, and as bad as Bargs as a help defender. Be enamoured, if you will, with his offensive game, but he would clog up the low post for JV's development, and be the worst possible match with JV on defense.
    Don't be so dramatic, the numbers clearly don't mean shit. If, according to you, +/- is only useful when comparing players on the same team, let's compare Monroe to Drummond and Smith.

    On/Off +/-
    Monroe +5.9
    Drummond -6.5
    Smith +5.9

    Monroe is right there with Smith, as they are clearly the best players on Detroit. Drummond is actually pretty freaking awful in the +/-, so either he must not be as good defensively as his block and rebound totals would make you think, or his lack of offense other than dunks and terrible FT% are too much to overcome.

    And since you brought up Bargs, he is a -3.6.
    Last edited by Primer; Sat Feb 8th, 2014 at 02:11 PM.

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    Quote Uncle_Si wrote: View Post
    I think Kaman would be a good pick up at this point. He's cheap and expiring and isn't playing much in LA. It'd be easy to match salaries and we'd actually get a center with some length. Give JV some support and better competition in practice (size wise)
    Kaman is actually a good idea. He is definitely available as dealing him would save LA a ton of money in luxury tax. We just so happen to have a TPE from the Rudy trade that we could swap straight up for Kaman. If LA is just looking to dump his salary I'd love to have him.

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    Raptors Republic Superstar Axel's Avatar
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    What we really need is to stop being so dramatic after every team loss.

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  23. #18
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    Quote Axel wrote: View Post
    What we really need is to stop being so dramatic after every team loss.
    A little bit of this, a little bit of that.

    Everybody has bad games, but Amir is pretty consistent and does what we need him to do.
    That said, I think Monroe would be an improvement.

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    Quote Primer wrote: View Post
    Don't be so dramatic, the numbers clearly don't mean shit. If, according to you, +/- is only useful when comparing players on the same team, let's compare Monroe to Drummond and Smith.

    On/Off +/-
    Monroe +5.9
    Drummond -6.5
    Smith +5.9

    Monroe is right there with Smith, as they are clearly the best players on Detroit. Drummond is actually pretty freaking awful in the +/-, so either he must not be as good defensively as his block and rebound totals would make you think, or his lack of offense other than dunks and terrible FT% are too much to overcome.

    And since you brought up Bargs, he is a -3.6.
    Good lord.

    "Don't be so dramatic". Huh? No drama at all. With that statement, you're delivering drama though.

    "the numbers clearly don't mean shit". Yes they do mean shit. It's the most useless individual stat in the game.

    "If, according to you, +/- is only useful when comparing players on the same team". Perhaps you missed the "if that" part of my comment (was trying to give you some credit/leeway), so I'll now be a little more definitive: it's useless within team as well. Random examples:
    -game 1: Paul George -1, Stephenson -5, West +7, Hill +3. West & Hill are better than George & Stephenson?
    -game 2: same minutes, Hibbert -2, Mahinmi +2. Pacers are better off playing Mahinmi?
    -same game: Bosh +8, Andersen +7, DWade -3. Bosh/Andersojn are equal, and Wade is terrible to have a "-" in a win?
    -game 3: DWade +22, Andereen +13, Rashard Lewis +13, LeBron +1. What does +/- tell you that's close to a valid assessment?

  25. #20
    Raptors Republic All-Star OldSkoolCool's Avatar
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    +/- is a good stat with LARGE sample sizes. Using individual games doesn't work due to the scoring runs that happen during an NBA game

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