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Thread: Raptors should make Patterson their full time starter at the 4 spot

  1. #21
    Raptors Republic All-Star Mediumcore's Avatar
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    JV would have to be much, much better defensively to not have a huge drop off on that end of the floor by replacing Amir with PP in the starting line up. Personally not a move I would want to see.

  2. #22
    Raptors Republic Icon mcHAPPY's Avatar
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    I like the idea.

    Not quite ready to jump on board after one game though.

    However Patterson in the lineup allows more spacing for DeRozan and JV when they get their touches.

    Amir on the 2nd unit with Vasquez would be better for pick and roll. Scary part is both Amir and Vasquez have been so hit or miss - will they ever hit together? lol
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  3. #23
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    Quote Matt52 wrote: View Post
    I like the idea.

    Not quite ready to jump on board after one game though.

    However Patterson in the lineup allows more spacing for DeRozan and JV when they get their touches.

    Amir on the 2nd unit with Vasquez would be better for pick and roll. Scary part is both Amir and Vasquez have been so hit or miss - will they ever hit together? lol
    In theory, this is a pretty good idea, but the problem is that Vazquez' shooting and driving has been so bad that teams have been taking away the pass, forcing GV to make another play. Unlike the awesome Jose-Amir PnR tandem, GV isn't automatic like Jose with the open jumper.

    However, in defense of Vasquez, he has been playing most of the time with: (a) 2Pat (nice player, but not as great a PnR big as Amir), (b) Hayes (who is utterly useless) and (c) Salmons (who has morphed into an ultra low-usage wing), so Greivis ends up being the focal point of the offense and he's just not that type of guard who can create offense at the end of the clock. So, yeah maybe that Amir-GV idea could work. Definitely worth a try.

  4. #24
    Raptors Republic Superstar Axel's Avatar
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    Quote golden wrote: View Post
    In theory, this is a pretty good idea, but the problem is that Vazquez' shooting and driving has been so bad that teams have been taking away the pass, forcing GV to make another play. Unlike the awesome Jose-Amir PnR tandem, GV isn't automatic like Jose with the open jumper.

    However, in defense of Vasquez, he has been playing most of the time with: (a) 2Pat (nice player, but not as great a PnR big as Amir), (b) Hayes (who is utterly useless) and (c) Salmons (who has morphed into an ultra low-usage wing), so Greivis ends up being the focal point of the offense and he's just not that type of guard who can create offense at the end of the clock. So, yeah maybe that Amir-GV idea could work. Definitely worth a try.
    I think you nailed it on the head of exactly what would happen. It wouldn't take defences long to adjust and certainly wouldn't work in the playoffs. GV just hasn't been able to shoot that well in his career. If Salmons was the Salmons of 5 years ago, it could work but with this current group I don't see how.

    Any time a unit's primary scoring option is Amir, it's going to struggle to score. It's just not his game. He can be a good component in an offence, but he can't be the focal point. Too easy to defend. You'd need to add a shooter for pick and pop or slasher for weakside cuts to make it work. I'm sure Masai could acquire those pieces in the future, but for today, no thanks.

  5. #25
    Raptors Republic Icon mcHAPPY's Avatar
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    Quote Axel wrote: View Post
    I think you nailed it on the head of exactly what would happen. It wouldn't take defences long to adjust and certainly wouldn't work in the playoffs. GV just hasn't been able to shoot that well in his career. If Salmons was the Salmons of 5 years ago, it could work but with this current group I don't see how.

    Any time a unit's primary scoring option is Amir, it's going to struggle to score. It's just not his game. He can be a good component in an offence, but he can't be the focal point. Too easy to defend. You'd need to add a shooter for pick and pop or slasher for weakside cuts to make it work. I'm sure Masai could acquire those pieces in the future, but for today, no thanks.
    Novak?

    Salmons?
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  6. #26
    Raptors Republic Veteran Nilanka's Avatar
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    Patterson in the starting lineup could work, as long as Casey is disciplined enough not to have Amir plus 4 benchers on the floor together at once. We gotta have 2 starters on the floor at all times.
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    Raptors Republic Superstar Axel's Avatar
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    Quote Matt52 wrote: View Post
    Novak?

    Salmons?
    You missed the "pick and pop" part of shooter. How exactly would Novak get open? He's never been a screen and shoot guy. He's an off-ball catch and shoot player. There just isn't any evidence that he could play that role.

    Surely you don't mean Salmons as a slasher at this point in his career?

  8. #28
    Raptors Republic Superstar planetmars's Avatar
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    Quote Axel wrote: View Post
    I think you nailed it on the head of exactly what would happen. It wouldn't take defences long to adjust and certainly wouldn't work in the playoffs. GV just hasn't been able to shoot that well in his career. If Salmons was the Salmons of 5 years ago, it could work but with this current group I don't see how.

    Any time a unit's primary scoring option is Amir, it's going to struggle to score. It's just not his game. He can be a good component in an offence, but he can't be the focal point. Too easy to defend. You'd need to add a shooter for pick and pop or slasher for weakside cuts to make it work. I'm sure Masai could acquire those pieces in the future, but for today, no thanks.
    Come playoff time I seriously hope Casey shrinks his bench and gives the starters many more minutes (40+). No reason why GV should get a lot of playing time when the real season begins, especially when guards usually don't get into foul trouble.

  9. #29
    Raptors Republic Superstar Axel's Avatar
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    Quote planetmars wrote: View Post
    Come playoff time I seriously hope Casey shrinks his bench and gives the starters many more minutes (40+). No reason why GV should get a lot of playing time when the real season begins, especially when guards usually don't get into foul trouble.
    No, but you still need to run a bench for stretches. A zero offence, mildly defensive unit for 5 minutes could easily mean a big run the other way. Unless you are counting on our starters to make up the points every time, in which case it won't take long for them to burn out and certainly wouldn't work against a good team (re: 2nd round)

  10. #30
    Raptors Republic Superstar planetmars's Avatar
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    Quote Axel wrote: View Post
    No, but you still need to run a bench for stretches. A zero offence, mildly defensive unit for 5 minutes could easily mean a big run the other way. Unless you are counting on our starters to make up the points every time, in which case it won't take long for them to burn out and certainly wouldn't work against a good team (re: 2nd round)
    I would assume that for that 5-8 minute stretch that the opposing team's bench would also be on the court as well. A PnR with Amir even if it can be stopped would have to be done with inferior talent on the opposing side.

  11. #31
    Raptors Republic Superstar Axel's Avatar
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    Quote planetmars wrote: View Post
    I would assume that for that 5-8 minute stretch that the opposing team's bench would also be on the court as well. A PnR with Amir even if it can be stopped would have to be done with inferior talent on the opposing side.
    Match-ups would be key here, as even a lower seeded team could have a better bench than us. Right now, it's lining up that we would play either Washington, Brooklyn or Chicago in the 1st round. Chicago can bring a dude off the streets and he'll defend for Thibs. Brooklyn would have AK47 patrolling the 2nd unit. Washington is the 7th best DRtg team in the league and Trevor Booker is actually a pretty good defender at the back-up PF spot.

    Don't even want to consider how this would work against Miami or Indiana in the 2nd round.

  12. #32
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    Quote Axel wrote: View Post
    I think you nailed it on the head of exactly what would happen. It wouldn't take defences long to adjust and certainly wouldn't work in the playoffs. GV just hasn't been able to shoot that well in his career. If Salmons was the Salmons of 5 years ago, it could work but with this current group I don't see how.

    Any time a unit's primary scoring option is Amir, it's going to struggle to score. It's just not his game. He can be a good component in an offence, but he can't be the focal point. Too easy to defend. You'd need to add a shooter for pick and pop or slasher for weakside cuts to make it work. I'm sure Masai could acquire those pieces in the future, but for today, no thanks.
    Yup. To make this particular Raps bench work (even with 2Pat in there) you need at a classic sixth man, high-usage, gunner-type of wing, e.g. Jamal Crawford, Ben Gordon, OJ Mayo, etc ..... Like you said, those type of guys are usually available.

  13. #33
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    Quote GLF wrote: View Post
    I think it could work. It was bad today because of the bench drop off but I think a lot of that had to do with Casey playing Hayes way too much tonight and there being no Amir. If you had Amir and Tyler coming off the bench it might not be as bad. Vasquez and Amir might actually be pretty good in the pick and roll. And Tyler can draw fouls and be used in the post. Both Vasquez and Salmons can pass so Tyler and Amir might get more touches and both of them are efficient so that would be a good thing.
    Casey is using Hayes way too much. Just like he did last year with Alan Anderson.

  14. #34
    Raptors Republic All-Star charlesnba23's Avatar
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    So in conclusion we need a scorer for our second unit at the trade deadline and we all good with this move

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    Raptors Republic Superstar Axel's Avatar
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    Quote charlesnba23 wrote: View Post
    So in conclusion we need a scorer for our second unit at the trade deadline and we all good with this move
    If we can get the right player, absolutely. Question then is, who and at what cost? Obviously if you're making a move for depth, moving any depth guy could have ramifications. Moving Hansbrough would be probably the best combo of return value with minimal disruption to the unit.

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    Quote planetmars wrote: View Post
    Come playoff time I seriously hope Casey shrinks his bench and gives the starters many more minutes (40+). No reason why GV should get a lot of playing time when the real season begins, especially when guards usually don't get into foul trouble.
    In playoffs we will need John Salmons for defensive coverage.

  18. #37
    Raptors Republic Superstar Axel's Avatar
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    Quote psrs1 wrote: View Post
    In playoffs we will need John Salmons for defensive coverage.
    Which is kinda sad lol. But true.

  19. #38
    Raptors Republic All-Star charlesnba23's Avatar
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    Quote Axel wrote: View Post
    If we can get the right player, absolutely. Question then is, who and at what cost? Obviously if you're making a move for depth, moving any depth guy could have ramifications. Moving Hansbrough would be probably the best combo of return value with minimal disruption to the unit.
    I just think that Masai can get a deal done without giving away any of our rotation player.

  20. #39
    Raptors Republic All-Star OldSkoolCool's Avatar
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    Quote charlesnba23 wrote: View Post
    So in conclusion we need a scorer for our second unit at the trade deadline and we all good with this move
    I wanted Jordan Crawford...but not going to happen now

    Unless we trade DD for Barnes+Crawford (I think this would actually be pretty good for TO)

    Will have to go through multiple trades since Crawford cannot be traded in conjunction with other players

  21. #40
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    Quote Axel wrote: View Post
    If we can get the right player, absolutely. Question then is, who and at what cost? Obviously if you're making a move for depth, moving any depth guy could have ramifications. Moving Hansbrough would be probably the best combo of return value with minimal disruption to the unit.
    The one guy I keep thinking about, especially if LAL is happy tanking this season and wants to clear as much salary as possible for the offseason, is Nick Young. He's making $1.12M this season, with a $1.23M player option for next season (might not use it, if he feels he can sign for more after a decent season this year). He'd be a great scoring option off the bench, especially given the lack of wing depth on the roster.

    The Raps could use TPE or offer somebody like Stone/Buycks, perhaps along with OKC's 2014 2nd round pick.

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