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Thread: Lead Guard vs. Point Guard?

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    Raptors Republic All-Star WJF's Avatar
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    Default Lead Guard vs. Point Guard?

    Some of the discussions in other threads got me to thinking about the PG position.

    Some guards get called combo guards, some point guards, some shooting guards, but maybe there is another guard posotion, Lead guard!

    Some guards lead their team from the 2 spot (Kobe, Harden), but are not considered the team's pg, nor are they labelled the dreaded combo guard. Some do this from the PG spot, (Westbrook, Irving).

    We have seen the term "score first PG" used, but maybe Lead Guard fits better, the ball is in the lead guards hands more than it is not, and if they can score, they do it, but they also set the offense and find teammates on a regualr basis. Thoughts?

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    Raptors Republic Superstar Superjudge's Avatar
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    If the shoe fits...sure.... I like it.

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    Quote WJF wrote: View Post
    Some of the discussions in other threads got me to thinking about the PG position.

    Some guards get called combo guards, some point guards, some shooting guards, but maybe there is another guard posotion, Lead guard!

    Some guards lead their team from the 2 spot (Kobe, Harden), but are not considered the team's pg, nor are they labelled the dreaded combo guard. Some do this from the PG spot, (Westbrook, Irving).

    We have seen the term "score first PG" used, but maybe Lead Guard fits better, the ball is in the lead guards hands more than it is not, and if they can score, they do it, but they also set the offense and find teammates on a regualr basis. Thoughts?
    Well the key here is the "lead" part. It doesn't matter if it's a pure PG, a scoring PG, or your SG, but the guy who has the ball in his hands a lot on the perimeter, who initiates most of your O even if it's as a scorer...Well he's gotta be a leader. He's gotta know how to do what's best for his team, be able to rally his teammates, set the right example on both ends, etc...Otherwise he's lacking somehow to be your "lead" guard, and it will be difficult to overcome unless you get another tremendous player and leader at a different position.

    It is a part that Westbrook is still working on. Something Ellis has never really seemed to get. Something Curry has done a very good job of adopting (which has even led to him improving as a pure PG on top of being a scorer). And something Irving still needs to pick up on.

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    Quote white men can't jump wrote: View Post
    is a part that Westbrook is still working on. Something Ellis has never really seemed to get. Something Curry has done a very good job of adopting (which has even led to him improving as a pure PG on top of being a scorer). And something Irving still needs to pick up on.
    And something lowry has picked up


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    Quote wallz wrote: View Post
    And something lowry has picked up


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    Haha

    Hopefully. He definitely has improved a lot this year in that area. Hope he sustains it and doesn't fall back into his old habits. It was always one of the things I used to dislike about him because I'm a firm believer that it's one of the most critical parts of building a team.

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    Raptors Republic Superstar Axel's Avatar
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    What does 'lead' mean? Kobe leads by scoring, which fits his positional name-sake of "shooting guard". Harden initiates a lot of offence, but also scores, so is that lead, point or shooting?

    Personally I think it's kinda a fruitless mission. They are all guards, but that doesn't necessarily mean they lead their team.

    What about a team with a point forward who facilitates the offence from the high post? Does that mean they should be given the lead designation instead? Dallas' entire offence for the last decade has predicated on giving Dirk the ball at the elbow. Current guys like Jose and Ellis are largely there for spacing.

    I just don't think that the game can be summed up in nice little blocks like this. It's too diverse, too versatile.

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    Quote Axel wrote: View Post
    What does 'lead' mean? Kobe leads by scoring, which fits his positional name-sake of "shooting guard". Harden initiates a lot of offence, but also scores, so is that lead, point or shooting?

    Personally I think it's kinda a fruitless mission. They are all guards, but that doesn't necessarily mean they lead their team.

    What about a team with a point forward who facilitates the offence from the high post? Does that mean they should be given the lead designation instead? Dallas' entire offence for the last decade has predicated on giving Dirk the ball at the elbow. Current guys like Jose and Ellis are largely there for spacing.

    I just don't think that the game can be summed up in nice little blocks like this. It's too diverse, too versatile.
    Yup! Good/great teams come in many different flavours. It's all about finding a mix that works, not trying to force players into molds/clones of some other team(s), and that's even more prevalent than ever before in today's NBA.

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    Quote Axel wrote: View Post
    What does 'lead' mean? Kobe leads by scoring, which fits his positional name-sake of "shooting guard". Harden initiates a lot of offence, but also scores, so is that lead, point or shooting?

    Personally I think it's kinda a fruitless mission. They are all guards, but that doesn't necessarily mean they lead their team.

    What about a team with a point forward who facilitates the offence from the high post? Does that mean they should be given the lead designation instead? Dallas' entire offence for the last decade has predicated on giving Dirk the ball at the elbow. Current guys like Jose and Ellis are largely there for spacing.

    I just don't think that the game can be summed up in nice little blocks like this. It's too diverse, too versatile.

    Great points.

    I like the idea of having a 'lead guard' on my team, aka a guy that can create from the perimeter for most of the game, like Kobe, D-Rose, Lillard, Etc. But the versatility of the NBA is what makes it great

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    Quote wallz wrote: View Post
    Great points.

    I like the idea of having a 'lead guard' on my team, aka a guy that can create from the perimeter for most of the game, like Kobe, D-Rose, Lillard, Etc. But the versatility of the NBA is what makes it great
    I don't quite get the combination of players you (and the OP) used though.

    Kobe creates offence for Kobe by shooting.
    Rose creates offence by driving to score or set-up his teammates.
    Lillard is a more traditional point in how he runs the offence and uses both drives and 3's to keep pressure on the D.

    All three very successful but are 3 different styles of play. Every team needs a player to create and I don't think it matters which style you have as long as you build around the strengths.

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    Quote Axel wrote: View Post
    I don't quite get the combination of players you (and the OP) used though.

    Kobe creates offence for Kobe by shooting.
    Rose creates offence by driving to score or set-up his teammates.
    Lillard is a more traditional point in how he runs the offence and uses both drives and 3's to keep pressure on the D.

    All three very successful but are 3 different styles of play. Every team needs a player to create and I don't think it matters which style you have as long as you build around the strengths.
    They lead their respective teams by handling the ball for a big chuck of the game, but they can take over games in completely different ways. Just the way I look at it anyway

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    Quote wallz wrote: View Post
    They lead their respective teams by handling the ball for a big chuck of the game, but they can take over games in completely different ways. Just the way I look at it anyway
    So is that a "lead guard" or just a great player?

    Other than Lillard (who is a close 2nd fiddle to Aldridge), you are really just describing star players who happen to be guards. ?

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    Quote Axel wrote: View Post
    So is that a "lead guard" or just a great player?

    Other than Lillard (who is a close 2nd fiddle to Aldridge), you are really just describing star players who happen to be guards. ?
    Yea basically. I never went in depth with my description, just a ball dominant guard that is a dominant player. One who "leads" the team and happens to be a guard. The other descriptions are too specific IMO


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    I always thought that "lead guard" is just a synonym for "point guard".

    Like "goalie" and "keeper".
    "I don't lie. I willfully participate in a campaign of misinformation." - Fox Mulder

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    BR just had a decent article on players redefining their position. It featured a quote from Steve Nash on players like D Rose and Russ:

    "He said that he didn’t have a problem with it, and that he was actually impressed with it. He said they aren’t really point guards or shooting guards, but they’re “super guards.”

    He used that term because they do everything that both guard slots are expected to do, and effectively play both positions at the same time."

    Maybe Super Guard is the new term?
    http://bleacherreport.com/articles/1...sitions/page/4

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