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Thread: Everything VC: the man, the legacy, the possible return in '14-15

  1. #81
    Raptors Republic Veteran white men can't jump's Avatar
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    Quote vino wrote: View Post
    Couldn't care less about Carter at this point. The question is, can he help the team win more games and I think the answer is "no". I'd much rather gave the roster spot to a young player with potential - ala Ujiri
    You can definitely give the roster spot to a young player.

    But say you don't? As a FA signing, I think he can help the team win more games than, say, John Salmons has this year. If you don't think so, I'm not sure how objective you're being. There are really few good bench options available this year. As I said somewhere up higher in this thread...there are some starters (especially if certain guys opt out), and then a lot of limited players who can do maybe half the things Carter does.

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    Quote Mediumcore wrote: View Post
    Isn't Paul Pierce a free agent this year. I'd take him over Carter at this point in their careers, plus he's a better leader and has a ring to speak of experience.
    PP isn't going to sign in Toronto, lol.

    He'll either retire, stay with the Nets, or go back to Boston. Though, I think that depends on KG and what-not.

    Quote YoungGunRaptor wrote: View Post
    Definitely, if he agrees to sign on a vet minimum, then by all means bring VC back!

    I haven't been fazed by all the attempts by the media to make Raptors fans forgive Vince, but even then, he can provide our team with so much. Honestly, I would take a 38 year old VC over a 34 year old Salmons.

    If Casey gives Fields bench minutes next season, VC would have less pressure to perform. All he would have to do is grace the court for ~20 minutes a game, bringing his 3 point range and grit. Especially with Derozan and JV, having Vince as another legitimate 3 point range can help stretch the floor tremendously.
    Agreed. VC with 20~ minutes a game, would be great. Essentially, just replace Salmons role with VC. I definitely think we'd be much better off.

    Quote Raps76 wrote: View Post
    I was one of the happy brainwashed and thought it was absolutely inevitable too, then this happened last wk:


    http://bleacherreport.com/articles/2...tter-next-year
    http://www.mavsmoneyball.com/2014/3/...averick-resign
    What's VC supposed to say, open declare that he doesn't want to sign with the Mavs? It's just being "correct".

    Quote vino wrote: View Post
    Couldn't care less about Carter at this point. The question is, can he help the team win more games and I think the answer is "no". I'd much rather gave the roster spot to a young player with potential - ala Ujiri
    What "Young" player with potential? Yes, of course, young player with potential would be better, but whom? What young player, is up and coming, can put up similar numbers, for the same amount of money?

    Quote white men can't jump wrote: View Post
    You can definitely give the roster spot to a young player.

    But say you don't? As a FA signing, I think he can help the team win more games than, say, John Salmons has this year. If you don't think so, I'm not sure how objective you're being. There are really few good bench options available this year. As I said somewhere up higher in this thread...there are some starters (especially if certain guys opt out), and then a lot of limited players who can do maybe half the things Carter does.
    Don't think he's being too objective. There aren't many players in the NBA left that can do what Carter can still do at this age. He's a very talented/good player even at 38, I don't see why people are so against him coming back. Yes, the past is the past, but shit, if he's willing to take less money, and he can still contribute, why the hell not?

  3. #83
    Raptors Republic All-Star 007's Avatar
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    The only thing that should determine whether he comes here or not is his talent.

    His "Horrible legacy" or "Bad-taste-in-the-mouth return" does not matter.

    A "Homecoming" or whatever does not matter.

    If he is able to help us win more games with him than we would be able to without him, bring him in.

    If he is not able, don't.

    Don't be biased about Carter, from any perspective.
    The name's Bond, James Bond.

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  5. #84
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    I see this is as a major DISTRACTION and developing a winning team is all about focus and alignment to the common goal. Even if Vince is the model citizen, there will be endless media articles, interviews, flashback clips, etc.., etc..., about the mediocre-old-days. That is a classic, zero-value-add DISTRACTION.

    Media will be interviewing DD about the effect of VC on him and how VC is helping the young guys, blah, blah, blah.... and then DD will have to bite his tongue and say some BS about how he was VC fan growing up and how VC is doing this and that crap to help the team....

    Players have more than enough distractions. To proactively introduce another distraction into the mix would be very irresponsible by TL and MU, if you ask me. This is already a disproportionate amount of distraction and this hasn't even happened yet, FFS. I mean, seriously, we are talking about the BACKUP WING position, folks.

    If it's all about getting a veteran backup wing, who will contribute to winning & culture, then why not get a veteran Euro guy, like we did with Anthony Parker, or the Suns with PJ Tucker? Or even a D-leaguer like J. Moon. And there's always some retread wing player available like Gerald Green, Dorrell Wright, etc... that exceeds expectations.

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  7. #85
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    Vet Euro....

    Hedo Turkoglu?
    The name's Bond, James Bond.

  8. #86
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    Quote golden wrote: View Post
    I see this is as a major DISTRACTION and developing a winning team is all about focus and alignment to the common goal. Even if Vince is the model citizen, there will be endless media articles, interviews, flashback clips, etc.., etc..., about the mediocre-old-days. That is a classic, zero-value-add DISTRACTION.

    Media will be interviewing DD about the effect of VC on him and how VC is helping the young guys, blah, blah, blah.... and then DD will have to bite his tongue and say some BS about how he was VC fan growing up and how VC is doing this and that crap to help the team....

    Players have more than enough distractions. To proactively introduce another distraction into the mix would be very irresponsible by TL and MU, if you ask me. This is already a disproportionate amount of distraction and this hasn't even happened yet, FFS. I mean, seriously, we are talking about the BACKUP WING position, folks.

    If it's all about getting a veteran backup wing, who will contribute to winning & culture, then why not get a veteran Euro guy, like we did with Anthony Parker, or the Suns with PJ Tucker? Or even a D-leaguer like J. Moon. And there's always some retread wing player available like Gerald Green, Dorrell Wright, etc... that exceeds expectations.
    I really don't think it'll be that much of a distraction. It'll be a story the media overkills to start the season and will die fast.

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    Quote white men can't jump wrote: View Post
    I really don't think it'll be that much of a distraction. It'll be a story the media overkills to start the season and will die fast.

    Sent from my HTC One using Tapatalk
    But, it WILL be a distraction - no denying that. And any distraction is too much. Especially, when it can be completely avoided in the first place.

    I mean, are you telling me that the reigning Executive of the Year can't find any other veteran backup wing player? Carter is 39 years old, man. Come on... this whole idea is mind numbing. And I'm a huge Carter fan who harbors no ill feelings about the 'way' he left.

    It's all about the nostalgia, which is.... wait for it.....

    DISTRACTION.

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  11. #88
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    Quote golden wrote: View Post
    But, it WILL be a distraction - no denying that. And any distraction is too much. Especially, when it can be completely avoided in the first place.

    I mean, are you telling me that the reigning Executive of the Year can't find any other veteran backup wing player? Carter is 39 years old, man. Come on... this whole idea is mind numbing. And I'm a huge Carter fan who harbors no ill feelings about the 'way' he left.

    It's all about the nostalgia, which is.... wait for it.....

    DISTRACTION.
    His use is obvious. He would be a better version of John Salmons who can hit the 3 very consistently and is quick enough to play defence. Its not all about nostalgia when he will objectively fill the role of veteran back-up wing better than any of our veteran back-up wings.
    The Baltic Beast is unstoppable!

  12. #89
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    Quote golden wrote: View Post
    But, it WILL be a distraction - no denying that. And any distraction is too much. Especially, when it can be completely avoided in the first place.

    I mean, are you telling me that the reigning Executive of the Year can't find any other veteran backup wing player? Carter is 39 years old, man. Come on... this whole idea is mind numbing. And I'm a huge Carter fan who harbors no ill feelings about the 'way' he left.

    It's all about the nostalgia, which is.... wait for it.....

    DISTRACTION.
    It won't be a serious distraction at all, and I'd definitely argue that it may have absolutely no impact whatsoever on what the team does on the court, and in practice.

    *And first people were saying how he's 38...now he's 39?

    He's 37. He wont' be 38 until midway through next year. That's still old, but how he's suddenly become 2 years older in this thread makes no sense.

  13. #90
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    Quote golden wrote: View Post
    ...If it's all about getting a veteran backup wing, who will contribute to winning & culture, then why not get a veteran Euro guy, like we did with Anthony Parker, or the Suns with PJ Tucker? Or even a D-leaguer like J. Moon. And there's always some retread wing player available like Gerald Green, Dorrell Wright, etc... that exceeds expectations.
    There are five starters on each team...30 teams means 150 starters in this league. At least one media outlet has ranked Carter, THIS year as being the 86th best player in the league. That means better than 64 starters. How many second unit guys can you say that about? Anyone who doesn't think that will immediately improve the Raps is smoking something. Keep the Raps core, plus PPat, one of GV or De Colo plus Carter and the team is better than this years team.

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    Quote Puffer wrote: View Post
    There are five starters on each team...30 teams means 150 starters in this league. At least one media outlet has ranked Carter, THIS year as being the 86th best player in the league. That means better than 64 starters. How many second unit guys can you say that about? Anyone who doesn't think that will immediately improve the Raps is smoking something. Keep the Raps core, plus PPat, one of GV or De Colo plus Carter and the team is better than this years team.
    The new ESPN metric also ranks Carter crazy high, like top 50 high.

  15. #92
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    Carter is still a good player and his skillset could fit in quite nicely.. but my concern is that many fans won't forgive or forget that easily.. so it's still a risk. Fans boo when they don't get free pizza. They still boo Carter 10 years after the fact.

    How awkward would it be for the home team getting booed when Carter gets subbed in? Why should MU and TL take that chance?

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    Quote planetmars wrote: View Post
    Carter is still a good player and his skillset could fit in quite nicely.. but my concern is that many fans won't forgive or forget that easily.. so it's still a risk. Fans boo when they don't get free pizza. They still boo Carter 10 years after the fact.

    How awkward would it be for the home team getting booed when Carter gets subbed in? Why should MU and TL take that chance?
    With the way Carter's been playing the last few yrs the boos would turn to cheers pretty quickly. You'd have to be in your 30's minimum to even have truly been snakebit by Carter and I think even the last guard of the haters comes around when the team is winning and Vince is producing..

    Sent from my Galaxy Nexus using Tapatalk

  17. #94
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    Quote Raps76 wrote: View Post
    With the way Carter's been playing the last few yrs the boos would turn to cheers pretty quickly. You'd have to be in your 30's minimum to even have truly been snakebit by Carter and I think even the last guard of the haters comes around when the team is winning and Vince is producing..

    Sent from my Galaxy Nexus using Tapatalk
    You might be right.. but you are also putting a lot of faith in a fan base that boos if they don't get free pizza.

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    Quote planetmars wrote: View Post
    You might be right.. but you are also putting a lot of faith in a fan base that boos if they don't get free pizza.
    Lol true.

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  19. #96
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    Quote Raps76 wrote: View Post
    With the way Carter's been playing the last few yrs the boos would turn to cheers pretty quickly. You'd have to be in your 30's minimum to even have truly been snakebit by Carter and I think even the last guard of the haters comes around when the team is winning and Vince is producing..

    Sent from my Galaxy Nexus using Tapatalk
    Honestly, all it would take to stop the boos, would be some warm & fuzzy soundbites once Carter signs.

    "I always loved Toronto"

    "This is my 2nd home"

    "I'll never forget the great times"

    "I'm honoured to be back"

    Every media outlet will run with it, and all will be forgotten....especially if we continue winning, like you said.
    "I don't lie. I willfully participate in a campaign of misinformation." - Fox Mulder

  20. #97
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    Quote Raps76 wrote: View Post
    With the way Carter's been playing the last few yrs the boos would turn to cheers pretty quickly. You'd have to be in your 30's minimum to even have truly been snakebit by Carter and I think even the last guard of the haters comes around when the team is winning and Vince is producing..

    Sent from my Galaxy Nexus using Tapatalk
    A lot of that has to do with the fact that Rick Carlisle is a coach who won't put up with crap. Casey, on the other hand, seems to let his veterans get away with anything (exhibit A: Rudy Gay, exhibit B: Salmons). I just see the potential for Carter to bask in the glory of all the nostalgic adulation (again: Distraction) and then sink back to the old ways.

    Don't be fooled by Carter's recent, so-called improvement. Coaches like Carlisle seem to squeeze the last bit of effort and discipliine out of players that need that kick-in-the-butt to perform their best. And that's also part of the point. A veteran player is supposed to be setting an example for the younger players - that your motivation should come from within - not from the coach. Carter has never been that self-motivated type of individual. That's not the type of character to bring in.

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    Quote Nilanka wrote: View Post
    Honestly, all it would take to stop the boos, would be some warm & fuzzy soundbites once Carter signs.

    "I always loved Toronto"

    "This is my 2nd home"

    "I'll never forget the great times"

    "I'm honoured to be back"

    Every media outlet will run with it, and all will be forgotten....especially if we continue winning, like you said.
    "My mom's passport expired"

    "You only graduate once"


    I kid, I kid...

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  23. #99
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    Michelle Carter has said her and her son will be returning to Toronto. She will be available for interviews this offseason.

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    PJ Tucker, Marvin Williams, Deng, Ariza (probably going back out west), I would probably choose as my Salmons replacement over Carter if the money and term was right. We don't have a Juwan Howard or a Hakeem Olajuwon (you probably forgot he signed with us in his last season) slot on this team next year. 37/38 is still 37/38 I don't care if you are Ray Allen or Kevin Garnett, this team doesnt have that luxury to have players that are that late in their career.

    Honestly, I believe what we do with our first wing off the bench is our most important off-season decision after signing Lowry.
    -"You canít run from me. I mean, my heart donít bleed Kool-Aid."
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