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Thread: Should Casey pull the reins in on Derozan isolation's down the stretch?

  1. #81
    Raptors Republic Veteran MACK11's Avatar
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    The one thing I absolutely hate about Casey is his stubbornness. He never makes any sort of adjustment even when its not working!! He let Rudy do whatever he wanted on the offense even though he was shooting 38%. He also calls himself a defensive minded coach but never tried to get Andrea bargnani to play any defense. When demar constantly lets players blow by him on closeouts and other plays he never reprimands him! But as soon as Terrence Ross or Jonas do anything remotely bad be yanks them and yells at them. He and Masai always talk about development but by letting the younger guys see that if Coach Casey coins you the best player you don't have to play any defense! You don't have to take smart shots! You can do whatever you like because your the player Casey deemed "Our Guy"!! This is why id be extremely happy if Casey was not brought back next year! Everything he does is inconsistent from player to player

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    Raptors Republic Starter Raptor Jesus's Avatar
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    Before I get saddled with defending Casey or advocating for his contract extension, I just want to say there seems to me to be method behind his madness. Right or wrong we'll know the results of his efforts pretty soon.

    I tend to agree he's short with JV and TRoss. Though having watched coaches coddle AB perhaps airing on the stricter side is advantageous.

  3. #83
    Raptors Republic Superstar Axel's Avatar
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    The coaches job is to put his team in the best possible situation to succeed and to foster long term development.

    I don't buy that forcing DD to go 1-on-1 against a good defender is developing him in any way shape or form. DD can go at Ross in practice without the mental let-down of feeling like he has failed his teammates, coaches and fans in front of everyone. There is simply no defensible reasoning that supports this.

    ISO has been proven (and nicely pointed out in this thread) to be ineffective. This isn't the Allen Iverson days of the NBA. ISO is too simplistic to even put a strain on the defence. The D knows what is coming, can approach the possession prepared (mentally and via film room pre-scouting) and throw a wrinkle in (quick double team, adjust angles) that the individual ball handler now must adjust to on the fly. To be successful offensively, you need to put pressure on the D and force them out of their ideal positioning/rotations. ISO cannot achieve this.

    Casey deserves a F grade for late-game play calling. This isn't about Demar, it's about Casey. Casey is failing in all levels of his mandate by calling an iso with the game on the line.

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    Quote Axel wrote: View Post
    The coaches job is to put his team in the best possible situation to succeed and to foster long term development.

    I don't buy that forcing DD to go 1-on-1 against a good defender is developing him in any way shape or form. DD can go at Ross in practice without the mental let-down of feeling like he has failed his teammates, coaches and fans in front of everyone. There is simply no defensible reasoning that supports this.

    ISO has been proven (and nicely pointed out in this thread) to be ineffective. This isn't the Allen Iverson days of the NBA. ISO is too simplistic to even put a strain on the defence. The D knows what is coming, can approach the possession prepared (mentally and via film room pre-scouting) and throw a wrinkle in (quick double team, adjust angles) that the individual ball handler now must adjust to on the fly. To be successful offensively, you need to put pressure on the D and force them out of their ideal positioning/rotations. ISO cannot achieve this.

    Casey deserves a F grade for late-game play calling. This isn't about Demar, it's about Casey. Casey is failing in all levels of his mandate by calling an iso with the game on the line.
    Great post.

    If Casey really does want to get DeMar the shot, run a damn play for him to get open. Even guys like LeBron struggle to score on late game isolation plays.

    Don't understand why you'd ask DeRozan to go one on one against one of the best perimeter defenders in the league off the dribble.

  5. #85
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    Quote Axel wrote: View Post
    The coaches job is to put his team in the best possible situation to succeed and to foster long term development.

    I don't buy that forcing DD to go 1-on-1 against a good defender is developing him in any way shape or form. DD can go at Ross in practice without the mental let-down of feeling like he has failed his teammates, coaches and fans in front of everyone. There is simply no defensible reasoning that supports this.

    ISO has been proven (and nicely pointed out in this thread) to be ineffective. This isn't the Allen Iverson days of the NBA. ISO is too simplistic to even put a strain on the defence. The D knows what is coming, can approach the possession prepared (mentally and via film room pre-scouting) and throw a wrinkle in (quick double team, adjust angles) that the individual ball handler now must adjust to on the fly. To be successful offensively, you need to put pressure on the D and force them out of their ideal positioning/rotations. ISO cannot achieve this.

    Casey deserves a F grade for late-game play calling. This isn't about Demar, it's about Casey. Casey is failing in all levels of his mandate by calling an iso with the game on the line.
    Here, here. Even Lebron, Wade and Durant almost always have plays called for them in end of game situations. Very few NBA coaches actually call a heavy diet of ISOs anymore. The defensive schemes are just too good these days. Other than Casey, I can only think of 2 - Mike Brown (with Kyrie) and Mike Woodson (with Melo). And how's that working out for them?

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    Raptors Republic Superstar Rapstor4Life's Avatar
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    Pop with Parker, Phil with Kobe/Michael, Blazers, Frank vogel Paul George, Scott Brooks Kevin Durant PJ Carlisimo/Kidd Joe Johnson..


    ISOs are still heavily used in end of game situations.

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    Quote Letter N wrote: View Post
    Here's a fun stat:

    In the last minute of a game where we trail by 3-point or less this season (12 times this has happened this season) Demar Derozan is.................................2 for 11!!!!!!
    He did go 3 for 4 from the line is such situations, but 0 for 2 from 3.


    Kyle Lowry is 2 for 4, and 1 for 2 from 3.


    Edit:
    Here's the page if you want to play around with the different situations to see how little Casey pays attention to these stats.
    http://stats.nba.com/leaguePlayerClu...rowsPerPage=25
    He hit one big game winning shot at Orlando last year and ever since Casey has fallen in love with the ISO.

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    Quote Axel wrote: View Post
    The coaches job is to put his team in the best possible situation to succeed and to foster long term development.

    I don't buy that forcing DD to go 1-on-1 against a good defender is developing him in any way shape or form. DD can go at Ross in practice without the mental let-down of feeling like he has failed his teammates, coaches and fans in front of everyone. There is simply no defensible reasoning that supports this.

    ISO has been proven (and nicely pointed out in this thread) to be ineffective. This isn't the Allen Iverson days of the NBA. ISO is too simplistic to even put a strain on the defence. The D knows what is coming, can approach the possession prepared (mentally and via film room pre-scouting) and throw a wrinkle in (quick double team, adjust angles) that the individual ball handler now must adjust to on the fly. To be successful offensively, you need to put pressure on the D and force them out of their ideal positioning/rotations. ISO cannot achieve this.

    Casey deserves a F grade for late-game play calling. This isn't about Demar, it's about Casey. Casey is failing in all levels of his mandate by calling an iso with the game on the line.
    Hopefully this is not lost on MU when assessing coaching situation for next year.

  10. #89
    Raptors Republic All-Star OldSkoolCool's Avatar
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    Quote Rapstor4Life wrote: View Post
    Pop with Parker, Phil with Kobe/Michael, Blazers, Frank vogel Paul George, Scott Brooks Kevin Durant PJ Carlisimo/Kidd Joe Johnson..


    ISOs are still heavily used in end of game situations.
    Spurs don't ISO Parker. They use a high screen and roll with Duncan, with shooters to space the floor (see Leonard winner)

    Kobe is one of the few players in the NBA that can score on an ISO

    Blazers run out of the low block with Aldridge, which is a a bit different than a perimeter ISO

    Brooks does run a clear out, but the spacing is much better than what Casey told our guys to do. He leaves the left corner with only 1 guy, so the right handed pass is easy, Casey had 3 guys jammed in the left corner so there was no option there.


    Casey should not be given a new contract. He has terrible sets, his rotations are brutal and don't forget how bad his player development is, if we are to continue building through the draft (even with later picks), we need a coach that will be able to get the most out of them, not sit them unjustly for a vet.

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    Super Moderator CalgaryRapsFan's Avatar
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    Quote psrs1 wrote: View Post
    He hit one big game winning shot at Orlando last year and ever since Casey has fallen in love with the ISO.
    It's not even just DeRozan either. Casey was doing the same thing with Gay prior to the trade. This is all about poor coaching and bad play calling.

    I agree that players learn from in-game experience (other than young players like Valanciunas and Ross, apparently), but DeRozan and company should be learning how to execute effective team-oriented end-game plays in the clutch, not this ISO crap.

    I don't even have any issue with DeRozan getting the ball (although I'd prefer Lowry for his more natural dribbling and playmaking skills), but he should be given a far better opportunity to get a cleaner look at a more efficient shot, while also have definitive backup options in mind. Simply giving him the ball while the other 4 players stand around is completely ineffective and a recipe for instilling bad habits (ie: selfish play, inefficient shot selection and poor decision making). If DC truly wants to develop DeRozan and make him a better player, it needs to start with better coaching.

  13. #91
    Raptors Republic All-Star OldSkoolCool's Avatar
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    Quote CalgaryRapsFan wrote: View Post
    I agree that players learn from in-game experience (other than young players like Valanciunas and Ross, apparently), but DeRozan and company should be learning how to execute effective team-oriented end-game plays in the clutch, not this ISO crap.
    .
    Haha nicely said.

    Actually being able to execute team sets late is one of our biggest problems. We struggle as the game gets tight to run our offense because our sets pretty much just consist of pin down screens, which are useful, but we need a little more ball movement in our sets and those types of plays don't really do that.

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    Quote OldSkoolCool wrote: View Post
    Haha nicely said.

    Actually being able to execute team sets late is one of our biggest problems. We struggle as the game gets tight to run our offense because our sets pretty much just consist of pin down screens, which are useful, but we need a little more ball movement in our sets and those types of plays don't really do that.
    How nice would it be to have an established, consistent low-post threat to run plays through, especially late in games and/or during critical moments?

    I think that has to be a top offseason priority for this team. Johnson, Patterson and Hansborough are all effective backups, but I personally feel an upgrade at the starting PF position would immensely help this team. It would also help the perimeter guys like Lowry, DeRozan and Ross, by preventing defenses from hedging against them and ideally from requiring occasional double-teams to be thrown down low.

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    Raptors Republic All-Star OldSkoolCool's Avatar
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    Quote CalgaryRapsFan wrote: View Post
    How nice would it be to have an established, consistent low-post threat to run plays through, especially late in games and/or during critical moments?

    I think that has to be a top offseason priority for this team. Johnson, Patterson and Hansborough are all effective backups, but I personally feel an upgrade at the starting PF position would immensely help this team. It would also help the perimeter guys like Lowry, DeRozan and Ross, by preventing defenses from hedging against them and ideally from requiring occasional double-teams to be thrown down low.
    I agree. As much as I want Val to turn into that low post scorer I really don't see it happening at this point. I think it would be best if we can turn him into an anchor ala Hibbert, who has the ability to score but it isn't his focus. Having that low post threat gives the ability to suck the D will help spread the floor so much for Lowry and Ross for the three, and allow us to swing the ball more effectively, going inside/out.

    Hansborough, Amir and Pattman are just that, backups/energy guys. I think Pattman has earned his spot on this team for the future as the backup PF; plays hard and is a great way to provide a different look offensively if we have that low post PF. It then comes down to Amir and Hansborough, in which I think I like Amir more, due to his D and better size to guard the C than Tyler, Amir is also a fan favorite and has been a great community guy. MU has a ton of decisions to make this offseason.

    Honestly if we have a chance at grabbing any player in the draft who already has a post game (thinking Vonleh here) it would massively help our team going forward in terms of fit. And we need more three point shooting to compliment that post presence.

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