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Thread: Should Casey pull the reins in on Derozan isolation's down the stretch?

  1. #21
    Raptors Republic All-Star Letter N's Avatar
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    Here's a fun stat:

    In the last minute of a game where we trail by 3-point or less this season (12 times this has happened this season) Demar Derozan is.................................2 for 11!!!!!!
    He did go 3 for 4 from the line is such situations, but 0 for 2 from 3.


    Kyle Lowry is 2 for 4, and 1 for 2 from 3.


    Edit:
    Here's the page if you want to play around with the different situations to see how little Casey pays attention to these stats.
    http://stats.nba.com/leaguePlayerClu...rowsPerPage=25

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    Raptors Republic Superstar Chr1s1anL's Avatar
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    Quote Nilanka wrote: View Post
    I have a hard time believing that Casey looks beyond 1 game at a time. I think he honestly believes that a Demar ISO was the best play to win last night.
    He doesn't believe it now but, he believe by putting him these situation now will make him a better player. Which I agree.


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    Quote Chr1s1anL wrote: View Post
    He doesn't believe it now but, he believe by putting him these situation now will make him a better player. Which I agree.


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    He's had a few years of being in this situation. When does experience lead to results?

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    Raptors Republic Superstar Chr1s1anL's Avatar
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    Quote Letter N wrote: View Post
    He's had a few years of being in this situation. When does experience lead to results?
    I believe in his work ethic probably just like Casey does. It's only a matter of time. You have to understand no feels worse about that possession than DD. He'll get better. I give props to Casey for potential scarifying is job for putting DD in those situations. That's how you know his all about the players and not himself. Selfless. Love that man!


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    Quote Chr1s1anL wrote: View Post
    I believe in his work ethic probably just like Casey does. It's only a matter of time. You have to understand no feels worse about that possession than DD. He'll get better. I give props to Casey for potential scarifying is job for putting DD in those situations. That's how you know his all about the players and not himself. Selfless. Love that man!


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    I love results more.

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    Raptors Republic Superstar Chr1s1anL's Avatar
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    Quote Letter N wrote: View Post
    I love results more.
    What does Masai been preaching? Patience.


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    Quote Chr1s1anL wrote: View Post
    What does Masai been preaching? Patience.


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    You can be patient with a square peg all you want but eventually you'll have to accept that it won't fit into a round hole.

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    Raptors Republic Superstar Chr1s1anL's Avatar
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    Quote Letter N wrote: View Post
    You can be patient with a square peg all you want but eventually you'll have to accept that it won't fit into a round hole.
    Just like DD was never going to be an All-Star right?


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  11. #29
    Raptors Republic Starter Just Is's Avatar
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    Quote Chr1s1anL wrote: View Post
    I believe in his work ethic probably just like Casey does. It's only a matter of time. You have to understand no feels worse about that possession than DD. He'll get better. I give props to Casey for potential scarifying is job for putting DD in those situations. That's how you know his all about the players and not himself. Selfless. Love that man!


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    I think we've seen enough from Casey to know that this is just not true. This was his game plan when Gay was here too. He's not thinking "develop Demar" here...he honestly thinks its the best option (end game iso). There's honestly been more than enough evidence this season and earlier that this is just not a good position to put Demar in. I'm not even saying don't let him have the last shot...just don't put him in such a horrible position where you're hoping the refs bail you out. Demar's handles JUST aren't good enough (yet) for it (though, at least this time, no dribbling off his own foot).

    Ball should have been Lowry's hands (something thats been echoed). No iso, movement. Have Ross and Demar running off screens; pick and pop with Patterson; pick and roll with Amir; park Novak in a corner for a drive and kick...there are so many options significantly better with the ball in Lowry's hands in these situations (and thats not including him taking a shot or driving if a lane opens).

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    Quote Just Is wrote: View Post
    I think we've seen enough from Casey to know that this is just not true. This was his game plan when Gay was here too. He's not thinking "develop Demar" here...he honestly thinks its the best option (end game iso). There's honestly been more than enough evidence this season and earlier that this is just not a good position to put Demar in. I'm not even saying don't let him have the last shot...just don't put him in such a horrible position where you're hoping the refs bail you out. Demar's handles JUST aren't good enough (yet) for it (though, at least this time, no dribbling off his own foot).

    Ball should have been Lowry's hands (something thats been echoed). No iso, movement. Have Ross and Demar running off screens; pick and pop with Patterson; pick and roll with Amir; park Novak in a corner for a drive and kick...there are so many options significantly better with the ball in Lowry's hands in these situations (and thats not including him taking a shot or driving if a lane opens).
    Rudy Gay was proven big shot maker. He wants DD to develop into that. In the long run it will be best for the team.


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    Raptors Republic Superstar Rapstor4Life's Avatar
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    should of ran a play which results in a DD making the shot not straight up Iso from the start, or at least should of helped him with a screen set. DD will get it soon enough also the guy had 32 points he hits big shots all the time.... the other guys have to help him out.

    Don't let your love of epic buzzer beaters belittle what DeMar is doing this season.

  14. #32
    Raptors Republic Veteran Nilanka's Avatar
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    Quote Chr1s1anL wrote: View Post
    Rudy Gay was proven big shot maker. He wants DD to develop into that. In the long run it will be best for the team.


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    Can't see it happening. DeRozan's been in the league for 5 years now, and still hasn't developed the ball-handling skills required to break down a defender in an isolation. There's very little reason to think he'll develop this fundamental skill 6-10 years into his career.

    This was simply a gaffe by Casey.
    Last edited by Nilanka; Thu Feb 20th, 2014 at 12:02 PM.
    "I don't lie. I willfully participate in a campaign of misinformation." - Fox Mulder

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  16. #33
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    Quote Chr1s1anL wrote: View Post
    Rudy Gay was proven big shot maker. He wants DD to develop into that. In the long run it will be best for the team.


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    He's on the last year on his contract with a new GM. He's not thinking past "win as much games as possible." The comparison to Rudy is also not a good one here considering Rudy was/is a much better ballhandler than Demar at this point, which is what is crucial for ISO plays to begin with.

    Not to mention, you can STILL have DD develop into that with better play calling. The definition of insanity is trying the same thing over and over again and expecting different results. Until he has better handles, this is NOT something you go for if you want to win.

  17. #34
    Raptors Republic Superstar Chr1s1anL's Avatar
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    Agree to disagree than gentlemen.


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    Quote Chr1s1anL wrote: View Post
    It's called player development fellas. Obviously Dd has more of certain future on this team than Lowry. By Casey putting him in these situations now it prepares him for the future. Casey has said numerous times that development is still one of the priorities.


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    I agree. DD is also developing into that number 1 option for this team. Clearly he's not a closer yet, but he's only 24 and hopefully will learn from these experiences.

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    Quote special1 wrote: View Post
    I agree. DD is also developing into that number 1 option for this team. Clearly he's not a closer yet, but he's only 24 and hopefully will learn from these experiences.
    24 doesn't get an "Only" beside it in the NBA.

  20. #37
    Raptors Republic Veteran Nilanka's Avatar
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    Quote Letter N wrote: View Post
    Here's a fun stat:

    In the last minute of a game where we trail by 3-point or less this season (12 times this has happened this season) Demar Derozan is.................................2 for 11!!!!!!
    He did go 3 for 4 from the line is such situations, but 0 for 2 from 3.


    Kyle Lowry is 2 for 4, and 1 for 2 from 3.


    Edit:
    Here's the page if you want to play around with the different situations to see how little Casey pays attention to these stats.
    http://stats.nba.com/leaguePlayerClu...rowsPerPage=25
    Hey stat geek, do you not watch games?!?!? Don't you remember that buzzer beater at Orlando last year???

    Betta recognize, son!
    "I don't lie. I willfully participate in a campaign of misinformation." - Fox Mulder

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  22. #38
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    Quote Nilanka wrote: View Post
    Hey stat geek, do you not watch games?!?!? Don't you remember that buzzer beater at Orlando last year???

    Betta recognize, son!

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  24. #39
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    Quote Letter N wrote: View Post
    Here's a fun stat:

    In the last minute of a game where we trail by 3-point or less this season (12 times this has happened this season) Demar Derozan is.................................2 for 11!!!!!!
    He did go 3 for 4 from the line is such situations, but 0 for 2 from 3.


    Kyle Lowry is 2 for 4, and 1 for 2 from 3.


    Edit:
    Here's the page if you want to play around with the different situations to see how little Casey pays attention to these stats.
    http://stats.nba.com/leaguePlayerClu...rowsPerPage=25
    And we're not talking about a bunch of near misses. We're talking airballs, blocked shots, contested shots with no hope of going in. Plus turnovers, which aren't counted here.

    I've enjoyed Demar's season so far, but our end of game strategy clearly needs work.

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  26. #40
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    And all this support of this decision is still overlooking key elements:

    -Breaking his man down off the dribble is far from DD's strength. This doesn't mean he'll never get better at it. It just means you don't run tons of iso plays for him. Many of his plays in game, even where he ends up in a de facto "iso" are with him coming around screens, meaning if he acts quickly he has some space to work with, or that the defender is somewhat off balance or out of position. And a lot of other plays are assisted by a screener. Giving him the ball at the top and asking him to create something out of nothing is a low % play for him. And it doesn't have to be the play you run. There are lots of quality scorers in the history of the game who would need a proper play run for them to create some space, who you wouldn't run an iso for even to take the last shot. It's not a big deal to not be an elite one-on-one clutch player.

    -Jimmy Butler is one of the best perimeter defenders in the league. You definitely don't run iso plays to attack him. That's just insanity. It's even an uninspired play if you have LeBron or KD, and the big reason it's mostly acceptable with those guys isn't just that they're elite talents, but that they have the size/athleticism to shoot over just about any perimeter defender. If you run a more complex play, you may even force a switch, so that then even if it ends up in an iso situation, it could be a better matchup. It was a truly basic play that was, again, likely the lowest % possibility available to the Raptors if they wanted to give DeMar the shot.

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