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Thread: Should Casey pull the reins in on Derozan isolation's down the stretch?

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    Raptors Republic Starter special1's Avatar
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    Quote Letter N wrote: View Post
    24 doesn't get an "Only" beside it in the NBA.
    If you say so.

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    Raptors Republic Starter special1's Avatar
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    Quote Nilanka wrote: View Post
    Can't see it happening. DeRozan's been in the league for 5 years now, and still hasn't developed the ball-handling skills required to break down a defender in an isolation. There's very little reason to think he'll develop this fundamental skill 6-10 years into his career.

    This was simply a gaffe by Casey.
    Now where have i seen this written before.....hmmm.... rinse and repeat. Sounds very similar to the argument you made last year. I guess we'll see won't we?

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    Raptors Republic Veteran Nilanka's Avatar
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    Quote special1 wrote: View Post
    Now where have i seen this written before.....hmmm.... rinse and repeat. Sounds very similar to the argument you made last year. I guess we'll see won't we?
    Except, he HASN'T improved his ball handling since last year....

    Besides, this is less about DeRozan, and more about Casey being an idiot.
    "I don't lie. I willfully participate in a campaign of misinformation." - Fox Mulder

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    Raptors Republic All-Star Mr.Z's Avatar
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    Demar improves on things whenever he focuses in on improving those specific things in the off season.
    There is no reason to believe that if he goes into the off season and focuses on getting a better handle that he wont improve.
    "You clearly don't know who you're talking to, so let me clue you in: I am not in danger, Skyler. I am the danger. A guy opens his door and gets shot, and you think that of me? No! I am the one who knocks!"

    - Walter White

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    Raptors Republic All-Star BigCamB's Avatar
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    Quote Nilanka wrote: View Post

    Besides, this is less about DeRozan, and more about Casey being an idiot.
    This. Very much this.

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    Raptors Republic Veteran Nilanka's Avatar
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    Quote Mr.Z wrote: View Post
    Demar improves on things whenever he focuses in on improving those specific things in the off season.
    There is no reason to believe that if he goes into the off season and focuses on getting a better handle that he wont improve.
    That's a scary thought: That after 4.5 seasons as a pro, DeRozan hasn't worked on his handles before
    "I don't lie. I willfully participate in a campaign of misinformation." - Fox Mulder

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    Good lord! Never letting up on the guy. He spills his guts out for this team every game. Without his play for 47 minutes, the game isn't even close, but jump all over him for not making the play he was clearly fouled on, but not called.

    Quote Letter N wrote: View Post
    Here's a fun stat:

    In the last minute of a game where we trail by 3-point or less this season (12 times this has happened this season) Demar Derozan is.................................2 for 11!!!!!!
    He did go 3 for 4 from the line is such situations, but 0 for 2 from 3.


    Kyle Lowry is 2 for 4, and 1 for 2 from 3.


    Edit:
    Here's the page if you want to play around with the different situations to see how little Casey pays attention to these stats.
    http://stats.nba.com/leaguePlayerClu...rowsPerPage=25
    Implying the shot should have gone to 4/13, in the game, Lowry? Coaches don't usually go with the cold hand. But I played around with that page. Last minute, tied or behind:

    DeMar DeRozan... 3/15 = 20%

    Paul George........ 2/12 = 16.7%

    Carmelo Anthony. 1/19 = 5.3%

    Chris Paul........... 1/9 = 11.1%

    KD.................... 4/12 = 33.3%

    James Harden...... 3/9 = 33.3%

    John Wall........... 6/18 = 33.3%

    Seeing any big numbers from these "superstars? Paul George, Melo, CP3 shouldn't have the ball at that point? KD, Harden are iffy?

    Looks a little different when taken into context of how difficult it is at that point in a game, especially when there's been so little help from the rest of the team all game?

    Quote special1 wrote: View Post
    Now where have i seen this written before.....hmmm.... rinse and repeat. Sounds very similar to the argument you made last year. I guess we'll see won't we?
    Yup. "he is what he is" grasping at straws with the slightest opening. people hate being wrong.

    Quote Nilanka wrote: View Post
    Except, he HASN'T improved his ball handling since last year....

    Besides, this is less about DeRozan, and more about Casey being an idiot.
    You can't seriously be trying to say this. *boggled mind*

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    Raptors Republic Veteran Nilanka's Avatar
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    Quote salmon wrote: View Post
    You can't seriously be trying to say this. *boggled mind*
    p00ka, it boggles my mind that I have a better crossover dribble than an NBA all-star shooting guard.
    "I don't lie. I willfully participate in a campaign of misinformation." - Fox Mulder

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    Quote Nilanka wrote: View Post
    Except, he HASN'T improved his ball handling since last year....

    Besides, this is less about DeRozan, and more about Casey being an idiot.
    Yet you keep going on about his handles, even claiming, inaccurately, that they haven't improved.

    Quote Nilanka wrote: View Post
    That's a scary thought: That after 4.5 seasons as a pro, DeRozan hasn't worked on his handles before

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    Raptors Republic Veteran Nilanka's Avatar
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    Quote salmon wrote: View Post
    Yet you keep going on about his handles, even claiming, inaccurately, that they haven't improved.
    Context, p00ka, context.

    We're talking about the final possession of the game last night. Has DeRozan's handles "improved" to the point of being a reliable 1-on-1 player in space? Gawd no.

    Therefore his handles' improvements in the context of this thread, are meaningless.

    And again, this isn't me shitting on DeRozan. This is me calling out Casey for relying on a poor ISO player, to perform in an ISO.
    "I don't lie. I willfully participate in a campaign of misinformation." - Fox Mulder

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    Quote Nilanka wrote: View Post
    p00ka, it boggles my mind that I have a better crossover dribble than an NBA all-star shooting guard.
    I understand you've got a bigger ego too, but where has that gotten you?

    PS. this p00ka snivel is getting pathetic. Really, that's the best you clowns got?

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    Raptors Republic Veteran white men can't jump's Avatar
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    Quote Mr.Z wrote: View Post
    Demar improves on things whenever he focuses in on improving those specific things in the off season.
    There is no reason to believe that if he goes into the off season and focuses on getting a better handle that he wont improve.
    And his handle has improved. It's just nothing special. And maybe he can take it up a notch or two...

    But that isn't the point. The point is it was a badly drawn play, both because of who you're running it for and who you're running it against. I can't imagine being one of his assistants in that timeout. Having to keep my mouth shut so I don't get fired when Casey says "ok guys, we're running an iso for DeMar, so just flatten out and let him go to work"....

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    Raptors Republic Veteran Nilanka's Avatar
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    Quote salmon wrote: View Post
    PS. this p00ka snivel is getting pathetic. Really, that's the best you clowns got?
    Changing your screen name for the umpteenth time, doesn't pass as "pathetic"?
    "I don't lie. I willfully participate in a campaign of misinformation." - Fox Mulder

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    Raptors Republic Veteran MACK11's Avatar
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    Okay the one thing we can all agree about is the Casey does not know what to do in late game situations (play calling). And since were more then likely to be in the playoffs,there is gonna be more and more late game situations like this. Also its to late to fire Casey we just have to hope we avoid close games somehow in the playoffs because Casey will get out coached and we will lose unless Casey uses his brain and realizes that DD is not an ISO player and Lowry should have the ball in his hands in all clutch situations!!!

  18. #55
    Raptors Republic Starter Just Is's Avatar
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    Quote salmon wrote: View Post
    Good lord! Never letting up on the guy. He spills his guts out for this team every game. Without his play for 47 minutes, the game isn't even close, but jump all over him for not making the play he was clearly fouled on, but not called.



    Implying the shot should have gone to 4/13, in the game, Lowry? Coaches don't usually go with the cold hand. But I played around with that page. Last minute, tied or behind:

    DeMar DeRozan... 3/15 = 20%

    Paul George........ 2/12 = 16.7%

    Carmelo Anthony. 1/19 = 5.3%

    Chris Paul........... 1/9 = 11.1%

    KD.................... 4/12 = 33.3%

    James Harden...... 3/9 = 33.3%

    John Wall........... 6/18 = 33.3%

    Seeing any big numbers from these "superstars? Paul George, Melo, CP3 shouldn't have the ball at that point? KD, Harden are iffy?

    Looks a little different when taken into context of how difficult it is at that point in a game, especially when there's been so little help from the rest of the team all game?



    Yup. "he is what he is" grasping at straws with the slightest opening. people hate being wrong.



    You can't seriously be trying to say this. *boggled mind*
    Just gotta say this form the get-go, Demar was NOT fouled on that play. If you really want to nitpick and say he was fouled, you then would have to acknowledge that before the "foul," he travelled.

    Second of all, the thing that those stats don't include are the amount of times, in those same situations, that Demar has been unable to get a shot off or lost it due to turnover, so those numbers actually make Demar look better than he actually performs here. Not to mention, I'd be willing to bet a good amount of money that the shots those other players get are set up much better (given that they're all better ball-handlers; whether its through an ISO or a play), increasing the actual chance of a basket going in. Not all misses are equal.

    The third thing: I don't think anyone is faulting Demar here. I'm a big fan of the guy but he was put in a very bad situation here. He just does not have the ball handling skills necessary here. I don't think he will ever be a great ballhandler (you usually can tell from the get-go if someone has that possibility) but I do absolutely think he can possibly become good at it BUT he's not there this season. Putting the ball in Lowry's hands creates significantly more avenues to go down with significantly higher success simply through virtue of being a better ballhandler and having much higher BB IQ. And this is before you even take into account who was guarding Demar and which of the two guards would have been guarding Lowry which makes the decision that much worse.
    Last edited by Just Is; Thu Feb 20th, 2014 at 01:58 PM.

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    Raptors Republic Veteran MACK11's Avatar
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    Quote salmon wrote: View Post
    I understand you've got a bigger ego too, but where has that gotten you?

    PS. this p00ka snivel is getting pathetic. Really, that's the best you clowns got?
    Anyone that has been on RR for more than 2 months would realize you are p00ka haha

    Your writing styles are exactly the same and you both have the same stance on DD abilities ahahah

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    Quote Nilanka wrote: View Post
    Changing your screen name for the umpteenth time, doesn't pass as "pathetic"?
    *smh* Way to divert the topic to your petty bs.

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    Quote Just Is wrote: View Post
    Just gotta say this form the get-go, Demar was NOT fouled on that play. If you really want to nitpick and say he was fouled, you then would have to acknowledge that before the "foul," he travelled.

    Second of all, the thing that those stats don't include are the amount of times, in those same situations, that Demar has been unable to get a shot off or lost it due to turnover, so those numbers actually make Demar look better than he actually performs here.

    The third thing: I don't think anyone is faulting Demar here. I'm a big fan of the guy but he was put in a very bad situation here. He just does not have the ball handling skills necessary here. I don't think he will ever be a great ballhandler (you usually can tell from the get-go if someone has that possibility) but I do absolutely think he can possibly become good at it BUT he's not there this season. Putting the ball in Lowry's hands creates significantly more avenues to go down with significantly higher success simply through virtue of being a better ballhandler and having much higher BB IQ. And this is before you even take into account who was guarding Demar and which of the two guards would have been guarding Lowry which makes the decision that much worse.
    This.

    You can even essentially run the play for DeMar but through Lowry. Hinrich was matched up against Lowry (I think), and if you create a situation where the D is suddenly worried about Lowry attacking him, possibly using a screen...Then you can also create lots of off-the-ball movement that might cause the D to make a mistake, especially if they're worried about the on-ball matchup.

    Again, the problem wasn't that Casey wanted DeMar to take the last shot, it was the type of play he ran to get that last shot.

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    Raptors Republic Veteran Nilanka's Avatar
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    Quote salmon wrote: View Post
    *smh* Way to divert the topic to your petty bs.
    p00ka FTW!!! [Marv Albert voice]

    YESSS!!!
    "I don't lie. I willfully participate in a campaign of misinformation." - Fox Mulder

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  26. #60
    Raptors Republic Starter Just Is's Avatar
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    Quote white men can't jump wrote: View Post
    This.

    You can even essentially run the play for DeMar but through Lowry. Hinrich was matched up against Lowry (I think), and if you create a situation where the D is suddenly worried about Lowry attacking him, possibly using a screen...Then you can also create lots of off-the-ball movement that might cause the D to make a mistake, especially if they're worried about the on-ball matchup.

    Again, the problem wasn't that Casey wanted DeMar to take the last shot, it was the type of play he ran to get that last shot.
    It absolutely wouldn't be hard to have come up with either. High screen, have Lowry drive, D absolutely would be worried about that given the match up (I couldn't remember if DJ or Hinrich was on Lowry on the last play), that would definitely free someone up for Lowry to kick to. Even better if you have an offball screen freeing Demar up as well.

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