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Thread: Is this season a success if we make the play offs?

  1. #41
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    Quote GoingBig wrote: View Post
    I think there are corporate goals that have been achieved this year
    • got rid of Bargnani and ended that endlessly dead-end story
    • tried the Rudy Gay experience (6-12) - and calmly ended that BC gambling story with a good trade
    • the record since the trade is 24-13 (.649) and is a short-term success that has started to change the Raptors' league-wide story
    • DeRozan's rise to all-star reduces the story that the Raptors team is a place that never develops talent
    • Even with Lowry gone, if Ujiri wants to be totally short-term and just plug-in a top-level PG, the supporting cast (all-star DD, JV, TR) would make this 2nd-tier destination (not having to pay extra)
    • killed the 5-years-without-playoffs albatross that killed BC
    • Playoffs!!! Revenues + excitement + Raptors focus
    • if the Raptors end up in 6th position, there's good chance of 2nd round appearance


    The longer term step of going from .600~.650 team to contender has not been addressed - that's going to have to touch the current core of DD, JV, TR, Amir the Hamir
    I really like this post ...

  2. #42
    Raptors Republic All-Star Jclaw's Avatar
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    I'll post this is in the game thread also but I think it speaks to some of the success of the team this year. There may be some bad teams but everyone gets to play against them.

    It's not just about Lowry...It's about the 3 spot.

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    Quote Jamshid wrote: View Post
    But wouldn't success depend on its continuity and taking steps forward ? What is the goal here ? You can not take a championship in one season BUT you can take the right steps toward building a team that can do that.

    The problem with BC was that the continuity was never there. every season we had 8-9 new guys and new plans and ... But he still enjoyed the support of 90% of the fans here.

    This is why I think the goal for next season should be defined ...
    Defined by who? The fans? Seriously, there's an old expression that if a GM listens to the fans on how to manage his team, he soon becomes one of them.

    Our GM's goals have been well documented, but not defined by year, as he knows there are too many variables, within and without, to be defining end-game goals over short periods. Much has been achieved this season. Let's see what happens in the playoffs, draft, and off-season, before making a "fan goals" for next season.

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  5. #44
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    Quote Jamshid wrote: View Post
    But wouldn't success depend on its continuity and taking steps forward ? What is the goal here ? You can not take a championship in one season BUT you can take the right steps toward building a team that can do that.

    The problem with BC was that the continuity was never there. every season we had 8-9 new guys and new plans and ... But he still enjoyed the support of 90% of the fans here.

    This is why I think the goal for next season should be defined ...
    We can't judge this year based on next year. It's just too nebulous, way too much can happen between now and then. We will literally have to wait until right before the beginning of next season before we can start setting expectations because we don't even know who will be on the team or who will be coaching the team. A tear down for draft picks could still happen in the offseason, which would drastically lower expectations. Also, the addition of a significant veteran talent via FA or trade could happen, which would obviously raise expectations.

    The BC era was a failure because other than his first season he failed to deliver even close to preseason expectations, and preseason expectations were usually pretty damn low. He failed to get us in the playoffs when that was the goal, and he failed to get us a top pick when that was the goal. If we targeted the top pick in 2006, that's an even bigger fail since it was well known ahead of time that draft would suck.

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  7. #45
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    Quote salmon wrote: View Post
    Defined by who? The fans? Seriously, there's an old expression that if a GM listens to the fans on how to manage his team, he soon becomes one of them.

    Our GM's goals have been well documented, but not defined by year, as he knows there are too many variables, within and without, to be defining end-game goals over short periods. Much has been achieved this season. Let's see what happens in the playoffs, draft, and off-season, before making a "fan goals" for next season.
    Defined by the GM of course ... so what are they ? Is it to rebuild via draft ? Is it to compete this year and next year ? There are variables but don't you think the key is to stick to the plan ... The only plan that I have heard from the GM is to not be stuck in the middle and personally I think this team has talent level that can not compete at high level.

    I am very curious to see what we will do this off season and in the draft. I am not sure if he will go after a big time FA or will try ti use guys like lowry and 2Pat and ... to get more draft picks ...

    One thing for sure is that what ever MU does this summer and next year will be well supported by the fans in Toronto just like it was in BC era and that is because there is no well defined expatiation from this team within near future.
    Last edited by Jamshid; Sun Feb 23rd, 2014 at 02:58 PM.

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    Quote Jclaw wrote: View Post
    I'll post this is in the game thread also but I think it speaks to some of the success of the team this year. There may be some bad teams but everyone gets to play against them.

    This year is a very unusual year. Almost half of the league is tanking and few others have been decimated by injuries ...

  9. #47
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    Quote Jamshid wrote: View Post
    This year is a very unusual year. Almost half of the league is tanking and few others have been decimated by injuries ...
    Or perhaps the new norm with the new CBA now fully in effect.

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    Raptors Republic Starter JordanMariam14's Avatar
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    Do you guys realize if we didn't release Augustin Bulls wouldn't be this good, and we'd be 31-24 right now? Hah

    Sent from my HTC One using Tapatalk

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    Quote Jamshid wrote: View Post
    This year is a very unusual year. Almost half of the league is tanking and few others have been decimated by injuries ...
    15 teams are tanking this year? B.S. Really? Name them.

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  14. #50
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    Quote JordanMariam14 wrote: View Post
    Do you guys realize if we didn't release Augustin Bulls wouldn't be this good, and we'd be 31-24 right now? Hah

    Sent from my HTC One using Tapatalk
    LMAO right. It's crazy how good he's playing for that team. I don't know if he would have played that well if he was still on our team though. I really think it's fit for him right now.

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    It's the coaching, and the fit of the team.

    Sometimes a change of scenery is good for people!

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    Raptors Republic Hall of Famer mcHAPPY's Avatar
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    Quote Jclaw wrote: View Post
    I'll post this is in the game thread also but I think it speaks to some of the success of the team this year. There may be some bad teams but everyone gets to play against them.

    Nice.
    "Championships are what we live for, now lets go win them."
    Tim Leiweke

    Basketball has clear winners every night --
    except at the draft, which is all homework, politics and chance.

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    Quote GLF wrote: View Post
    LMAO right. It's crazy how good he's playing for that team. I don't know if he would have played that well if he was still on our team though. I really think it's fit for him right now.
    Or the Bulls would have picked up another scrub PG and turned him into a half-decent player. Thibs is just a great coach and Noah is a a pain in the ass competitor who truly hates to lose. Give Thibs a D-League roster plus Noah and he still makes the playoffs.

  18. #54
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    Quote golden wrote: View Post
    Or the Bulls would have picked up another scrub PG and turned him into a half-decent player. Thibs is just a great coach and Noah is a a pain in the ass competitor who truly hates to lose. Give Thibs a D-League roster plus Noah and he still makes the playoffs.
    I'm surprised that they didn't trade for Pierre Jackson. I get that augustin has been really good for them, but you're still giving starter minutes to DJ augustin on a playoff roster. You can use a scorer
    @Boymusic66

  19. #55
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    Like many I was hoping they would tank and was disappointed that the trade made the team better rather than worse, but it would be ridiculous to look at the record and a likely play-off berth and call the season a failure. What makes the case valid is the fact that they're not doing it by fluke or any such thing. They are a legitimate contender that opponents have begun to respect.

    Yes it's possible that we fans will be disappointed on draft day and it's also possible that we'll look at players turn into stars only to say "they could have been ours" but this season cannot be judged on possible future disappointments.
    Attitude Is A Choice.

  20. #56
    Raptors Republic Superstar iblastoff's Avatar
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    Quote Jclaw wrote: View Post
    I'll post this is in the game thread also but I think it speaks to some of the success of the team this year. There may be some bad teams but everyone gets to play against them.

    we're also within top 10 in lowest turnover ratios (8th) and offensive rebound rate (8th).

    not surprisingly though, we're 18th in effective FG%.

  21. #57
    Raptors Republic Veteran MACK11's Avatar
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    Quote iblastoff wrote: View Post
    we're also within top 10 in lowest turnover ratios (8th) and offensive rebound rate (8th).

    not surprisingly though, we're 18th in effective FG%.
    Rudy Gay best skill was to pad Amir and JV's offensive rebounding
    He's 2 years away from being 2 years away, but his wingspan is already here .

  22. #58
    Raptors Republic All-Star ezz_bee's Avatar
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    I wasn't going to go into much detail, because other posters have done a great job of making my points for me, but then I started writing my post and realized that I'm a debbie downer... but I do finish off on a positive note. So I've split the post into two sections, which I've helpfully titled "Negative Nancy" and "Positive Pete". Skip to the "Positive Pete" section if you're worried I'll spoil your Kool-Aid




    Part 1: Negative Nancy

    My definition of success is making tangible strides towards the ultimate goal (Finals appearance). With that goal in mind, and despite the increase in financial flexibility (which is good) it would be difficult/impossible for me to declare this season a success under any circumstances.

    I'm a sustainability guy, so 1 year of success isn't going to do it for me (unless it ends with a finals appearance). I think that the Raptors gave up a lot in terms of opportunity cost in not tanking. I still believe the follow statements...

    You need ELITE talent to win it all (Raptors don't have it)

    The best odds for getting ELITE talent are in the draft

    The higher the draft pick the better the odds of getting great talent

    With the amount of protections teams are putting on traded picks the odds of getting a top five pick from another team seems to be trending down. The best bet to get a top 5 pick is have it be your own.

    Most importantly, you need great management (I Hope/Faith the raptors have it).

    It's been obvious since Dolan nixed the lowry deal in Dec. that we are not tanking this year. I've never been a tank or bust poster, and at the end of the day it seems that the stars were aligned against us in trying to tank this year. I also believe...


    Part 2: Positive Pete!

    UJIRI>ME when it comes to b-ball smarts.

    Even though we still don't have the elite talent needed to get to the finals, I'm reserving judgement on Masai (he gets until the trade deadline next season to show me that he's on a path to getting us to the finals) because the tank just didn't seem to be in the cards.

    So I'm willing to come up with a new measure of success. And I am currently drinking the Kool-Aid.

    Let's break the franchise win record for the regular and/or playoffs.

    That means 48 or more wins in the regular season. Meaning they'll have to go 17-9 (as of Sunday's win) down the stretch. With their current record and strength of schedule it's possible. They are the better team in more than 17 of those games. The question will be, "Do they have what it takes mentally?"

    AND/OR

    For the playoffs it means 7 wins, which would require us to get to game seven versus either the Heat or Pacers. I think we've got a better shot at going to 7 games against the Heat, as they have a history of letting lesser teams get wins against in the playoffs and a history of letting series go to seven games. Although we went 7 games against the Sixers, we only got 3 wins in the first round as it was a best of five, meaning our current record is 6 wins.

    So there it is. Strong finish to regular season and/or strong showing in the second round is enough for me to be okay with the fact that this may be a spin the wheels year in terms of the overall goal.

    Sometimes Kool-Aid tastes good! Go Raps Go!

    Last edited by ezz_bee; Mon Feb 24th, 2014 at 03:42 AM.
    "We only have one rule on this team. What is that rule? E.L.E. That's right's, E.L.E, and what does E.L.E. stand for? EVERYBODY LOVE EVERYBODY. Right there up on the wall, because this isn't just a basketball team, this is a lifestyle. ~ Jackie Moon

  23. #59
    Raptors Republic All-Star Fully's Avatar
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    The team continues to roll in the wake of the Gay trade, and seems poised to host a playoff series in the opening round. Ujiri has cleared up the cap situation a bit, and has managed to collect a few assets while moving players that were hurting the team anyways in two separate deals.

    I still have my questions about what will happen with Lowry this summer, or how the team will be able to make the next step forward from good team to true contender (which isn't a problem unique to the Raptors by the way)... but it's hard to call this season anything but a resounding success for the franchise.

  24. #60
    Raptors Republic Starter 3inthekeon's Avatar
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    Quote golden wrote: View Post
    15 teams are tanking this year? B.S. Really? Name them.
    By my count, only 6 teams tried to tank. Philly has done the best job and has remained committed. Orlando and Boston are close. Utah went into offseason tank mode, but didn't commit further. Toronto and Phoenix saw their tank plans derailed.

    All the other crappy teams thought they were going to be competitive, and not one of them went into true tank mode even when reality smashed them in the face.

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