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Is this season a success if we make the play offs?

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  • #16
    Not so much about whether we make the playoffs making us a success to me. It's a nice bonus for sure though with everyone getting a taste of what it takes to win, and how to do it.

    I think the biggest success this season is the imprint Lowry has had on Ross and Val, how he has taught them how to conduct themselves on the court and be winners. This can't go understated IMO.

    Comment


    • #17
      2kfeen wrote: View Post
      Coming into this season, a realistic expectation was 7th seed (at best) to 10th seed (at worst).
      We exceeded our own expectations and have a pretty financially flexible roster that has many oppourtunities now.
      Our players are basically all trade-able and are fairly young.
      Great point about the expectation at the beginning of the season. That being said, doesn't the quality of the east cast a shadow on our success and exceeding expectations.

      Lets look at East right now:
      The 5 seed in east has a LOOSING record of of 26-28 !!! I wonder what was the record of the fifth seed in east last season at this time ?

      Then looking at west, with our record we would be standing at 10th spot.

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      • #18
        I wish i had add the next questions to my original post and knew what you guys thought about them.

        1) if this season is already success, then what is your expectation for this team for the next season ?

        2) Do we need to get passed the 1st round in the play offs next season to consider it success or MU can relax about seriously competing for next season ?

        Comment


        • #19
          Jamshid wrote: View Post
          If these were the goals, then I agree this is successful season and confirms why MU did not make a move to improve the team further for the play offs.

          However, I wonder why collecting more assets was not one of the primary goals for this season as well
          ??
          Because it would still be a trade-off of some kind. I'm sure Masai would've loved to collect more assets, but the price has to be right.

          I mean, if no one was willing to meet his asking price for Lowry, why trade him for lesser assets? Have to balance between success/development this season and asset accumulation. You sacrifice too much on the court AND fail to get back desired assets and you could do a bad job of both.

          It is part of the difficulty in tanking. If Masai traded Lowry to "tank", and thus was willing to get less return than he'd hope for in terms assets for him (say just a 2nd rd pick and equal cap relief to Lowry), then we better damn get a very high pick, otherwise it's a terrible trade-off....But if you don't fill that PG spot adequately, are you also wasting a season of development with no one to get the ball to our other players? And if you do fill that spot (even with a Vasquez), you might end up having traded away Lowry for lesser assets and failing to climb the "tank" standings in a way that would've made it worthwhile....

          I think MU's approach the whole time has been to balance as best he can maximizing development while also maximizing value of his assets. The on-court result is a team with lots of flexibility moving forward, and very likely to make the playoffs this year. That may not be a home-run season in terms of winning the lottery or becoming a contender (2 extremes), but it might be a solid triple (in the more desirable, winning part of "the middle" with ample options moving forward, and a pretty successful season of development).

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          • #20
            OldSkoolCool wrote: View Post
            Not so much about whether we make the playoffs making us a success to me. It's a nice bonus for sure though with everyone getting a taste of what it takes to win, and how to do it.

            I think the biggest success this season is the imprint Lowry has had on Ross and Val, how he has taught them how to conduct themselves on the court and be winners. This can't go understated IMO.
            Ummm sorry dude, but I'm pretty sure it was Austin Daye that made that impact and taught them all how to compete hard, and win.

            hater!

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            • #21
              Jamshid wrote: View Post
              I wish i had add the next questions to my original post and knew what you guys thought about them.

              1) if this season is already success, then what is your expectation for this team for the next season ?

              2) Do we need to get passed the 1st round in the play offs next season to consider it success or MU can relax about seriously competing for next season ?
              Since this is essentially one question....

              There is no expectation for next season. Can't determine that at all until we get to the summer and certain things play out (ie. Lowry). Success need not move on a linear trajectory, and making the 1st or 2nd round this year does not mean failing to improve on that next year is a failure. Maybe he doesn't like the price of Lowry, and doesn't like the other options...Then maybe he decides to tank. Maybe he can turn whatever capspace and/or assets we have into an upgrade at a position that would move us a notch higher.

              My only expectations at this point are
              -Avoid bad contracts that screw flexibility (the BC strategy)
              -Don't trade draft picks (mostly just 1st rounders) without getting quality players (somewhere on the star spectrum) back

              Comment


              • #22
                Jamshid wrote: View Post
                I wish i had add the next questions to my original post and knew what you guys thought about them.

                1) if this season is already success, then what is your expectation for this team for the next season ?

                2) Do we need to get passed the 1st round in the play offs next season to consider it success or MU can relax about seriously competing for next season ?
                1. JV, Ross, DeMar all get better, Kyle Lowry is resigned to a reasonable contract, We draft a rookie at either the PF/C OR SF position, hope to get a more competent coach, win close to 50 games and have a legit shot at winning against the elite teams of the east.

                2.We definitely need to get past the 1st round next year to even consider it to be a success, but if lowry isnt resigned and the tank is on then everything changes because without lowry were a no mans land team
                "Both teams played hard my man" - Sheed

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                • #23
                  4hunnit_degreez wrote: View Post
                  1. JV, Ross, DeMar all get better, Kyle Lowry is resigned to a reasonable contract, We draft a rookie at either the PF/C OR SF position, hope to get a more competent coach, win close to 50 games and have a legit shot at winning against the elite teams of the east.

                  2.We definitely need to get past the 1st round next year to even consider it to be a success, but if lowry isnt resigned and the tank is on then everything changes because without lowry were a no mans land team
                  Success is not always linear.

                  Comment


                  • #24
                    I view the question posed in the opening post to be somewhat restrictive...in that it appears to deal with this season only. I am more a sustainability concerned fan. With all the decisions (and non decisions) made this season and what will transpire this summer leading to the Raptors team on the floor next year will tell the tale in my view. The performance of the team say the first quarter of next season will be more indicative of this season's success (including whatever happens in the playoffs). In another word...sustainability of and improvement on the current success. If we are able to build on this...then, yes.

                    ps...is any NY Knick fan celebrating the 54 win season they had last year? The circumstances are not the same obviously but ...

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                    • #25
                      Craig wrote: View Post
                      Ummm sorry dude, but I'm pretty sure it was Austin Daye that made that impact and taught them all how to compete hard, and win.

                      hater!
                      #Daye4MVP
                      The name's Bond, James Bond.

                      Comment


                      • #26
                        Bendit wrote: View Post
                        The performance of the team say the first quarter of next season will be more indicative of this season's success (including whatever happens in the playoffs). In another word...sustainability of and improvement on the current success. If we are able to build on this...then, yes.
                        That is an excellent point.
                        I think this is what was missing the most in BC era. He was changing the team and the direction almost every season.

                        So if MU decided to compete this year and miss on one of the biggest drafts of the decade, will it translate to success next year ?
                        Or the circumstances ( not signing lowry or ...) will voce this team to change direction and go for a tank next season ?

                        You raised a very valid point that was missing from this discussion.

                        Comment


                        • #27
                          Jamshid wrote: View Post
                          I wish i had add the next questions to my original post and knew what you guys thought about them.

                          1) if this season is already success, then what is your expectation for this team for the next season ?

                          2) Do we need to get passed the 1st round in the play offs next season to consider it success or MU can relax about seriously competing for next season ?
                          1) Next season I expect us to have a new coach and a better wing rotation and a good low post presence. Right now I am not too convinced that with just internal growth we will be able to make that next step from mediocre to contending.

                          2) I have no expectations for the teams win/loss record next season. It all depends on what moves are made at the draft/summer. I'll re-evaluate come training camp

                          Craig wrote: View Post
                          Ummm sorry dude, but I'm pretty sure it was Austin Daye that made that impact and taught them all how to compete hard, and win.

                          hater!
                          You're right...I should give credit where credit is due. Our resident KD was instrumental in our turnaround

                          white men can't jump wrote: View Post
                          My only expectations at this point are
                          -Avoid bad contracts that screw flexibility (the BC strategy)
                          -Don't trade draft picks (mostly just 1st rounders) without getting quality players (somewhere on the star spectrum) back
                          I agree. Though I would even be looking for more than just quality players for draft picks. Only reason I would like to see one going out is for a star that really fills a need. Otherwise those rookie contracts and the rookies themselves will be just as plausible to be quality.

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                          • #28
                            The positives of this season have to be stated again.

                            1) MU traded Bargnani and Gay and got smaller more manageable contracts with upside in one case and draft picks in another.
                            2) DeMar became an all-star
                            3) Ross and JV both grew as sophomores
                            4) The Raptors still have enough money on the books to go after a max contract player in 2015.
                            5) The Raptors still have their 2014 and 2015 draft picks

                            With that said.. the win/loss record and any playoff success they have this year will probably not dictate how they respond next season. I can even see them taking a step back (eg, Lowry leaves) so they can take two steps forward the following year. I am always in favour of getting things done quickly but MU has 4 more years on his contract. If they stumble next season they still have pieces that can help them get to the next level. Miami may not always be as strong either (Wade is getting older, Bosh/James may both leave). Indiana is still a small-market team and they have 2 max-contracts and limited funds to get better. Toronto can jump into contender status but patience is probably needed.

                            Keys to success will be what MU can do with trades this summer. Does he resign Lowry and at what price? Do DD/TR/JV all come back? What happens to Amir? Do they use their mid-level and on who? Who does he draft? I'm not sure but my gut believes that MU is going to make a bold move that will alter the team that we've seen this year. And that alteration could cause the team to do worse than they did this year. Not sure it will be a tank for 2015 but it could end up that way and I'm okay with that.

                            The Raptors have a long way to go before they become legitimate contenders. Organic growth could get them there but I think TL is looking for star power and that is still lacking despite the fact that they have an all-star and a guy that should have been an all-star.

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                            • #29
                              planetmars wrote: View Post
                              And that alteration could cause the team to do worse than they did this year. Not sure it will be a tank for 2015 but it could end up that way and I'm okay with that.
                              Wouldn't that be just continues of BC era policies ? going from play offs and competing then to tanking and ... Where would be a grand plan, continuity, direction, identity and commitment to a plan ?

                              Comment


                              • #30
                                Jamshid wrote: View Post
                                Wouldn't that be just continues of BC era policies ? going from play offs and competing then to tanking and ... Where would be a grand plan, continuity, direction, identity and commitment to a plan ?
                                MU's grand plan is to build a championship team. He may not consider the Raptors close to that (I know I don't). They are missing a super-star talent. They are playing in a conference where the 5th ranked team is below .500. They are playing in a conference where the 3rd ranked team doesn't make the playoffs in the West.

                                So if you keep the current roster how do you turn it into a legitimate top 5 team in the league? You can try to keep it and add a super-star but then you are playing russian roulette because that super-star free agent could sign elsewhere (it's also known to happen quite a lot with this franchise).

                                The key is to maintain flexibility. Have young assets on good contracts that are easy to move. It is to acquire as many of these assets as you can and hope they all grow. Then use these assets to obtain a super-star talent when that talent is not working out with their current team.

                                If the Raptors do worse it could be because of external factors (Lowry leaves; Other teams get better; Guys injured this year are back next year, etc). But that doesn't mean MU's strategy back fires.. it just means he's ready to take the proper leap to get better in another year. At that time JV/Ross/DD would be in theory all be better. They could then be ready to take the league by storm.

                                BC in my opinion was always thinking short term. The only time he probably didn't was when he drafted JV but then he immediately goes after Nash, Lowry, and then Gay. He blew his flexibility as soon as he created it (Hedo, then Fields, then Gay). He traded his draft picks for short term results. There was no real plan. I really hope MU doesn't mimic that 'strategy'.

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