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Thread: What would you be prepared to give up to acquire Andrew Wiggins ?

  1. #41
    Raptors Republic Starter Quirk's Avatar
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    I say we pull out the stops to get Ennis instead, maybe target Orlando's 2nd first rounder (13th) or Philadelphia's (11th). Should be much easier to get these, since that far down the draft teams are less certain of their pick and may be willing to trade.

    Once we get Ennis, we plan on creating cap space and luring Wiggins in free agency when the time comes, and if he proves himself.

    I think Ennis will be a star, and along with Ross and JV can perhaps be the core that lures Wiggins to take his talents to Bay Street. Especially if he winds up in Orlando .

  2. #42
    Raptors Republic All-Star stooley's Avatar
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    Quote ebrian wrote: View Post
    Contrary to what's been said I don't think a rebuilding team would want someone like DeRozan simply because by the time their rebuilding plan is complete, DeRozan will be long gone. Rebuilding teams want something to build around, not a stop-gap.

    I'd trade JV and our 2014 pick. If they need more, throw in a 2017 pick.

    Whether JV will ever be dominant is debatable, but rebuilding or bottom-dwelling GMs love to build around big men, and JV is young enough to be part of the future of any franchise. He's sexy enough that someone might be willing to trade out of the top 5. Simple way to look at is, right now, between JV and Embiid who do you take. There have been many like Embiid.. big men who look great in college who have not being playing basketball very long. All you need is a tiny seed of doubt and we can trade in to get Wiggins.
    Dude, I so, so easily take Embiid over JV. Come on.

  3. #43
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    The last shred of my tanking hopes lies in a draft day trade of DD, our 2014 1st and NYK's 2016 first to trade up to grab Wiggins. Wiggins and Ross could be a serious shut down wing tandem.

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  5. #44
    Super Moderator thead's Avatar
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    my wiggins package

    2014 1st round pick 2014 2nd round pick, 2015 2nd round pick, 1 2016 1st round pick 1 2016 second round pick, 2017 second round pick, 2018 1st round pick + 2 of my 3 testicles, and Terrence Ross for Nash and Wiggins

  6. #45
    Raptors Republic All-Star stooley's Avatar
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    Quote DanH wrote: View Post
    The last shred of my tanking hopes lies in a draft day trade of DD, our 2014 1st and NYK's 2016 first to trade up to grab Wiggins. Wiggins and Ross could be a serious shut down wing tandem.
    PLEASE, for anyone else holding out hope for this, THIS IS A PSA:

    We are NOT getting Wiggins. It's not happening unless extreme circumstances befall him. Unless he's a complete dud in March, injures himself, or something else unexpected happens,

    Wiggins will NOT be a Raptor for at least 5-6 years.

  7. #46
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    Quote Quirk wrote: View Post
    I say we pull out the stops to get Ennis instead, maybe target Orlando's 2nd first rounder (13th) or Philadelphia's (11th). Should be much easier to get these, since that far down the draft teams are less certain of their pick and may be willing to trade.

    Once we get Ennis, we plan on creating cap space and luring Wiggins in free agency when the time comes, and if he proves himself.

    I think Ennis will be a star, and along with Ross and JV can perhaps be the core that lures Wiggins to take his talents to Bay Street. Especially if he winds up in Orlando .
    YES, THIS!! I've been saying this to people all year. No one is likely to give up a top 5 pick, but adding another solid Canadian or two to the roster will help recruit him down the road. They can tamper while on the national team together just like the Miami big 3 did. And from what I've seen of Ennis, I think he will develop into a nice floor general.

  8. #47
    Raptors Republic Starter KeonClark's Avatar
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    Quote TSF wrote: View Post
    I realize AW is a higher ceiling player, but he also plays the position that has the most talent in the nba. JV has shown star potential and plays the hardest position to find talent at. It's intriguing
    No, its not even intriguing. Every gm in the league would laught at your comparison. Andrew Wiggins is a million times more valuable with a way higher ceiling than JV. Fuck what position they play. This kid coud be the next t mac minus the injuries. In other words, future hall of famer, finals mvp.

  9. #48
    Raptors Republic All-Star ebrian's Avatar
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    Quote stooley wrote: View Post
    Dude, I so, so easily take Embiid over JV. Come on.
    You might, but keep in mind Andrea Bargnani was traded for a first round draft pick. Joel Embiid could be the next Hakeem Olajuwon, but he could (even if this is an infinitesimally small percentage) also be the next Hassan Whiteside or Hasheem Thabeet.

    With the right GM, all you need is a tiny seed of doubt.
    your pal,
    ebrian

  10. #49
    Raptors Republic All-Star stooley's Avatar
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    Quote ebrian wrote: View Post
    You might, but keep in mind Andrea Bargnani was traded for a first round draft pick. Joel Embiid could be the next Hakeem Olajuwon, but he could (even if this is an infinitesimally small percentage) also be the next Hassan Whiteside or Hasheem Thabeet.

    With the right GM, all you need is a tiny seed of doubt.
    But JV could be a dud too.

    A pick 3 years down the line, from a team that was a top 4 seed the year before, is a lot less valuable than a top 3 pick, the year of, in one of the best drafts of the decade.

    NYK was also given the chance to unload some useless contracts in Novak and Camby. They were expecting Bargnani to contribute SOMETHING.

  11. #50
    Raptors Republic Rookie Checkines's Avatar
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    JV, Derozan 2014 1st both 2016 1sts

  12. #51
    Raptors Republic All-Star ebrian's Avatar
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    Quote stooley wrote: View Post
    But JV could be a dud too.

    A pick 3 years down the line, from a team that was a top 4 seed the year before, is a lot less valuable than a top 3 pick, the year of, in one of the best drafts of the decade.

    NYK was also given the chance to unload some useless contracts in Novak and Camby. They were expecting Bargnani to contribute SOMETHING.
    You're totally right about the pick value. This is a completely hypothetical (and unrealistic) thread so I came up with my thoughts on it. Maybe we'd need more to get a top 5 pick, but I do stand by the fact that rebuilding teams are more likely to trade for JV than DeRozan based on potential. From a rebuilding standpoint, it's a 3-5 year window and by that time, DeRozan would either be looking for a big pay day or on his way out. JV is a guy you can build around. I don't know if you can say JV could be a dud -- that's what I was saying back when he was drafted and I wanted us to take Kemba Walker. But at this point JV's ceiling certainly has dropped a few notches.

    A GM with doubts might say, okay JV isn't dominating right now, but neither was Tyson Chandler at the same age.
    your pal,
    ebrian

  13. #52
    Raptors Republic All-Star OldSkoolCool's Avatar
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    Quote stooley wrote: View Post
    Wiggins will NOT be a Raptor for at least 5-6 years.
    Probably closer to 9 years due to RFA rookie contract

  14. #53
    Raptors Republic All-Star stooley's Avatar
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    Quote ebrian wrote: View Post
    You're totally right about the pick value. This is a completely hypothetical (and unrealistic) thread so I came up with my thoughts on it. Maybe we'd need more to get a top 5 pick, but I do stand by the fact that rebuilding teams are more likely to trade for JV than DeRozan based on potential. From a rebuilding standpoint, it's a 3-5 year window and by that time, DeRozan would either be looking for a big pay day or on his way out. JV is a guy you can build around. I don't know if you can say JV could be a dud -- that's what I was saying back when he was drafted and I wanted us to take Kemba Walker. But at this point JV's ceiling certainly has dropped a few notches.

    A GM with doubts might say, okay JV isn't dominating right now, but neither was Tyson Chandler at the same age.
    Oh, absolutely rebuilding teams take JV over DD.

    JV's value right now, like you said, is on potential. So is Embiid's. JV could still be a disappointment, it's not guaranteed that he becomes Chandler.

    JV's floor might be slightly higher than Embiid's right now, just because we've seen him play in the NBA. But I think any rebuilding team would take Embiid over JV right now, that's all I was saying.

    I just think that if a GM has doubts about Embiid, it's not like JV is a surefire thing.

    JV, imo, is worth a pick 6-10 in this year's draft. And that's a big drop from the top 5.

  15. #54
    Raptors Republic Rookie RepTdot's Avatar
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    Noone!

    Let Wiggins get drafted by Mil, Phi or Orl and become a star, it would do more for the franchise in the long run to have Wiggins become a star while playing out the standard 2-3 year rookie contract with another team & then sign him as top free agent to a long term deal with Toronto and break the history of stars/emerging stars bolting from Toronto as soon as they can or Raptors inability to sign Stars. Its not like we'd be suffering for 2-3 seasons...we'd still be building around Lowry, DD & JOVA

  16. #55
    Raptors Republic All-Star stooley's Avatar
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    Quote RepTdot wrote: View Post
    Noone!

    Let Wiggins get drafted by Mil, Phi or Orl and become a star, it would do more for the franchise in the long run to have Wiggins become a star while playing out the standard 2-3 year rookie contract with another team & then sign him as top free agent to a long term deal with Toronto and break the history of stars/emerging stars bolting from Toronto as soon as they can or Raptors inability to sign Stars. Its not like we'd be suffering for 2-3 seasons...we'd still be building around Lowry, DD & JOVA
    The rookie contract is 4 years long. Then he becomes a RFA, when most rookies get extended for 4/5 years.

    Unless Wiggins hates where he's going, and declines the extension, in which case he'll be available in 5 years (2019), then we won't have him until 2023, if we get him at all.

  17. #56
    Raptors Republic Rookie RepTdot's Avatar
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    Don't know why you guys think its gonna take 5-9 years. The rules of NBA rookie contracts are quite simple. "The initial term of an NBA rookie contract is two years. However, teams may exercise an option to re-sign a rookie for a third season. This option may be exercised after the completion of the player’s first season until the following October 31. Additionally, if a team exercises its option to keep the player for his third season, it may also exercise an option to keep the player for his fourth season. This option is exercisable from the last day of the player’s second season through the following October 31."
    basically the standard NBA rookie contract is 2 years with 3rd & 4th year team options. so the max we'd have to wait for him to play out his rookie contract is 4 years

  18. #57
    Raptors Republic All-Star stooley's Avatar
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    Quote RepTdot wrote: View Post
    Don't know why you guys think its gonna take 5-9 years. The rules of NBA rookie contracts are quite simple. "The initial term of an NBA rookie contract is two years. However, teams may exercise an option to re-sign a rookie for a third season. This option may be exercised after the completion of the player’s first season until the following October 31. Additionally, if a team exercises its option to keep the player for his third season, it may also exercise an option to keep the player for his fourth season. This option is exercisable from the last day of the player’s second season through the following October 31."
    basically the standard NBA rookie contract is 2 years with 3rd & 4th year team options. so the max we'd have to wait for him to play out his rookie contract is 4 years
    But there's more to it. Even when he enters free agency after 4 years, he's a RFA. If he wants to leave, he still has to sign a one year qualifying offer.

    The reason I say nine years, is because the majority of rookies then sign the extension. Even Bosh, Melo, James, none of whom you would call loyal, gave the team that drafted them time to put pieces around them.

  19. #58
    Raptors Republic Rookie RepTdot's Avatar
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    got it, not sure exactly how the rules of RFA status works, I know it means the original team has the right to match any offer Wiggins gets offered but does he still get the choice of which contract to sign as a RFA? hopefully Wiggins hometown pride kicks in and doesn't sign the extension so he can play here.

  20. #59
    Raptors Republic All-Star JawsGT's Avatar
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    Quote RepTdot wrote: View Post
    got it, not sure exactly how the rules of RFA status works, I know it means the original team has the right to match any offer Wiggins gets offered but does he still get the choice of which contract to sign as a RFA? hopefully Wiggins hometown pride kicks in and doesn't sign the extension so he can play here.
    I don't think he does. If the team matches an offer, they will retain Wiggins. If he decides to leave, he has to first take on that QO that comes at the end of his rookie deal (2 yrs + 2 TO's) and after that he would be UFA. 5 years after he is drafted would be the earliest the Raps could get him.

  21. #60
    Raptors Republic Starter e_wheazhy_'s Avatar
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    Quote octothorp wrote: View Post
    We can't trade all those first-rounders. It's against NBA rules as it would leave us with no first-rounders in consecutive years. We could trade our 2014 pick and both 2016 picks though. Would I do that? Yeah, but I'm pretty sure none of the top lottery teams would take it, as those are going to be mid or late first-rounders. It would probably take adding both JV and Ross to the package to make it something another team would consider. (Which is a trade I'd be reluctant to make).
    Actually, we can. If we trade the 2014 at the draft, the 2015 becomes tradeable (or give them the chance to swap) and since we have 2 in 2016 we can trade the NY one
    A key that opens many locks is a master key, but a lock that gets open by many keys is just a shitty lock

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