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Thread: Article on the front page:Ujiriís Quiet Deadline All About The Future

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    Default Article on the front page:Ujiriís Quiet Deadline All About The Future

    What did you guys all think about this article ?

    Ujiri’s Quiet Deadline All About The Future
    http://www.raptorsrepublic.com/2014/...adline-future/

    Tim Chisholm is one of my favourite writers for Raptors ... It seems like people on the front page did not like what he said but I think he is speaking the truth and what MU did and is doing and the direction of the team.
    Last edited by Jamshid; Mon Feb 24th, 2014 at 09:39 PM.

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    Raptors Republic Starter Uncle_Si's Avatar
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    I thought it made sense. Seemed well reasoned and logical. And was along the lines of what I thought

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    Quote Jamshid wrote: View Post
    What did you guys all think about this article ?

    Ujiriís Quiet Deadline All About The Future

    Tim Chisholm is one of my favourite writers for Raptors ... It seems like people on the front page did not like what he said but I think he is speaking the truth and what MU did and is doing and the direction of the team.
    Link?





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    Quote Raps76 wrote: View Post
    Link?





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    http://www.raptorsrepublic.com/2014/...adline-future/

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    Quote Raps76 wrote: View Post
    Link?





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    Raptorsrepublic.com lol. The latest article

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    Myself and all the other lazy bastards out there thank you very much.

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    Quote jacobdr4 wrote: View Post
    Raptorsrepublic.com lol. The latest article
    Sounds like a joke of a website.

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    Quote Jamshid wrote: View Post
    What did you guys all think about this article ?

    Ujiriís Quiet Deadline All About The Future
    http://www.raptorsrepublic.com/2014/...adline-future/

    Tim Chisholm is one of my favourite writers for Raptors ... It seems like people on the front page did not like what he said but I think he is speaking the truth and what MU did and is doing and the direction of the team.
    You know it makes sense but Masai needs to secure a transcendent talent while keeping our young core together (Lowry, DD, TRoss, JV) instead of sacrificing it. I think if we have a good season in which we make it to the 2nd round of the playoffs he shouldn't be in a rush to do anything in the summer besides re-signing Lowry and Patterson (possibly Vasquez too) and acquiring a decent backup C & SG.

    Why not let it ride next season and see if we can carry our momentum over with roughly the same core? IMO he should make his big move at the trade deadline when his true flexibility kicks in, he'll have Fields, Hayes, Amir, and Hansborough on expiring contracts plus draft picks to dangle. He could construct a number of different packages to secure a "transcendent talent". I personally think he should target a PF, I love Amir to death but I'm not sure how long his body's gonna hold up and if we can upgrade that position to a true all-star then why not..

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    Last edited by Raps76; Mon Feb 24th, 2014 at 11:33 PM.

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    I expect big things from MU at the draft and/or during the offseason. I still believe that the team will look significantly different come the start of next season. Dumping Bargnani and Gay was not the end of the house-cleaning from the BC era, only the beginning. The results this season are meaningless as far as MU & TL are concerned; great for marketing and to win back the fair-weather fans, but only the start of a true rebuilding/retooling process. Their goal is to bring a championship to Toronto, which this core will never do. Enjoy the ride this season, but don't buy a personalized jersey.

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    Raptors Republic Superstar enlightenment's Avatar
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    Record since Rudy Gay trade: 25-13, thats .657!!!!

    Thats with 21 and 23 year old sophomores and our star is only 24. We have a secondary (arguably more deserved) allstar in Kyle Lowry.

    I think the conversation should be about surrounding our current stars with the right pieces so that when they reach their primes, they will be able to be similar to Indianas position this season (except in my opinion, we have more potential).

    Imagine Ross turning a corner like Stephenson, Derozan maturing like PG, Val (in my opinion) can be better than Hibbert, then we have Lowry who is much better than the Pacers current point guard.

    If our team defence becomes refined (which if you keep the team together, they will learn to limit mistakes), then there is really no telling how good this team can be.
    The Baltic Beast is unstoppable!

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    Quote enlightenment wrote: View Post
    Record since Rudy Gay trade: 25-13, thats .657!!!!

    Thats with 21 and 23 year old sophomores and our star is only 24. We have a secondary (arguably more deserved) allstar in Kyle Lowry.

    I think the conversation should be about surrounding our current stars with the right pieces so that when they reach their primes, they will be able to be similar to Indianas position this season (except in my opinion, we have more potential).

    Imagine Ross turning a corner like Stephenson, Derozan maturing like PG, Val (in my opinion) can be better than Hibbert, then we have Lowry who is much better than the Pacers current point guard.

    If our team defence becomes refined (which if you keep the team together, they will learn to limit mistakes), then there is really no telling how good this team can be.
    25-13 looks great on paper yet we're nowhere near pacers, Miami, clippers, spurs, in terms of talent. I don't think this teams core is good enough to build around.

    Kyle Lowry is going to be 28 in a few weeks. For a team that's going to need several more years of refinement, is this something to worry about?

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    I don't argue with the sentiment, but boo to Chisholm (well-mannered boos because I enjoy and respect his writing) on introducing another term for fans to argue over. We can't agree over what makes a star, a superstar, a franchise player, an elite player, a championship piece, or even a starter, and all of those terms are more tangible than transcendency. All he defines it as is that it's something that contending teams are built around, that Rondo may or may not be a transcendent talent depending on who you ask, and that nobody currently on the Raptors is transcendent.

    The comments seem to mostly discussing whether any of these guys qualify as transcendent: Rondo, Lowry, DeRozan, George, Hibbert, Melo, McGrady, Isaiah Thomas (I assume the current version), Mutumbo, Wallace, etc. And I can't really blame fans for arguing. That's what happens when you base articles around terminology that doesn't have any accepted definition, and don't attempt to define it. Just out of curiosity I googled 'transcendent basketball player', and found that it's being used for everything from 'player who changed the game the most' to basketball-mount-rushmore guys, to most complete players. Boeheim described transcendent (in reference to what he thinks this draft class is not) as guys who make you 10 to 15 year winning franchises. A word like transcendent is only clear where you're talking more about how something makes you feel (like a dessert), rather than what something quantifiably is.



    My approach is that a contending team needs at least one championship centerpiece, and a rotation of championship pieces. Championship pieces are guys with skillsets and styles that have been proven to be successful in later playoff rounds... Zach Lowe (I think) wrote once about only acquiring guys that he could see flourishing in the sort of uber-athletic finals that we that we've seen the last couple years, a sentiment I totally agree with. A championship centerpiece is a guy that you can basically be an unstoppable force late in games and late in playoff series. He's not going to be unstoppable every night, but he can be unstoppable three or four nights out of every seven.

    Right now, I think the Raptors have two championship pieces (Ross and Lowry), and about four guys who are potential championship pieces (JV, DeRozan, Amir, Patterson). This isn't about who's the better players... DeRozan is a better player than Ross right now, but I can see Ross thriving in playoff basketball more than DeRozan (but as I keep saying, I'm happy that DeRozan will have the opportunity to prove me wrong this year). Definitely there's no championship centerpiece on this roster, and those guys are hard to acquire. I wouldn't even put Rondo in that category... in other words, I don't think Rondo takes the Raptors to any significantly higher threshold than they are now.
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    Quote iblastoff wrote: View Post
    25-13 looks great on paper yet we're nowhere near pacers, Miami, clippers, spurs, in terms of talent. I don't think this teams core is good enough to build around.

    Kyle Lowry is going to be 28 in a few weeks. For a team that's going to need several more years of refinement, is this something to worry about?
    A lot PG's don't really hit their stride until their mid-late 20's so I think Lowry's got at least another 5yrs in him. That is plenty of time for this young core to hit their prime and come around especially with the addition of another all-star.

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    Quote iblastoff wrote: View Post
    25-13 looks great on paper yet we're nowhere near pacers, Miami, clippers, spurs, in terms of talent. I don't think this teams core is good enough to build around.

    Kyle Lowry is going to be 28 in a few weeks. For a team that's going to need several more years of refinement, is this something to worry about?
    Well im not worried about Kyle turning 28 soon because he dosent rely on his athletic ability to be effective. He could play the same way till at least his mid to early 30's
    I DONT TRUST PEOPLE WHO WEAR SUNGLASSES AT NIGHT

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    Quote enlightenment wrote: View Post
    Record since Rudy Gay trade: 25-13, thats .657!!!!

    Thats with 21 and 23 year old sophomores and our star is only 24. We have a secondary (arguably more deserved) allstar in Kyle Lowry.

    I think the conversation should be about surrounding our current stars with the right pieces so that when they reach their primes, they will be able to be similar to Indianas position this season (except in my opinion, we have more potential).

    Imagine Ross turning a corner like Stephenson, Derozan maturing like PG, Val (in my opinion) can be better than Hibbert, then we have Lowry who is much better than the Pacers current point guard.

    If our team defence becomes refined (which if you keep the team together, they will learn to limit mistakes), then there is really no telling how good this team can be.
    Let's look at this realistically. Ross pulling a Lance (without the crazy/awesome personality?) is doable. DD? Highly unlikely. PG has been in the league for less time and has played elite defense during his rise. DD has never played elite defense. I don't think DD's ceiling is a top-5 talent building block. And Val is a possibility, but currently he's behind Hibbert's development curve. Hibbert's PPG, BPG, PER were all higher in his second year. Val isn't far behind, but I don't think it's a foregone conclusion that he becomes as good. It is possible though. And yes lowry is better than hill, but West is also a former all-star at the 4.

    I just don't see us having that one, amazing piece that makes up championship caliber teams yet. Val could be the next PG, or LJ, or AD, but I'm not certain he could be yet. And if he's not, we're the mid to late 2000's atlanta hawks.
    @Boymusic66

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    The most important thing we know now, without a doubt, is that MU absolutely does not intend to tear it down and do a classic rebuild (at least this year). And if we are not getting our transcendent talent from the draft, then everything hinges on trades and free agent signings.

    I think MU and Leiweke are about to discover whether or not their ability to sell the city of Toronto to stars is realistic or not. Lowry is the first real test. Also important will be our success in the playoffs. If we can make it out of the first round, our appeal will go up considerably. A quick bounce will be devastating. This is yet another reason Casey makes me antsy.

    As for trades... I feel like most of the stars have assembled in their clusters for the next few years. Lebron/Wade/Bosh, Paul/Griffin, Durant/Westbrook, Harden/Howard, George/Hibbert. There are only a couple of youngish guys on their own who might be picked off. Rondo, Love. And if the price is deemed too steep?

    Then, as a wise Raptor once said, we out here like Michael Phelps!... treading water.

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    Quote Scraptor wrote: View Post
    As for trades... I feel like most of the stars have assembled in their clusters for the next few years. Lebron/Wade/Bosh, Paul/Griffin, Durant/Westbrook, Harden/Howard, George/Hibbert. There are only a couple of youngish guys on their own who might be picked off. Rondo, Love. And if the price is deemed too steep?
    I tend to agree with this analysis, except that one big name is missing from the list: Melo.

    I think at this point Melo isn't long for New York: the Knicks simply stink of failure and Melo is openly agonizing about the fact that he's dropping 40 points a night and the team just keeps losing. I think he can be signed away. I agree that Melo isn't a LeBron-like transformative talent - but he's a star-level player, pure and simple. And he's the only star-level player who isn't going to be tied to a franchise or almost certainly bound for another (like Love is for the Lakers).

    We have to consider the possibility that maybe, if we can get Lowry for a decent price, we should go after him. I'm not saying we necessarily should. But we have to consider it.

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    Quote TSF wrote: View Post
    Let's look at this realistically. Ross pulling a Lance (without the crazy/awesome personality?) is doable. DD? Highly unlikely. PG has been in the league for less time and has played elite defense during his rise. DD has never played elite defense. I don't think DD's ceiling is a top-5 talent building block. And Val is a possibility, but currently he's behind Hibbert's development curve. Hibbert's PPG, BPG, PER were all higher in his second year. Val isn't far behind, but I don't think it's a foregone conclusion that he becomes as good. It is possible though. And yes lowry is better than hill, but West is also a former all-star at the 4.

    I just don't see us having that one, amazing piece that makes up championship caliber teams yet. Val could be the next PG, or LJ, or AD, but I'm not certain he could be yet. And if he's not, we're the mid to late 2000's atlanta hawks.
    Val is younger NOW, then Hibbert was in his rookie season.
    The Baltic Beast is unstoppable!

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    Quote enlightenment wrote: View Post
    Val is younger NOW, then Hibbert was in his rookie season.
    Jonas was also supposed to be more ready now than Hibbert was due to playing in the pros over in Europe.

    I'm not saying he's far behind, or that it's impossible. Just that as is stands, second season to second season, JV is behind
    @Boymusic66

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    Quote TSF wrote: View Post
    Jonas was also supposed to be more ready now than Hibbert was due to playing in the pros over in Europe.

    I'm not saying he's far behind, or that it's impossible. Just that as is stands, second season to second season, JV is behind
    Look at Hibberts stats. Look at Vals stats. Val is 21, Hibbert was a rookie at 22. Val's trajectory is way beyond Hibberts currently. Defensively as well, it took Hibbert a while before learning not to foul and going straight up. I see that ability in Jonas, and at 21, it makes sense that he gets frustrated and makes a ton of silly fouls now. Jonas at 27 though will be a beast.
    The Baltic Beast is unstoppable!

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