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Thread: What will happen if the Raptors trade for an elite talent?

  1. #81
    Raptors Republic Superstar Puffer's Avatar
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    Quote Scraptor wrote: View Post
    I certainly agree with this sentiment. I'm just saying I think it's easier said than done. One thing that's lost in this evaluation of Houston is that Texas is one of seven states with no income taxes and is pretty warm, which I can assure you factored into Dwight's decision. We face an uphill battle in this regard.

    That said, the Jays were able to lure free agents north of the border, so it's not an impossible task.
    I think it comes down to money. Stars are looking after their future. And extra 1.5 million a year on a 3 year contract, is 4.5 million. Anyone that says 4.5 million doesn't make a difference is probably wrong in most cases.

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    Raptors Republic All-Star stooley's Avatar
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    Quote Puffer wrote: View Post
    I think it comes down to money. Stars are looking after their future. And extra 1.5 million a year on a 3 year contract, is 4.5 million. Anyone that says 4.5 million doesn't make a difference is probably wrong in most cases.
    Exactly. People also have to remember that these players have to live off of ~10 years of salary for most of the rest of their lives. They're being paid well, but it's hardly a lifelong career.

  3. #83
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    Quote stooley wrote: View Post
    Exactly. People also have to remember that these players have to live off of ~10 years of salary for most of the rest of their lives. They're being paid well, but it's hardly a lifelong career.
    And let's also not forget the slimy player agents, who are incented to maximize total compensation on a per deal basis. I would guess that you could count on one hand the times that a player agent advised his client to take significantly less money (and truly meant it) in the history of professional sports - without some un-written side-deal of other revenue stream to make it up, in the works.

  4. #84
    Raptors Republic All-Star OldSkoolCool's Avatar
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    Quote golden wrote: View Post
    And let's also not forget the slimy player agents, who are incented to maximize total compensation on a per deal basis. I would guess that you could count on one hand the times that a player agent advised his client to take significantly less money (and truly meant it) in the history of professional sports - without some un-written side-deal of other revenue stream to make it up, in the works.
    I have wondered about this...agents take like 30% in some cases (for doing nothing).

    Why do pro athletes have agents who take percentage? NBA GM's will offer what they believe is fair value, and as a player you do know your worth. You don't need an agent to negotiate for you IMO.

    For example if your agent is making 30% and he says he can get you a 10 mil deal, that means you are making 7. Why not just fire him and say to the GM you'll take 8.5? You make more...your team has more cap space. If you don't want to get screwed legally, hire a lawyer for a flat hourly commission for a thousandth of the cost...

    I hate agents...leaches and dredges of society (not unlike used car salesman)

    I guess they do take care of some of the business side of things....but you can do that as a player as well, it is not that hard and would massively increase communication between player and front office in a good way. just my 2 cents...

  5. #85
    Raptors Republic Starter 3inthekeon's Avatar
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    I believe the max an agent can make on an NBA contract is 4% - a far cry from 30%.

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    Raptors Republic Veteran Nilanka's Avatar
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    Quote 3inthekeon wrote: View Post
    I believe the max an agent can make on an NBA contract is 4% - a far cry from 30%.
    I heard the NBA limits agents' commissions to just 3%.
    "I don't lie. I willfully participate in a campaign of misinformation." - Fox Mulder

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  9. #87
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    Agents don't make anywhere near 30%.

    Not that 3% is a bad deal at all. The average player makes like what 5M per season? So that's $150K per player basically. If you're someone like Arn Tellem that has $300M worth of player salary signed with him this season. You're making $9M from commission.

    Edit: What was suggested a few posts above this one is wrong. It makes a ton of sense for a player to hire an agent. Even the highest paid players aren't going to be paying an agent much more than $500K. If that agent can secure you millions more in salary, then why not hire one? Additionally they have access to and contacts with endorsements, sponsorships, tv people, magazines, etc. AND it's in their best interest to earn you as much money as possible, because then they will earn as much as possible as well.
    Last edited by imanshumpert; Mon Mar 3rd, 2014 at 01:04 PM.

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  11. #88
    Raptors Republic Superstar Axel's Avatar
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    Quote imanshumpert wrote: View Post
    Agents don't make anywhere near 30%.

    Not that 3% is a bad deal at all. The average player makes like what 5M per season? So that's $150K per player basically. If you're someone like Arn Tellem that has $300M worth of player salary signed with him this season. You're making $9M from commission.

    Edit: What was suggested a few posts above this one is wrong. It makes a ton of sense for a player to hire an agent. Even the highest paid players aren't going to be paying an agent much more than $500K. If that agent can secure you millions more in salary, then why not hire one? Additionally they have access to and contacts with endorsements, sponsorships, tv people, magazines, etc. AND it's in their best interest to earn you as much money as possible, because then they will earn as much as possible as well.
    Related article as Ravens S Matt Elam went the no-agent route. Ray Allen is mentioned in the article, but I don't know his specifics.

    http://sportsmoney.com/do-you-really...-agent-part-1/


    Edit: Max NBA agent commission is set at 4% by the NBA.

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    Raptors Republic Superstar planetmars's Avatar
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    The 3-4% commission is only on player salary. Money obtained from sponsors could have higher commission rates. That's also why an agent can matter. If you only care about the salary a team gives you then its no big deal.. just sign a lawyer to help you with the paper work. But if you want to be sponsored and by a big corporation for example you'll want an agent to help negotiate deals for you.

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    Raptors Republic All-Star Mediumcore's Avatar
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    Quote Puffer wrote: View Post
    I think it comes down to money. Stars are looking after their future. And extra 1.5 million a year on a 3 year contract, is 4.5 million. Anyone that says 4.5 million doesn't make a difference is probably wrong in most cases.
    This is true for anyone but a star player. They will get paid anywhere they go, and it's those max level players Toronto is trying to lure. I'm sure w'ed have no problem signing Shawn Marrion or Elton Brand by over paying them. It's the KD's and Love's we want though.

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    Raptors Republic Starter 3inthekeon's Avatar
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    Quote Mediumcore wrote: View Post
    This is true for anyone but a star player. They will get paid anywhere they go, and it's those max level players Toronto is trying to lure. I'm sure w'ed have no problem signing Shawn Marrion or Elton Brand by over paying them. It's the KD's and Love's we want though.
    But as scrator pointed out,what you get paid and what ends up in your pocket can be vastly different depending on a states (or provinces) income tax rates.

  17. #92
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    Agent commission % is regulated, I believe, but the main point being that these guys are hired to maximize salary. They are not necessarily into getting players the best overall situation for their careers, team fit, families, etc..., other than the benefits of the highest possible income.

    In some ways, I could see that a relatively low commission % could make many of these agents even more motivated to influence their clients to go for max dollars, almost all of the time.

  18. #93
    Raptors Republic All-Star stooley's Avatar
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    Quote golden wrote: View Post
    Agent commission % is regulated, I believe, but the main point being that these guys are hired to maximize salary. They are not necessarily into getting players the best overall situation for their careers, team fit, families, etc..., other than the benefits of the highest possible income.

    In some ways, I could see that a relatively low commission % could make many of these agents even more motivated to influence their clients to go for max dollars, almost all of the time.
    The agent is incentivised to maximize the player's lifetime earnings. So he'd like his player to play in a system that fits his skillset, and where he will succeed long term. On the other hand, personal issues or preferences may not necessarily affect an agent's advice - but if something's really important to a player, he can still push it through.

  19. #94
    Raptors Republic All-Star OldSkoolCool's Avatar
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    My Bad

    Ya I was also thinking of the tax rates killing players.

    Still dont like agents though...they are bad apples at negotiating tables, often poorly informing their players

  20. #95
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    Quote stooley wrote: View Post
    The agent is incentivised to maximize the player's lifetime earnings. So he'd like his player to play in a system that fits his skillset, and where he will succeed long term. On the other hand, personal issues or preferences may not necessarily affect an agent's advice - but if something's really important to a player, he can still push it through.
    True, but players can and do change agents. So, I'm not sure how many agents actually take the long view, or for that matter, should. Maybe some of the bigger agencies like CAA & IMG - but then, they've got other agendas going on, like telling Lebron and Chris Paul that they need to team up with other superstars to have an easy path to a ring which maximizes their global brand revenue potential, far beyond salary. There's a lot of stuff going on behind the scenes with the agents and advisors, that really influence the players decisions where to play, that we just don't hear about. Hopefully, that's where a guy like Leweike, who understands 'the business side' as well as anybody, can put together some attractive sales packages that address all of those potential income streams.

  21. #96
    Raptors Republic Starter S.R.'s Avatar
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    I'd think paying an agent is like paying an accountant to do your taxes. Yeah, you may save some fees if you do it yourself, but in cases where your income is high enough, having good financial professionals around you will make/save you a lot of money even after deducting their fees.

    Besides, a lot of pro athletes do not have good business minds. So many of them go bankrupt after their careers are done. I would not be recommending that many of these guys start taking their contracts and finances into their own hands. They just want to focus on basketball, and most of them are better off finding reliable financial professionals and agents.

  22. #97
    Raptors Republic All-Star OldSkoolCool's Avatar
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    ^Players go bankrupt because they do not control their own finances and let someone else do it...not having an agent will make you learn a little about money

  23. #98
    Raptors Republic Starter S.R.'s Avatar
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    One more thought on Houston - before the Harden trade, I remember reading a couple articles criticizing Morey because they seemed to be lacking direction. As mentioned, they were a barely above .500 "treadmill" team at the time, and he just kept accumulating similar mid-tier talent. Traditional logic would have been to tank at that point.

    I do think the league is shifting and we'll see more of the Houston approach. Because of the cap, those team-friendly contracts are so much more valuable now. Even if your team is middling in the W/L department, but you're in a solid financial situation, you're may actually be better off than teams with a couple of all-stars but a crappy cap situation. It's really hard to get out of a bad cap situation without having to sell low on current talent.

    Chicago is also showing how competitive a well balanced team can be without superstars (Noah's defensive presence aside). It'll be interesting to see how they move forward re: Rose.

  24. #99
    Raptors Republic Starter S.R.'s Avatar
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    Quote OldSkoolCool wrote: View Post
    ^Players go bankrupt because they do not control their own finances and let someone else do it...not having an agent will make you learn a little about money
    I'm sure that's true sometimes, but many of the stories - Curt Schilling - involve ridiculous investments and start-ups that blow their entire wad within a couple of years. Of course some of them also get burned by their "professional" help, for sure.

  25. #100
    Raptors Republic All-Star OldSkoolCool's Avatar
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    ^thats what I mean

    They never learn how to protect their money because they always have someone else taking care of it

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