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Thread: If the Playoffs started today.......

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    Raptors Republic Superstar TheGloveinRapsUniform's Avatar
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    Default If the Playoffs started today.......

    As the 3rd seed, we'd get Brooklyn in the first round, then Miami in the second.

    Since IND is much improved than the last time the Raps beat them, do you guys want to keep the 3rd seed?

    Or move down to 4th, get Washington (more sure than BKN) and take their chances against IND?

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    Raptors Republic Superstar planetmars's Avatar
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    Play to win, not to lose. Go for the 3rd seed and hope for the best.

    I still think Miami wins the conference. Only 2 games back of Indiana and I believe they have the tie breaker.

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    Raptors Republic All-Star OldSkoolCool's Avatar
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    If the Playoffs Started today...it would be April 19th

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    Raptors Republic Rookie Niagara Raptor's Avatar
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    what really scares me thinking about these things, is we might get the best record ever in raptors history, get the highest seeding ever(not sure how accurate I am on that but im sure someone will check it) and match the farthest we have gotten in the playoffs. in a year when at the beginning the majority of people (including myself ) wanted to tank for wiggins/the others and could of easily

    I shudder to think how bad we have been since our inception as a franchise

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    Raptors Republic Starter S.R.'s Avatar
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    I really want Indy. The Raps match up much, much better against them. Ross and Salmons can guard George, and the Raps bigs always play Hibbert quite well. The Heat are much more trouble - this team does not have a body that can guard Lebron (not that many teams do, but we don't even have a Pierce/Marion/Artest etc. with the size at SF). Lebron could basically beat this team single handed, imho.

    I'm not worried about Nets vs. Wizards. Raps have played both very well.

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    Raptors Republic All-Star WJF's Avatar
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    Quote OldSkoolCool wrote: View Post
    If the Playoffs Started today...it would be April 19th
    This.....and this long ass winter would be over!

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    Raptors Republic Starter KeonClark's Avatar
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    Quote TheGloveinRapsUniform wrote: View Post
    As the 3rd seed, we'd get Brooklyn in the first round, then Miami in the second.

    Since IND is much improved than the last time the Raps beat them, do you guys want to keep the 3rd seed?

    Or move down to 4th, get Washington (more sure than BKN) and take their chances against IND?
    Some people just really love tanking..

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    Raptors Republic All-Star stooley's Avatar
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    Quote KeonClark wrote: View Post
    Some people just really love tanking..
    I think the whole IND/MIA things is overrated. I don't care who we get. Since the trade, we've played IND twice and MIA once. We're 1-1 against IND, but we're one Amir open hook going in from a victory against MIA.

    I don't care if we haven't been 'historically' good against Miami. I think those types of records become bogus the minute your team makes a 180 like the raptors did after the Gay trade.

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    Raptors Republic Veteran Nilanka's Avatar
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    I might actually prefer a 2nd round matchup vs. Miami if only to hear an even louder ACC go bananas ripping Bosh, lol
    "I don't lie. I willfully participate in a campaign of misinformation." - Fox Mulder

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    Raptors Republic All-Star Letter N's Avatar
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    I guarantee Miami will have the #1 seed in the East come playoff time.

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    Raptors Republic Superstar planetmars's Avatar
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    The impact over an Indiana 2nd round win would be huge.. but can you imagine a 2nd round win over the Heat? Toronto would instantly get respect if that ever happened.

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    Raptors Republic Starter KeonClark's Avatar
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    Quote planetmars wrote: View Post
    The impact over an Indiana 2nd round win would be huge.. but can you imagine a 2nd round win over the Heat? Toronto would instantly get respect if that ever happened.
    We would get massive respect beating either. But I think our fanbase is getting a little agressive in all this second round talk. Let's enjoy the final stretch and the first round first, don't think we should be looking past anyone.

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    Raptors Republic Veteran white men can't jump's Avatar
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    Quote TheGloveinRapsUniform wrote: View Post
    As the 3rd seed, we'd get Brooklyn in the first round, then Miami in the second.

    Since IND is much improved than the last time the Raps beat them, do you guys want to keep the 3rd seed?

    Or move down to 4th, get Washington (more sure than BKN) and take their chances against IND?
    Don't really care. Both are touch matchups and the Raptors will have to play near-perfect or even perfect ball to beat either one in a 7 game series.

    I also don't think Washington is necessarily more sure than BKN.

    -BKN is scary because of "veteran savvy"...But they're also old, slow, have no interior presence, generally bad D and jumpshot heavy O. On paper, ignoring experience, I'd much rather face Brooklyn.
    -Washington has a solid star PG in Wall, who is good at both ends. Their whole lineup is a good combination of big up front, athletic on the perimeter, they can shoot from distance, can beat you up inside, have pretty solid D all around, and some experienced guys to help their youth. Their inexperience might hurt them, but otherwise they're the more dangerous team, imo.

    Keep the 3rd seed, let things play out. Think it'll be one of BKL, Charlotte or Washington...(think Atlanta is falling apart and the only thing keeping them in the playoffs is how horrid the teams below are). I'm fine with any of the 3. Like I said, I think if they are playing well, Washington is the toughest. BKL is just about their experience, but think matchup-wise we could take the series. Charlotte should be easy enough, but we always play down to them, and they always play well against us.

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    Raptors Republic All-Star Letter N's Avatar
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    Quote planetmars wrote: View Post
    The impact over an Indiana 2nd round win would be huge.. but can you imagine a 2nd round win over the Heat? Toronto would instantly get respect if that ever happened.
    Here's the keys to the game for the Heat if we play them in the playoffs.

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    Raptors Republic Veteran white men can't jump's Avatar
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    I'll add to my opinion that I think Indy has a bigger chance to faulter than the Heat. LeBron is just at a different level, and the team, with him, Wade, Battier, Allen, Bosh, etc. just has solid leadership and keep their cool

    I could see the less-tested Indy team being more of a risk to fall apart. They get most of their leadership from West, and I guess Hill and Scola. George, Hibbert and Stephenson can all be volatile and inconsistent. And they traded Granger for Turner who is not much for leadership presence. Not saying they will let emotions get the best of them and play badly, just saying I see it still being more likely with them than Miami.

    Also, the top is hardly wrapped up. Indy and Miami are 2 games apart. Can't be playing to jostle for position (which is generally a bad idea) when their positions are far from set in stone.

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    Raptors Republic All-Star Hotshot's Avatar
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    Its not the opponants that are as a concern as much as the Raptors squad and coach.

    The Raptors need to fix their kinks (losing the lead, starting off cold, high turnovers and foul prone, inconsistent scoring, wierd substitution patterns) and then they won`t worry whom they face come playoff time. However if this team is showing up in the playoffs like they played in the last 5 games then they could easily lose to just about anybody they may face.

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    Raptors Republic All-Star ezz_bee's Avatar
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    I'm not sure how it happens... I start out wanting to make just a few simple points, but it always turns into a monster. Apologies.

    Quote Niagara Raptor wrote: View Post
    what really scares me thinking about these things, is we might get the best record ever in raptors history, get the highest seeding ever(not sure how accurate I am on that but im sure someone will check it) and match the farthest we have gotten in the playoffs. in a year when at the beginning the majority of people (including myself ) wanted to tank for wiggins/the others and could of easily

    I shudder to think how bad we have been since our inception as a franchise
    We've been terrible... truly one of the worst teams in the league. I posted a thread a month or so ago breaking down how far we've gone in the playoffs... even teams that we make fun of like the Kings & Bucks have BOTH been to the conference finals since we've set our franchise record for wins (Bucks did it in that very season, but still).


    Our regular season record for wins is 47.
    We did it first in 2000-2001 (VC era)
    It was good the 5th best record in the East
    It was tied for 12th best record in the League. If Toronto had been in the West they would have tied (with the T-Wolves) for the 8th spot in the West but would lose the tie-breaker as we went 0-2 against Minnesota that season.

    This was the season where we won our ONLY playoff series, against the New York Knicks, who were the Fourth seed (48 wins). The series was a best of 5, so it only took 3 wins to advance to the second round. We lost to Philly in round to in game 7...
    So our record for playoff wins is six (6)

    We tied the record 47 games in the regular season in 2006-2007 (Bosh era).
    Was good for 4th in the Eastern conference
    Good for 9th in the League.
    If the Raps were in the West they would have been the 6th seed.

    Even though the Raps had the 4th best record, we were given the 3rd seed in the playoffs (because we won the division). If seeding was based solely on regular season record we should have played the Miami Heat (5th best record). Instead we played the New Jersey Nets (6th best record). Weirdly, Chicago, who had the 3rd best record in the East was the 5th seed, although they did get homecourt advantage against the fourth seed because they had a better record. Again, weird.

    So to Recap the records
    47 wins in regular season (twice 01-02 & 06-07)
    4th best record in the East (06-07)
    9th best record in the league (06-07)

    6 wins in the playoffs (01-02)
    1 Playoff series win (01-02)


    I think we're lock of the 3rd best record in the East, which would be a first, but I doubt we tie or beat or record of 9th league wide. We've got a decent chance of beating our regular season win record, and/or our playoff win total, but in the grand scheme of things success will be judged more on how we handle the seasons after this one. If the following seasons mirror the seasons following 2000-2001 OR 2006-2007, we probably won't look back on this season as a success, as in hindsight the season was the illusion of progress as opposed to actual progress.

    Two observations...
    1) It's kind of sad, that the year we had the best standing, both in our conference and in the league, that we lost in the first round in 6 games (I was at the ACC with my dad for game 1).

    2) In both those years the West's record was better than the East's (at least for the top 20 teams). Had Toronto been in the West in 2000-2001 (the year with our best playoff success, and only series win) chances are we wouldn't have made the playoffs at all. If we did it would be as the 8th seed and would have definitely been eliminated (and probably swept) in the first round by either the Spurs or Lakers.

    Quote S.R. wrote: View Post
    I really want Indy. The Raps match up much, much better against them. Ross and Salmons can guard George, and the Raps bigs always play Hibbert quite well. The Heat are much more trouble - this team does not have a body that can guard Lebron (not that many teams do, but we don't even have a Pierce/Marion/Artest etc. with the size at SF). Lebron could basically beat this team single handed, imho.

    I'm not worried about Nets vs. Wizards. Raps have played both very well.
    I think we are the 3rd best team in the East and I like our chances against anyone other than the Heat or Pacers. I also think it's dumb to try to avoid facing a team with a worse record, if we lose in the first round that will tell us A LOT about the ceiling of this team, which would be very beneficial to know. I'm cheering for the raps to win, but I want them to EARN it!

    Quote Letter N wrote: View Post
    I guarantee Miami will have the #1 seed in the East come playoff time.
    I guarantee you have no basis to make such an erroneous claim.


    Quote white men can't jump wrote: View Post
    I'll add to my opinion that I think Indy has a bigger chance to faulter than the Heat. LeBron is just at a different level, and the team, with him, Wade, Battier, Allen, Bosh, etc. just has solid leadership and keep their cool

    I could see the less-tested Indy team being more of a risk to fall apart. They get most of their leadership from West, and I guess Hill and Scola. George, Hibbert and Stephenson can all be volatile and inconsistent. And they traded Granger for Turner who is not much for leadership presence. Not saying they will let emotions get the best of them and play badly, just saying I see it still being more likely with them than Miami.

    Also, the top is hardly wrapped up. Indy and Miami are 2 games apart. Can't be playing to jostle for position (which is generally a bad idea) when their positions are far from set in stone.
    I actually take the opposing view, that Miami are more likely to faulter. They will need impact from players who are approaching/at the point in their careers where they are regressing. I also think that they are more susceptible to being affected by injury. I agree that Lebron is a beast, and that we do have a GLARING whole at the SF/PF positions (I agree with the bolded part of S.R. post) when it comes to guarding him, but Indy is considerably deeper at every position.

    Most importantly, I think that if either Miami or Indy is mentally focused we can't win, because both beat us on the talent scale. SO the only way for us to win is for us to be playing our best basketball and for our opponent to take a game or two off. For me, Miami is much more likely to hand you a game than Indy.

    Over the last 3 playoffs there has been a narrative that MIA takes games off in the playoffs. This is supported by the eye test, BUT also by the fact that Miami has never played fewer games to get to the finals than their Western counter part.

    2011 - 15 games for both Miami and Dallas to get to the finals (Mia lost)
    2012 - 18 games to get to finals for Miami, 16 for OKC (Mia won)
    2013 - 16 games to get to the finals for Miami, 14 games for San Antonio (Mia won)

    There are 4 teams to have played in the NBA Finals in the last 3 years: Mia, Dallas, OKC, & SA
    Here is the number of playoff series each has played in that 3 year span:

    Mia - 12
    OKC - 8
    SA - 8
    Dallas - 5

    Here the number of series each of those teams swept their opponent with their sweep percentage in brackets
    SA - 4 (50%!!!)
    Dallas - 1 (20%)
    OKC - 1 (12.5%)
    MIA - 1 (8.3%)

    Despite them having a clear TALENT advantage in every series and relatively easier competition on the whole (Seeds 3-8 in the West have been consistently better there counterparts in the East) Miami has only swept 1 opponent. There's a reason why the Spurs have a reputation of execution, that Miami lacks. IF you agree that Toronto will have to out execute it's opponent rather than out talent them, historically Miami has been a team that has allowed less talented opponents to do just that. This lack of execution is often on display in Heat games, a great example is Wade and to a lesser degree Lebron, who frequently forgo running back on defense to complain to refs. This results in poor transition defense and easier scores from their opponents. This is something they continue to do when the stakes are high, their are plenty of examples in the conference finals and nba finals games of the last 3 years. Although players like Duncan argue calls, they are much less likely to do so while the play is still live.

    The counter argument, and it's a good one, is that despite giving games away to inferior teams, their series win percentage is a crazy 91.67% (11 of 12), so when push comes to shove they will hit that extra gear and secure victory.

    However unlikely, I do think that their history of poor execution compounded by their reliance on older players (Wade/Allen/Battier) and unknows (Beasley, Oden) makes them more likely to falter than Indiana, which is younger and deeper, but is on an upward trajectory and still has something to prove (won't be subject to championship fatigue).


    Quote Hotshot wrote: View Post
    Its not the opponants that are as a concern as much as the Raptors squad and coach.

    The Raptors need to fix their kinks (losing the lead, starting off cold, high turnovers and foul prone, inconsistent scoring, wierd substitution patterns) and then they won`t worry whom they face come playoff time. However if this team is showing up in the playoffs like they played in the last 5 games then they could easily lose to just about anybody they may face.
    In the playoffs you are much more likely to face an opponent of equal talent, which is why execution/mental focus is as important as talent. Toronto's execution since the Gay trade has been much better than in previous years, (I remember seeing a post that we haven't had a 3 game losing streak since before the Gay trade). Unfortunately, when we get to the 2nd round we are CLEARLY out-talented which means that the other team (indy or miami) has to execute poorly and/or face injury issues, in order for us to have a chance. Essentially, we can't beat them, they have to hand it to us. Although it is very unlikely that either will, as I outlined at great length above, I think Miami is more likely.
    Last edited by ezz_bee; Thu Feb 27th, 2014 at 07:05 AM.

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    Raptors Republic All-Star JawsGT's Avatar
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    I'm not concerned about whether we secure the 3rd or 4th seed, I'm more concerned about how we play leading into the playoffs. If we finish well over the rest of the season, but get the 4th seed because CHI plays crazy ball and gets ahead of us, then so be it. I'll tip my hat to CHI and say good for them. But if we falter down the stretch, lose games we shouldn't and thus 'lose' our 3rd seed positioning to CHI, then I will be more concerned.

    That being said, I'm with whitemen, I'd rather see BKN in the first round than WAS, and for pretty much the same reasons he presented. I'd also rather see Indy in the first round. I think we match up with them well. I also think they will be the team to beat in the East for the next few years (including this one) as I think the reign of the Heat is over and I expect the Big3 to disband in next couple of years. I think Lebron will opt out this offseason if the Heat are unsuccessful in defending the title, and Bosh the following season. Wade will probably retire with the Heat.

    So, playing Indy this season can be helpful in terms of being able to prepare and gameplan against them for future playoff matchups, and should clearly expose any holes we have in our roster that need to be filled in order to put us in a better situation to beat them in the future.

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    Raptors Republic All-Star Mediumcore's Avatar
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    Facing Brooklyn or Chicago in the first round would be a disaster. Too playoff tested for a young Raptors squad. JV would be in foul trouble every game and you know KG is gonna get under someone's skin.

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    Raptors Republic Veteran Nilanka's Avatar
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    Quote Mediumcore wrote: View Post
    Facing Brooklyn or Chicago in the first round would be a disaster. Too playoff tested for a young Raptors squad. JV would be in foul trouble every game and you know KG is gonna get under someone's skin.
    Brooklyn doesn't scare me. Jason Kidd's coaching ability doesn't scare me. KG's walking stick doesn't scare me.

    But Thibodeau's defence does.
    "I don't lie. I willfully participate in a campaign of misinformation." - Fox Mulder

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