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Thread: It's going to be hard to let Casey walk

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    Raptors Republic Superstar Chr1s1anL's Avatar
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    Default It's going to be hard to let Casey walk

    At this moment Casey has the raptors 7 games over .500 with 26 games left. The raptors have to just win 16 of the 26 to have the all time best record in raptor history. If they make it pass the 1st round and compete in the second(which I think is very possible). You could easily argue that Casey had the best season of any raptor coach. Just like it was hard for Casey to trade Lowry after the season his had. It's going to be just as hard to not resign Casey.

    Personally his just as responsible for this season than any of the players. Casey has done what he was hired to do and that's change the culture. His brought a winning culture. The players except to win every time they step on the court. I hope his back in the fall with Lowry.


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    Raptors Republic Starter KeonClark's Avatar
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    I hope he's gone but that's me. He's a good coach but the end of game iso's are bruuutal. He also plays favorites, you'll never see him give shit to patterson or salmons, yet he'll embarass amir in front of everybody. Its like he's scared of new guys, vets and stars.

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    Raptors Republic All-Star stooley's Avatar
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    Quote KeonClark wrote: View Post
    I hope he's gone but that's me. He's a good coach but the end of game iso's are bruuutal. He also plays favorites, you'll never see him give shit to patterson or salmons, yet he'll embarass amir in front of everybody. Its like he's scared of new guys, vets and stars.
    How many times have you seen him embarrass Amir?

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    Raptors Republic Superstar TRex's Avatar
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    Quote KeonClark wrote: View Post
    I hope he's gone but that's me. He's a good coach but the end of game iso's are bruuutal. He also plays favorites, you'll never see him give shit to patterson or salmons, yet he'll embarass amir in front of everybody. Its like he's scared of new guys, vets and stars.
    What the hell are you talking about?

    I agree w/ ChristianL, Casey has done what he was hired to do and that's change the culture. He's brought a winning culture here. Raps are now one of the BEST defensive teams in the league. They were one of the worst if not the worst defensive team before Casey.

    Also, DeRozan has developed his game, became an all-star under Casey. I also like where the development of Ross and JV is going. Lowry has also excelled and became one of the best PG's in the league w/ Casey as the coach.

    I think you bring Dwane Casey back. To me it's a no brainer.
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    Super Moderator CalgaryRapsFan's Avatar
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    Quote TRex wrote: View Post
    What the hell are you talking about?

    I agree w/ ChristianL, Casey has done what he was hired to do and that's change the culture. He's brought a winning culture here. Raps are now one of the BEST defensive teams in the league. They were one of the worst if not the worst defensive team before Casey.

    Also, DeRozan has developed his game, became an all-star under Casey. I also like where the development of Ross and JV is going. Lowry has also excelled and became one of the best PG's in the league w/ Casey as the coach.

    I think you bring Dwane Casey back. To me it's a no brainer.
    I strongly disagree with this sentiment.

    There was no culture change during DC's first 2 seasons. The culture change started the day TL was hired.

    Although the defense improved during DC's first season, it plummeted last season, before rebounding this season. A defensive specialist has only been successful instilling a defense-first philosophy in 2/3 of his tenure.

    I think one could argue that DeRozan has been on a slow-and-steady progression since he was drafted, which started long before DC came to town. It could also be argued that adding guys like Gay & Lowry to learn from (BC), removing Bargnani as the #1/#1a option (injury/MU) and removing the black-hole formerly known as Gay (MU), were all far more valuable to DeRozan's development than anything DC did.

    The Raps are playing well, winning and on track for the playoffs (thanks at least in some part to the historically weak EC), but that doesn't automatically make DC a great coach. Part of the culture change that TL has instilled is to stop considering Toronto as some second (at least) tier franchise in the NBA; as such, we should stop bargain shopping for coaches and aim for the best. If none are available then consider extending him, but I don't think it's the no brainer you do.

    We'll all find out soon enough where TL/MU's heads are at, with regards to both the roster and the coaching staff.
    Last edited by CalgaryRapsFan; Wed Feb 26th, 2014 at 06:08 PM.

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    Raptors Republic Veteran white men can't jump's Avatar
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    I credit Masai more for the culture. All the players have said there was a totally different atmosphere after that hiring.

    Casey has done ok. But I don't think it would be hard to let him walk. His lack of originality, mismanagement of timeouts, and strange substitution patterns have still persisted through the season.

    The measuring stick isn't "has this coach done better than any coach in Raps history?", it's "is this guy someone who can take us to the highest level?". First and second round appearances don't equal the highest level. Heck, that's one reason I despise the idea thrown around here occasionally of hiring George Karl.

    Not saying it would be easy to find an obviously better coach, because there are very few obviously great coaches. But I don't think any success he has this year should warrant an automatic re-hiring.

    And on top of that, it also depends the direction the team takes in free agency. If Lowry leaves, and the team expects to take a step back, Masai might want a different approach altogether.

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    Raptors Republic Rookie Niagara Raptor's Avatar
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    Quote white men can't jump wrote: View Post
    I credit Masai more for the culture. All the players have said there was a totally different atmosphere after that hiring.

    Casey has done ok. But I don't think it would be hard to let him walk. His lack of originality, mismanagement of timeouts, and strange substitution patterns have still persisted through the season.

    The measuring stick isn't "has this coach done better than any coach in Raps history?", it's "is this guy someone who can take us to the highest level?". First and second round appearances don't equal the highest level. Heck, that's one reason I despise the idea thrown around here occasionally of hiring George Karl.

    Not saying it would be easy to find an obviously better coach, because there are very few obviously great coaches. But I don't think any success he has this year should warrant an automatic re-hiring.

    And on top of that, it also depends the direction the team takes in free agency. If Lowry leaves, and the team expects to take a step back, Masai might want a different approach altogether.
    I humbly disagree with your opinion white. not disregarding what Masai has done but even before Masai was here under Casey I've liked the culture behind the scenes. there is not internal fighting or cliques that I have ever seen, everyone gets along and is a good teammate to each other. Casey has never embarrassed his players in the media (he has critiqued but not often and never cruelly) the players play hard and love Casey and never upstage him in public. They are good "soldiers" in a sense under him

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    Raptors Republic Veteran white men can't jump's Avatar
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    Quote Niagara Raptor wrote: View Post
    I humbly disagree with your opinion white. not disregarding what Masai has done but even before Masai was here under Casey I've liked the culture behind the scenes. there is not internal fighting or cliques that I have ever seen, everyone gets along and is a good teammate to each other. Casey has never embarrassed his players in the media (he has critiqued but not often and never cruelly) the players play hard and love Casey and never upstage him in public. They are good "soldiers" in a sense under him
    I was more referencing the "winning culture" perspective. From the perspective you mention, it's been solid for a long time. We didn't tend to have big issues under Triano or even Mitchell through most of the Bosh era (basically post-Carter).

    But when you talk about guys buying into busting their ass, giving it their all to achieve success, there has been lots of talk about how Masai set the bar high and challenged players to meet that standard.

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    Raptors Republic All-Star JimiCliff's Avatar
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    Quote Niagara Raptor wrote: View Post
    I humbly disagree with your opinion white. not disregarding what Masai has done but even before Masai was here under Casey I've liked the culture behind the scenes. there is not internal fighting or cliques that I have ever seen, everyone gets along and is a good teammate to each other. Casey has never embarrassed his players in the media (he has critiqued but not often and never cruelly) the players play hard and love Casey and never upstage him in public. They are good "soldiers" in a sense under him
    This wasn't true while Rudy was on the team.

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    Raptors Republic Superstar Superjudge's Avatar
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    I'm not sure I get you guys.

    Last year, when this team saucked serious, and I mean MAJOR balls.... did you think it would be how it is now? Why the hell would you want to fix what isn't broke?

    it makes very little sense.

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    Raptors Republic All-Star stooley's Avatar
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    Quote Craig wrote: View Post
    I'm not sure I get you guys.

    Last year, when this team saucked serious, and I mean MAJOR balls.... did you think it would be how it is now? Why the hell would you want to fix what isn't broke?

    it makes very little sense.
    I think white men sounds more like he wants to strap rocket boosters to what isn't broke.

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    Raptors Republic Veteran white men can't jump's Avatar
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    Quote stooley wrote: View Post
    I think white men sounds more like he wants to strap rocket boosters to what isn't broke.
    Pretty much. It's nice to have a smooth riding bicycle, until you realize you're in a motorcycle race.

    Casey still has a lot to prove if he's going to be the "winning" coach we need if improving on this season is the goal going forward.

    And well, we already know there are potential issues in using him as a rebuilding/development coach. (*cough* Alan Anderson *cough*)

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    Raptors Republic Superstar Superjudge's Avatar
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    I look at it this way. in a sport that has shown statistically that outside of 5-6 coaches over the last 30 years, no coach has made a tangible statistical impact upon a team he has been hired to coach. So, with coaches being for the most part, a lot less important than people actually think, why would you risk playing with good team chemistry, and alienating players that have been promised that this franchise will not continually rotate coaches and GM's in and out of the door?

    It makes zero sense really.

    So, you can maybe just go on out and get Pops... or one of the top guys, Phil is another.... ya, go get um.... I'm sure they want in on Toronto.... but, if you aren't successful.... have a drink, relax, and try to appreciate what ya got.

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    Raptors Republic All-Star stooley's Avatar
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    Quote Craig wrote: View Post
    I look at it this way. in a sport that has shown statistically that outside of 5-6 coaches over the last 30 years, no coach has made a tangible statistical impact upon a team he has been hired to coach. So, with coaches being for the most part, a lot less important than people actually think, why would you risk playing with good team chemistry, and alienating players that have been promised that this franchise will not continually rotate coaches and GM's in and out of the door?

    It makes zero sense really.

    So, you can maybe just go on out and get Pops... or one of the top guys, Phil is another.... ya, go get um.... I'm sure they want in on Toronto.... but, if you aren't successful.... have a drink, relax, and try to appreciate what ya got.
    I completely agree.

    The other post i commented about also just said to not "automatically extend" Casey.

    I guess see who's on the market. Does SVG want in, or George Karl(?) or just some top coach? Which seems unlikely. If not, extend Casey.

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    Raptors Republic Veteran white men can't jump's Avatar
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    Quote stooley wrote: View Post
    I completely agree.

    The other post i commented about also just said to not "automatically extend" Casey.

    I guess see who's on the market. Does SVG want in, or George Karl(?) or just some top coach? Which seems unlikely. If not, extend Casey.
    We, as fans, tend to focus on obvious choices a lot as well. What if someone new pops up? A random assistant who Masai feels would be a great coach? Or maybe a former player? Hornacek's doing a great job in PHX, after being an assistant under the dreadful Tyrone Corbin in Utah. Clearly his bball knowledge and coaching ability was not molded under Corbin. And I don't know if there are any, but what if an assistant in a quality system like the Spurs, Bulls, Heat, Pacers, OKC, or whatever, becomes available? Sometimes you have to gamble to win big. Just gotta hope Ujiri/Leiweke are the right guys to have rolling the dice.

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    Raptors Republic All-Star JimiCliff's Avatar
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    Quote Craig wrote: View Post
    I look at it this way. in a sport that has shown statistically that outside of 5-6 coaches over the last 30 years, no coach has made a tangible statistical impact upon a team he has been hired to coach. So, with coaches being for the most part, a lot less important than people actually think, why would you risk playing with good team chemistry, and alienating players that have been promised that this franchise will not continually rotate coaches and GM's in and out of the door?

    It makes zero sense really.

    So, you can maybe just go on out and get Pops... or one of the top guys, Phil is another.... ya, go get um.... I'm sure they want in on Toronto.... but, if you aren't successful.... have a drink, relax, and try to appreciate what ya got.
    The only 'evidence' I've seen of this is one Dave Berri article, and it's complete horseshit. I'd love to see another source if you have one.

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    Super Moderator CalgaryRapsFan's Avatar
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    I don't think DC was totally to blame for the awfulness of last season and I don't think he's totally responsible for this current team's turnaround.

    He has a solid group of players who are all dedicated to putting the team first and have committed to the defensive end. Team chemistry and the 'fit' of individual players is more the responsibility of the GM than the coach; I don't think anybody anticipated the Sac-4 players integrating as quickly or as positively as they have.

    If a better option becomes available, I'd support the move without thinking twice about DC. I could see TL using his big-name luring abilities to find a proven coach who would instantly demand the respect of the players and grab the attention of the rest of the league, not to mention free agents.

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    Raptors Republic Starter Uncle_Si's Avatar
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    Casey isn't MU's guy. Not saying Casey couldn't grow into it but MU is ultimately responsible for this team. My biggest question is, can Casey grow into a championship head coach. I'm not sure he can but I don't know all that much anyway.

    I heard Phil Jackson loves Toronto.

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    Quote Uncle_Si wrote: View Post
    My biggest question is, can Casey grow into a championship head coach. I'm not sure he can but I don't know all that much anyway.
    I agree with this, but more importantly 'Can Casey grow into a championship head coach within the timeframe that it'll take the Raptors to become contenders'?

    And I don't have an answer either. Trying to grade a coach's learning curve is really difficult. It seems like Casey has grown as a coach tremendously from the beginning of the year to now, but I don't think it's like a player learning a post game where he progresses slowly for a long time and then the body and the muscle-memory and everything just falls into place and he suddenly makes a big improvement.

    Just like the players, I'm very curious to see how he performs in the playoffs. Certainly that was something he was lauded for in Dallas, in terms of game-to-game adjustments over the course of a series.
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    Raptors Republic Rookie Niagara Raptor's Avatar
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    now if u want to talk about substitutions or after time out plays that Casey needs to get better but I think he has done a great job creating a good atmosphere in the locker room (Colangelo does deserve credit too because Derozan, Johnson etc were all brought in by him and they are all good character guys )

    I do agree though I would get rid of him if a better coach was available ... sports is a cruel mistress

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