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Thread: It's going to be hard to let Casey walk

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    Raptors Republic Hall of Famer MACK11's Avatar
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    Quote Niagara Raptor wrote: View Post
    I humbly disagree with your opinion white. not disregarding what Masai has done but even before Masai was here under Casey I've liked the culture behind the scenes. there is not internal fighting or cliques that I have ever seen, everyone gets along and is a good teammate to each other. Casey has never embarrassed his players in the media (he has critiqued but not often and never cruelly) the players play hard and love Casey and never upstage him in public. They are good "soldiers" in a sense under him
    Yeah , but are you trying to say that Casey is the one who's changed the Culture? And that Casey is keep his guys in line like soldiers? Well im gonna disagree with you because its the GM who brings in the players that he feels will mesh well together. If we had a team full of J.R Smith's and MWP's the coach cannot change them to buy into what we want and have a good culture

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    Raptors Republic Hall of Famer MACK11's Avatar
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    Quote RaptorsForever wrote: View Post
    we will have to see how he reacts in the playoffs. I know it would be tough for MU to let him walk after a season like this, but I think he should let him become our defensive coach (his specialty) and bring in a new head coach.
    that sounds like a good idea but its not because your taking the head coach and making him and assistant on the same team he was just the head man at

  3. #23
    Raptors Republic Rookie Niagara Raptor's Avatar
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    wasn't Masai that brought most of these players in especially the main ones
    jr smith is a good but extreme example and no one can save me but most players are reasonable people and the coach has to be there and be hands on managing them.
    if a coach cant manage people or accepts incorrect behavior the pendulum swings the other way and u have instances like a couple years ago in Detroit where a bunch of players refuse to play

  4. #24
    Super Moderator CalgaryRapsFan's Avatar
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    Quote TRex wrote: View Post
    What the hell are you talking about?

    I agree w/ ChristianL, Casey has done what he was hired to do and that's change the culture. He's brought a winning culture here. Raps are now one of the BEST defensive teams in the league. They were one of the worst if not the worst defensive team before Casey.

    Also, DeRozan has developed his game, became an all-star under Casey. I also like where the development of Ross and JV is going. Lowry has also excelled and became one of the best PG's in the league w/ Casey as the coach.

    I think you bring Dwane Casey back. To me it's a no brainer.
    I strongly disagree with this sentiment.

    There was no culture change during DC's first 2 seasons. The culture change started the day TL was hired.

    Although the defense improved during DC's first season, it plummeted last season, before rebounding this season. A defensive specialist has only been successful instilling a defense-first philosophy in 2/3 of his tenure.

    I think one could argue that DeRozan has been on a slow-and-steady progression since he was drafted, which started long before DC came to town. It could also be argued that adding guys like Gay & Lowry to learn from (BC), removing Bargnani as the #1/#1a option (injury/MU) and removing the black-hole formerly known as Gay (MU), were all far more valuable to DeRozan's development than anything DC did.

    The Raps are playing well, winning and on track for the playoffs (thanks at least in some part to the historically weak EC), but that doesn't automatically make DC a great coach. Part of the culture change that TL has instilled is to stop considering Toronto as some second (at least) tier franchise in the NBA; as such, we should stop bargain shopping for coaches and aim for the best. If none are available then consider extending him, but I don't think it's the no brainer you do.

    We'll all find out soon enough where TL/MU's heads are at, with regards to both the roster and the coaching staff.
    Last edited by CalgaryRapsFan; Wed Feb 26th, 2014 at 06:08 PM.

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    Raptors Republic Starter torch19's Avatar
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    I really want to see how Casey performs in the playoffs. I want to see him going toe to toe against a coach in the chess match of strategies. I want to see how the Raps will execute knowing the other team is locked in on us; scouted us; devised a strategy to stop us at the point of attack. I want to see how Casey's rotations will look like in the playoffs.

    So many things I want to see but I'm really excited for the playoffs. I give him credit for having the locker room in check and having his guys play & compete night in & night out. But if we're talking about taking the next step, I need to see his decision making come playoff time.
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  8. #26
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    This a weird thread. If a Van Gundy, or Karl are available you make a change, otherwise, you keep the staff. 2 of the biggest signs of a poorly managed team are constant player turnover, and constant coaching turnover. If you want the Raps to be a stable franchise for once, you better hope Masai understands those 2 points.

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    Super Moderator CalgaryRapsFan's Avatar
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    Quote blackjitsu wrote: View Post
    This a weird thread. If a Van Gundy, or Karl are available you make a change, otherwise, you keep the staff. 2 of the biggest signs of a poorly managed team are constant player turnover, and constant coaching turnover. If you want the Raps to be a stable franchise for once, you better hope Masai understands those 2 points.
    One could also argue that an integral part of a culture change and rebranding, is to start fresh. The management team, behind-the-scenes staff, scouting department, assistant coaches and roster have all been significantly overhauled in less than a single season by TL/MU.

    Had DC's contract expired a season earlier, I assume there would have been a 99.9% chance he wouldn't have been renewed, in light of the housecleaning. He was a lame-duck coach on a team that was intending to rebuild this season. Yes, the unexpected winning has been fantastic but if was such an easy decision for MU to make, why hasn't DC already been extended? I think bigger thinking and longer-term strategies are at play, but that's just me...

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  11. #28
    Raptors Republic Veteran white men can't jump's Avatar
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    Quote Niagara Raptor wrote: View Post
    I humbly disagree with your opinion white. not disregarding what Masai has done but even before Masai was here under Casey I've liked the culture behind the scenes. there is not internal fighting or cliques that I have ever seen, everyone gets along and is a good teammate to each other. Casey has never embarrassed his players in the media (he has critiqued but not often and never cruelly) the players play hard and love Casey and never upstage him in public. They are good "soldiers" in a sense under him
    I was more referencing the "winning culture" perspective. From the perspective you mention, it's been solid for a long time. We didn't tend to have big issues under Triano or even Mitchell through most of the Bosh era (basically post-Carter).

    But when you talk about guys buying into busting their ass, giving it their all to achieve success, there has been lots of talk about how Masai set the bar high and challenged players to meet that standard.

  12. #29
    Raptors Republic All-Star JimiCliff's Avatar
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    Quote Niagara Raptor wrote: View Post
    I humbly disagree with your opinion white. not disregarding what Masai has done but even before Masai was here under Casey I've liked the culture behind the scenes. there is not internal fighting or cliques that I have ever seen, everyone gets along and is a good teammate to each other. Casey has never embarrassed his players in the media (he has critiqued but not often and never cruelly) the players play hard and love Casey and never upstage him in public. They are good "soldiers" in a sense under him
    This wasn't true while Rudy was on the team.

  13. #30
    Raptors Republic Starter 3inthekeon's Avatar
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    Hey, Denver dumped Karl after an excellent season last year. Worked out well for them, no?

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    Quote Chr1s1anL wrote: View Post
    It's going to be hard to let Casey walk
    Actually, it's going to be very easy. Rick Carlisle was removed as head coach of the Pistons when he was winning and winning well. Larry Brown replaced him and they won a championship. I don't see why Casey would be more secure in his job than Carlisle was.

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    Quote CalgaryRapsFan wrote: View Post
    One could also argue that an integral part of a culture change and rebranding, is to start fresh. The management team, behind-the-scenes staff, scouting department, assistant coaches and roster have all been significantly overhauled in less than a single season by TL/MU.

    Had DC's contract expired a season earlier, I assume there would have been a 99.9% chance he wouldn't have been renewed, in light of the housecleaning. He was a lame-duck coach on a team that was intending to rebuild this season. Yes, the unexpected winning has been fantastic but if was such an easy decision for MU to make, why hasn't DC already been extended? I think bigger thinking and longer-term strategies are at play, but that's just me...
    I hear you, but, I never understood the idea of destroying a locker room by removing a respectable coach, that the players are comfortable with, and replacing that coach with one of equal or less quality -- never made sense to me. It usually sets teams back for a season -- see Memphis, and Denver for examples. For what purpose? Ego? Wins should be more important than ego. Like I said, if it's a better coach you do it. Otherwise, you keep the coach regardless of contract situation.

  16. #33
    Raptors Republic All-Star e_wheazhy_'s Avatar
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    It may be unrealistic but I feel like the best case scenario would be to either keep Casey and get offensive specialist assistants (Triano or Karl if he's willing [maybe he wants to work less] or... Get Karl as the head coach and Lionel Hollins as the Defensive Cooordinator.

    If that doesn't work we can always get Gregg Williams, he's pretty good at inspiring his guys to play hard on d.
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  17. #34
    Raptors Republic Veteran Bendit's Avatar
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    I am of the opinion that Casey is just as raw (learning how to be good) as the team it self. He has good a demeanour but how has he performed in the playoffs as a HC. We dont know and neither do we know about the team. Right now he is a good match for this team. The change comes when the team's ceiling rises and his may not. MU should keep him on a yearly/short term contract just like he does with many of his players...for now.

  18. #35
    Raptors Republic Superstar Rapstor4Life's Avatar
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    After this season hes leading the Raps to you bring him back if you don't another team will give him a job ASAP and Toronto is the losers here. Yes Masai has a lot to do with the success (obviously he is GM) but its the GMs job to talk to the coach ask what he wants and then provide that for the coach, however way he can. BC never put DC in a situation where he can win. Gets a defense first coach and tells him Bargnani is our guy build around him and develop JV a front line that plays 0 D for a defense first coach? Brutal! and after that you trade for Rudy Gay a selfish wannabe Superstar.

    Casey and Ujiri were on the same page all season wasnt just talk for the cameras you can see they openly communicated about what to do with the team strengths and weaknesses etc.

  19. #36
    Raptors Republic All-Star BigCamB's Avatar
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    Just a hunch but I think he's going to be re signed anyway, so it doesn't really matter. I just don't like the way the offense is run a lot of the time. If he wasn't so stubborn in that regard, then I'd be confident he would be a great choice going forward.

  20. #37
    Raptors Republic Superstar Chr1s1anL's Avatar
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    Quote Marz wrote: View Post
    Actually, it's going to be very easy. Rick Carlisle was removed as head coach of the Pistons when he was winning and winning well. Larry Brown replaced him and they won a championship. I don't see why Casey would be more secure in his job than Carlisle was.
    You can't compare the two situation. Rick Carlisle was given multiple chance but he couldn't get his team over the hump. Dwane Casey hasn't even been given the chance. Let give guys two good example Scott Brooks and Frank Vocal. Management cause these guys confident and look where it's lead them.

    Also I don't know if any of you watch "Raptors Today" today but, dd was being interviewed. He said that he loves coach Casey and hopes that his back next year. Also said "if we take care of business like we have been doing that we all take care of it self". Seem like the players are playing hard to keep their coach.


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  21. #38
    Raptors Republic Starter TSF's Avatar
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    Quote CalgaryRapsFan wrote: View Post
    One could also argue that an integral part of a culture change and rebranding, is to start fresh. The management team, behind-the-scenes staff, scouting department, assistant coaches and roster have all been significantly overhauled in less than a single season by TL/MU.

    Had DC's contract expired a season earlier, I assume there would have been a 99.9% chance he wouldn't have been renewed, in light of the housecleaning. He was a lame-duck coach on a team that was intending to rebuild this season. Yes, the unexpected winning has been fantastic but if was such an easy decision for MU to make, why hasn't DC already been extended? I think bigger thinking and longer-term strategies are at play, but that's just me...
    Personally? I think he's waiting for how he stacks up in the playoffs first. Casey coached the only defense that beat MIA in the nba- I'd be interested to see what he comes up with in the playoffs with the current roster before making a decision. Not extending him keeps options open either way, which is MU's whole MO.
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  22. #39
    Raptors Republic Superstar Hotshot's Avatar
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    The playoffs his Casey`s meal ticket.

    If Casey can grow a brain and is able to get the team to the second round, it will be hard not to sign him.

    If he becomes the babbling idiot we sometimes see with his substitutions patterns and unable to adjust what the other team coach throws at him (aka being schooled) then maybe its time to let him go.

    I just hope he won`t win coach of the year, cause I don`t think Masai or anybody has the balls to let go of a coach after winning that award.

  23. #40
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    You know who else was a good motivator and terrible at X's and O's?

    Sam Mitchell.

    Let's see Casey get us out of the first round before we start talking about how hard it would be to let go of him. I expect this lovefest will fall apart pretty quickly once he starts iso-ing Hansbrough or getting Amir to shoot threes on the last play of the game.

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