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Thread: It's going to be hard to let Casey walk

  1. #61
    Raptors Republic All-Star slaw's Avatar
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    Quote RepTdot wrote: View Post
    I agree, Casey has a lot of room for improvement but unless Masai has George Karl or another proven big name coach locked in to take over there is no point changing coaches after the season we're having. In saying that if a George Karl is locked in then yea...make the change. Also a good point is Colangelo does deserve some credit here...he made a lot of DUMB moves in his time here but the starting 5 & core of this team for now & the future is his work- JV, Ross, Amir, Lowry, DD. I personally think Masai is gonna change coaches...he has a history with George Karl who is unforgivably still available and he is moulding his own team.
    The lionization of George Karl never ceases to amaze me.

    He has been a succesful (and adaptable) head coach on offense but defensively his teams have traditionally struggled (other than those 90s Sonics teams but they had some guy named Gary Payton) to be anything more than average. Other than '96 Finals, he has a long and storied history of playoff failure, going back to the great '93 Sonics who couldn't get out of the first round....

    Honestly, if I had to choose between Karl and Casey I can't say definitively I'd want Karl. Great offensive mind who gets the big things right but he struggles with in-game and in-between game adjustments, which always gets highlighted in the playoffs (e.g. his disastrously overthought and overly complicated pick and roll defense against the Warriors last year, which allowed Golden State to pick the Nuggets apart from distance). I'd rather focus on landing a superstar rather than a new coach....

  2. #62
    Raptors Republic Veteran Nilanka's Avatar
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    Agreed. I might even keep Casey than entertain the idea of Karl.
    "I don't lie. I willfully participate in a campaign of misinformation." - Fox Mulder

  3. #63
    Raptors Republic All-Star JimiCliff's Avatar
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    Quote slaw wrote: View Post
    The lionization of George Karl never ceases to amaze me.

    He has been a succesful (and adaptable) head coach on offense but defensively his teams have traditionally struggled (other than those 90s Sonics teams but they had some guy named Gary Payton) to be anything more than average. Other than '96 Finals, he has a long and storied history of playoff failure, going back to the great '93 Sonics who couldn't get out of the first round....

    Honestly, if I had to choose between Karl and Casey I can't say definitively I'd want Karl. Great offensive mind who gets the big things right but he struggles with in-game and in-between game adjustments, which always gets highlighted in the playoffs (e.g. his disastrously overthought and overly complicated pick and roll defense against the Warriors last year, which allowed Golden State to pick the Nuggets apart from distance). I'd rather focus on landing a superstar rather than a new coach....
    And don't forgot Denver's incredible inability to inbound the ball while he was there. We think Casey's bad at that, but Karl took it to another level entirely.

  4. #64
    Raptors Republic Superstar Rapstor4Life's Avatar
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    If the team continues to play at this level under Casey (we are on track to breaking our 47 win franchise record) Then obviously you keep him numbers don't lie hes coaching the team to its best numbers since the Vince days, and with a team of 24 year olds and 2 sophmores in the starting line up. Pretty impressive if you ask me Extend him.

  5. #65
    Raptors Republic Starter special1's Avatar
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    I'm personally leaning towards keeping Casey. The defensive improvement from his first season and this year is just too much to ignore. Casey is clearly a pretty good coach when he has the players that fit his style (defense first). For the first time as a Raptor fan i see us winning games because of our defense. Also, I just don't see us finding a better fit, without risking the current team chemistry.

    A lot of people are forgetting that Casey's defense was praised by many as a major reason that the Mavs beat the Heat for the championship in 2011.

    If i had to vote today, I think Caseys stays (maybe a 1 or 2 year contract?). However, I think a lot will depend on his performance in the playoffs.

  6. #66
    Raptors Republic All-Star JawsGT's Avatar
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    Quote psrs1 wrote: View Post
    In agreement. MU should try to find George Karl or Stan van Gundy type coach. If unable to land big fish Casey could be fallback guy. If Casey could improve his forth quarter play calling I could live with the other stuff. I fear this will do us in at the end of tight playoff games.
    Don't forget that this Raptors team is one of the best, if not the best, 4th Q teams in the league! He has certainly made some questionable decisions late in games, but he is obviously doing something right given the teams success in the final Q. And no to George Karl. He coached one of my favorite teams and player for years, but I would not want him here. Van Gundy is a better option, but I wonder what he can do without a dominant big man.

  7. #67
    Raptors Republic Superstar TRex's Avatar
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    Definitely no to George Karl. Great coach. Future Hall of Famer. But his run and gun style is not a good fit for this Raps team.

    Stan and Jeff Van Gundy are the only coaches that i would consider. Other than those 2. I'd keep Casey.
    Follow me on Twitter - @11_RRyan

  8. #68
    Raptors Republic Veteran Nilanka's Avatar
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    Jerry sloan!
    "I don't lie. I willfully participate in a campaign of misinformation." - Fox Mulder

  9. #69
    Raptors Republic Starter mike, prague's Avatar
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    Coach Nick!

  10. #70
    Raptors Republic Veteran Nilanka's Avatar
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    Quote mike, prague wrote: View Post
    Coach Nick!
    This Nick?

    "I don't lie. I willfully participate in a campaign of misinformation." - Fox Mulder

  11. #71
    Raptors Republic Starter TSF's Avatar
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    Quote JawsGT wrote: View Post
    Don't forget that this Raptors team is one of the best, if not the best, 4th Q teams in the league! He has certainly made some questionable decisions late in games, but he is obviously doing something right given the teams success in the final Q. And no to George Karl. He coached one of my favorite teams and player for years, but I would not want him here. Van Gundy is a better option, but I wonder what he can do without a dominant big man.
    I don't think it's the first 11 minutes of the 4th Q people are talking about- it's the "plays" he calls in the last minute that bother most fans. I don't think there's a replacement I would want at this point, honestly. I like what Casey has brought to the organization and the professionalism, push to compete, and core values he's kept through high player turnover (the 2011 season saw over 30 starts go to DD, Bargs, James Johnson, Jose, Amir, and AIRon) is something to be valued, and he's shown positive growth as a coach
    @Boymusic66

  12. #72
    Raptors Republic Starter mike, prague's Avatar
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    Quote Nilanka wrote: View Post
    This Nick?

    Maybe as an assistant.




    I meant this one though ...

  13. #73
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    The Casey problem is not a good problem to have, A good team making the Coach look better than he actually is, is what's happening IMO. While this is true, it's also true that you can't just fire a Coach who's team has made the play-offs (assuming they do ). His coaching is questionable in many areas but also strong in some, especially defence. Not my preferred choice but considering the dilemma, I think they should sign him to a 2 year deal.
    Attitude Is A Choice.

  14. #74
    Raptors Republic Starter mountio's Avatar
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    A few things
    - coaches dont sign 1 or 2 year extensions except in very rare circumstances. If you think hes the right guy, you want to lock him up. If he thinks he has value, he demands to be locked up (3-4 years min). So, throw this 1-2 year stuff out the window .. either you believe in the guy or you dont .. you cant have it both ways
    - i would get rid of him. while i grant some positive developments .. the glaring weaknesses (both on offense and defense) over his years here are just to great to ignore. Has he improved - yes he has. But, the fact that he started out so clueless in many areas is a huge, huge red flag for me
    - The worst thing we can do would be what he did with Sam - extend him based on a relatively short run of success and then be stuck with him for 4 years or so
    - At the end of the day, he needs to be judged by his full 3ish years here, not the last 6 months and the facts are he has been a relatively bad coach over that timeframe .... albeit thats an improvement from completely awful 6 months ago
    Last edited by mountio; Fri Feb 28th, 2014 at 06:03 PM.

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  16. #75
    Raptors Republic Starter Uncle_Si's Avatar
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    Quote mountio wrote: View Post
    A few things
    - coaches dont sign 1 or 2 year extensions except in very rare circumstances. If you think hes the right guy, you want to lock him up. If he thinks he has value, he demands to be locked up (3-4 years min). So, throw this 1-2 stuff out the window .. either you believe in the guy or you dont .. you cant have it both ways
    - i would get rid of him. while i grant some positive developments .. the glaring weaknesses (both on offense and defense) over his years here are just to great to ignore. Has he improved - yes he has. But, the fact that he started out so clueless in many areas is a huge, huge red flag for me
    - The worst thing we can do would be what he did with Sam - extend him based on a relatively short run of success and then be stuck with him for 4 years or so
    - At the end of the day, he needs to be judged by his full 3ish years here, not the last 6 months and the facts are he has been a relatively bad coach over that timeframe .... albeit thats an improvement from completely awful 6 months ago
    Masai has said he builds the team to suit the coach. He's not signing any coach to a 1 or 2 year deal

  17. #76
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    Quote mountio wrote: View Post
    A few things
    - coaches dont sign 1 or 2 year extensions except in very rare circumstances. If you think hes the right guy, you want to lock him up. If he thinks he has value, he demands to be locked up (3-4 years min). So, throw this 1-2 year stuff out the window .. either you believe in the guy or you dont .. you cant have it both ways
    - i would get rid of him. while i grant some positive developments .. the glaring weaknesses (both on offense and defense) over his years here are just to great to ignore. Has he improved - yes he has. But, the fact that he started out so clueless in many areas is a huge, huge red flag for me
    - The worst thing we can do would be what he did with Sam - extend him based on a relatively short run of success and then be stuck with him for 4 years or so
    - At the end of the day, he needs to be judged by his full 3ish years here, not the last 6 months and the facts are he has been a relatively bad coach over that timeframe .... albeit thats an improvement from completely awful 6 months ago
    In a show recently (before the Gay trade), Masai Ujiri said that Casey is being evaluated not on the basis of wins/losses but on the basis of player development. We have seen players (Lowry, Derozan, PP, JV, Ross) develop only I wouldn't attribute it to Coaching. This is an unfortunate situation because it may result in the Coach being re signed. A 1 year extension is impossible but considering that there isn't going to be a long line for Casey's services (if available), 2 years plus team option for 3rd is not impossible.
    Attitude Is A Choice.

  18. #77
    Raptors Republic All-Star Balls of Steel's Avatar
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    Reading this thread reminds me of the song above. What more can Casey do? Can he find a cure for cancer? Straighten out Rob Ford? End world hunger? Establish peace in the middle east? What????
    “The saving of our world from pending doom will come, not through the complacent adjustment of the conforming majority, but through the creative maladjustment of a nonconforming minority.” - Martin Luther King

  19. #78
    Raptors Republic Starter TSF's Avatar
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    Quote Balls of Steel wrote: View Post


    Reading this thread reminds me of the song above. What more can Casey do? Can he find a cure for cancer? Straighten out Rob Ford? End world hunger? Establish peace in the middle east? What????
    Draw up a good play for the final possession?
    @Boymusic66

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  21. #79
    Raptors Republic Veteran MACK11's Avatar
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    Quote TSF wrote: View Post
    Draw up a good play for the final possession?
    ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ Post of the year ahhhahahahahaahahahahahahahahahahahhaahhahahahahah ahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahah ahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahhahahaha hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaahhaahahah hahahahahahahahahaahha

  22. #80
    Raptors Republic All-Star stooley's Avatar
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    Quote TSF wrote: View Post
    Draw up a good play for the final possession?
    there's good plays, and there's good execution. very hard to tell the difference.

    I remember lowry making an open 3 at the end of a game a month or so ago.

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