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Thread: It's going to be hard to let Casey walk

  1. #41
    Raptors Republic Superstar Chr1s1anL's Avatar
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    Quote Hotshot wrote: View Post
    The playoffs his Casey`s meal ticket.

    If Casey can grow a brain and is able to get the team to the second round, it will be hard not to sign him.

    If he becomes the babbling idiot we sometimes see with his substitutions patterns and unable to adjust what the other team coach throws at him (aka being schooled) then maybe its time to let him go.

    I just hope he won`t win coach of the year, cause I don`t think Masai or anybody has the balls to let go of a coach after winning that award.
    It's funny you say that cause Sam Mitchell has predicted at the beginning of the year that Casey would win that reward. He'd have to get to 50+ wins to be considered for that reward. Which is actually possible lol. Y'all need to respect this man!

    Just my opinion but I feel most of you who don't like Casey are the ones that have adopted Jonas as their son.


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  2. #42
    Raptors Republic All-Star BigCamB's Avatar
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    Quote Chr1s1anL wrote: View Post

    Just my opinion but I feel most of you who don't like Casey are the ones that have adopted Jonas as their son.

    wow, much logic

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  4. #43
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    it's kinda naive to think you will be happy with another coach. There will always be complaints about coaching with Raptor fans.

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    Raptors Republic Superstar Chr1s1anL's Avatar
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    Quote BigCamB wrote: View Post
    wow, much logic
    Everybody hear was craving for accountability when Triano was here but now that a coach is actually being accountable with are so called saviour. Everyone is upset. If we didn't win last night game the topic would of been about how JV only played 17 minutes. People need to relax and remember it takes time for bigs to develop. This tough love with JV will all pay off in the future. In Casey we trust.


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  6. #45
    Raptors Republic All-Star BigCamB's Avatar
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    Not at all. JV played like crap and 17 minutes was very generous. I like accountable coaching, but he only shows it on one end of the floor from what I see.

  7. #46
    Raptors Republic Veteran white men can't jump's Avatar
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    Quote BigCamB wrote: View Post
    Not at all. JV played like crap and 17 minutes was very generous. I like accountable coaching, but he only shows it on one end of the floor from what I see.
    He did not play like crap. Casey himself said it had nothing to do with JV playing badly, but rather the other guys playing so well he decided to ride them. That's fine. It's too bad he didn't play more, but not a big deal in this circumstance at all.

  8. #47
    Raptors Republic Veteran white men can't jump's Avatar
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    Quote MixxAOR wrote: View Post
    it's kinda naive to think you will be happy with another coach. There will always be complaints about coaching with Raptor fans.
    It has nothing to do with being happy.

    Again, this thread was started with the assumption that the team is playing well enough that it should basically be automatic that Casey is brought back. Some of us are simply arguing that's a very limited view of the situation. There are factors beyond our knowledge, which is mostly limited to knowing obvious good alternatives.
    ->We don't know the ins and outs of the league well enough to know who could be a sleeper candidate.
    ->We don't know enough about the Raptors situation going into next year to say he should be kept for continuity. Lets all remember, Lowry is UFA, 2Pat and Vasquez are RFA, Salmons has a non-guaranteed deal...that's 4 of our top 9 in flux, and even just Lowry leaving could be a huge blow that totally alters the trajectory of the team.
    ->And on a more immediate level, we have no clue if Casey will make a good playoff coach, so even if there is solid roster continuity, it may not seem like a great plan to bring him back. Coaching is really tested in the playoffs.

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  10. #48
    Raptors Republic All-Star BigCamB's Avatar
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    He certainly played poorly from what I saw, everyone has an opinion and I could well be wrong.

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    Raptors Republic All-Star Hotshot's Avatar
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    Quote Chr1s1anL wrote: View Post
    Just my opinion but I feel most of you who don't like Casey are the ones that have adopted Jonas as their son.
    Its not that I don`t like Casey, its the fact that I don`t think he is a great coach but a decent coach which is fine for now (just like the current roster) but if you want to make serious strides down the future then the roster and this coach will have to be improve significantly.

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    Quote Scraptor wrote: View Post
    You know who else was a good motivator and terrible at X's and O's?

    Sam Mitchell.

    Let's see Casey get us out of the first round before we start talking about how hard it would be to let go of him. I expect this lovefest will fall apart pretty quickly once he starts iso-ing Hansbrough or getting Amir to shoot threes on the last play of the game.
    Mitchell should have never been fired, without an adequate replacement. Triano sadly looked like a BC's boy in that scenario -- whether it was fiction or reality.

  13. #51
    Raptors Republic Veteran white men can't jump's Avatar
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    Quote Chr1s1anL wrote: View Post

    Just my opinion but I feel most of you who don't like Casey are the ones that have adopted Jonas as their son.

    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
    It has nothing to do with Jonas. There are just things about Casey that rub me the wrong way. A good example from the last game is how long he kept Ross on the bench from the end of the 3rd to about midway through the 4th. It's fine to give Ross a rest, but he sat from 1:21 left in the 3rd to 5:54 left in the 4th. That's a big rest for a guy who, other than some boneheaded turnovers much earlier in the game, was playing well giving us great outside shooting and defending the other team's best player.

    It's extra bad when Salmons was clearly laboring a bit out there, what with a bad back that kept him out of shootaround; Lowry is having a terrible shooting night; Vasquez can't defend anybody. And Ross obviously played a huge part in the win.

    Didn't end up being a costly decision...but I was definitely scratching my head wondering Casey was going to put back in the only guy he had who could hope to contain Irving (again, especially given the night other guys were having).

    This is a bit of a pattern for Casey's odd substitutions. He sometimes rides certain guys too long and/or lets others ride the bench too long. Don't know what to make of it.

    *Or for another related example, how long it took him to weed Hayes out of the rotation even well after Hansbrough came back.
    Last edited by white men can't jump; Thu Feb 27th, 2014 at 01:19 AM.

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  15. #52
    Raptors Republic All-Star JimiCliff's Avatar
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    Quote white men can't jump wrote: View Post
    It has nothing to do with being happy.

    Again, this thread was started with the assumption that the team is playing well enough that it should basically be automatic that Casey is brought back. Some of us are simply arguing that's a very limited view of the situation. There are factors beyond our knowledge, which is mostly limited to knowing obvious good alternatives.
    ->We don't know the ins and outs of the league well enough to know who could be a sleeper candidate.
    ->We don't know enough about the Raptors situation going into next year to say he should be kept for continuity. Lets all remember, Lowry is UFA, 2Pat and Vasquez are RFA, Salmons has a non-guaranteed deal...that's 4 of our top 9 in flux, and even just Lowry leaving could be a huge blow that totally alters the trajectory of the team.
    ->And on a more immediate level, we have no clue if Casey will make a good playoff coach, so even if there is solid roster continuity, it may not seem like a great plan to bring him back. Coaching is really tested in the playoffs.
    I disagree with this this, I think we have a very good clue, and I think he's going to be a trending disaster. Playoffs depend on snap strategic adjustments, which, from my chair, is easily Casey's greatest weakness as a coach. We'll be seeing things we'd never even dreamed possible, and it won't be pretty.
    Last edited by JimiCliff; Thu Feb 27th, 2014 at 09:07 AM.

  16. #53
    Raptors Republic All-Star Mediumcore's Avatar
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    Casey isn't a top 5 coach but he's pretty damn good at getting his team to play defence. People can pick apart his coaching style all they want, but at the end of the day the success the team has enjoyed is largely due to Casey and his D. I can't remember a time when the I could say the Raptors actually had their own style of play, or had a system where you could trade for a player and they could fit into that system seamlessly. The team is humming like a well oiled machine, the sophomores are developing nicely, DeMar is expanding his game, Lowry is getting along with his coach, and it's all in great part to the coach.

    Continue to let the man teach these guys how to play the game the right way, if we lose a couple along the way because of a coaching misstep then so be it. The good far out weighs the bad. When the team is ready to contend you look for a top notch play caller to take the reigns.

  17. #54
    Raptors Republic Veteran Nilanka's Avatar
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    Quote blackjitsu wrote: View Post
    I hear you, but, I never understood the idea of destroying a locker room by removing a respectable coach, that the players are comfortable with, and replacing that coach with one of equal or less quality -- never made sense to me. It usually sets teams back for a season -- see Memphis, and Denver for examples. For what purpose? Ego? Wins should be more important than ego. Like I said, if it's a better coach you do it. Otherwise, you keep the coach regardless of contract situation.
    Can't see Masai ever considering replacing Casey with someone of equal or lesser quality.

    If Casey isn't re-signed, it's because someone better is available (and is willing to sign in Toronto).
    "I don't lie. I willfully participate in a campaign of misinformation." - Fox Mulder

  18. #55
    Raptors Republic All-Star JawsGT's Avatar
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    I like Casey and I think he is the type of coach you want in the Eastern conference. I also agree that the teams playoff performance may dictate his future with this team.

    George Karl would be a terrible fit for this team. He would immediately attempt to turn the Raps into a West Conf. team. The pace would increase and we would probably score the ball well, but our defence would plummet, and that isn't a good thing in the East when you have to beat teams like Indy and MIA in order to get to the finals.

    A defensive minded coach is what is needed IMO. And this isn't just about schemes, but the coach has to get the players to buy into the effort and intensity and focus needed to successfully implement the schemes. That is the most important part and Casey has been pretty successful in achieving that, so he should be commended for it.

    Also, I feel that MU probably understands the type of coach you need in the East to be successful and he must have seen some potential in Casey, otherwise I feel that he would have just brought in his own guy to run the show in the offseason. But he didn't, instead he elected to bring in some assistants to help Casey on the offensive end, which is where he needs the most help.

    Nonetheless, Casey obviously isn't perfect...but here's the great thing: he is still learning to be a head coach. He is learning his trade as much as our sophomores and young players are learning theirs. So, of course, he is going to make questionable decisions (I still can't get over running the same game ending play two times in a row against Portland). But I feel he can learn from his mistakes and just generally make better in game decisions as he gets more experience and a better understanding of his players and their limitations. Remember, some of his decisions revolve around development, and putting players in situations they are unfamiliar with to see how they will respond. This could account for the giving the ball to Derozan in tight games down the stretch, even though at times he hasn't been able to produce or make the best decision. But if he continues to put DD in those scenarios, then maybe with experience he will improve and develop into a closer. And given Lowry's uncertain future and the desire to develop our young players, the logical choice for Casey is to put the ball in the hands of the guy that is more likely to be around next season. Although the team is in a decent position in terms of seeding, learning and development is still a priority because competing for conference or league Finals is the goal for future years. not this one. If it happens this season, that's just a bonus.

    I'm certainly not advocating resigning Casey. He has his flaws and I'm anxious to see what he gets out of this team down the stretch and into the playoffs. But for me, at this point, I'm on his side and if we continue to play the way we have since the Gay trade, I would be more than happy if he gets resigned in the off season.

  19. #56
    Raptors Republic Superstar planetmars's Avatar
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    I actually believe Casey is coming back.. perhaps for just a 1 or 2 year extension. Coaches can be fired and they don't count against the cap so the length of the contract doesn't really matter.

    The big question is what is MU's strategy for next season?

    We have threads about that topic.. do we know what he's going to do? Is he going to try to keep this core in tact and keep plugging away or is he going to blow it up? If you blow it up than Casey is a bad choice. Get some fresh blood in that can work with the new players. If you want continuity than keep Casey and keep that short leash on him.

    I personally believe it all falls on Lowry. If he comes back than Casey will too. If Lowry is gone than so is Casey. I could be wrong but that's how I feel.

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  21. #57
    Raptors Republic All-Star slaw's Avatar
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    My biggest issue with Casey was always his weakness with game management, particularly at end of games, culminating in that disastrous game early in the season where he let Charlotte run out the clock with a 2-point lead.

    Since then, however, the game management - everything from rotations, timeouts, clock management, end-of-game scenarios - has been vastly improved. You can always criticize every coach for decisions here and there but, generally and for the most part, Casey has pushed the right buttons since the Gay trade.

    It's also had to look at a team that is top ten in both ORTG and DRTG and be too critical of the coach.

    As for the "winning culture" nonsense, as I have said repeatedly, your people are your culture. In Raptorland, there has been a massive turnover of the people in the organization from the President of MLSE on down to the assistant coaches, not to mention the personnel moves getting rid of Bargs and Gay. The Raps have better people, therefore, they have a better culture. Casey is a part of that but he isn't the main reason for it - that credit goes to MLSE and Leiweke.

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  23. #58
    Raptors Republic Rookie RepTdot's Avatar
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    Quote Niagara Raptor wrote: View Post
    now if u want to talk about substitutions or after time out plays that Casey needs to get better but I think he has done a great job creating a good atmosphere in the locker room (Colangelo does deserve credit too because Derozan, Johnson etc were all brought in by him and they are all good character guys )

    I do agree though I would get rid of him if a better coach was available ... sports is a cruel mistress
    I agree, Casey has a lot of room for improvement but unless Masai has George Karl or another proven big name coach locked in to take over there is no point changing coaches after the season we're having. In saying that if a George Karl is locked in then yea...make the change. Also a good point is Colangelo does deserve some credit here...he made a lot of DUMB moves in his time here but the starting 5 & core of this team for now & the future is his work- JV, Ross, Amir, Lowry, DD. I personally think Masai is gonna change coaches...he has a history with George Karl who is unforgivably still available and he is moulding his own team.

  24. #59
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    I think/hope Coach Casey is coming back. I liked how he changed the defense, but I don't like how he ran the offense. This season has been up and down, but after the Gay trade, he seems to have gotten his shit together and I saw improvements in many areas of his coaching (after timeout plays, calling timeouts at the right time to gain control of the momentum, end game defense like late-game fouling which was a huge issue during one bobcats game, and a better set of plays as displayed by better ball movement).

    This team has not proven itself yet playoff wise, so I don't think it's reasonable to get an experienced coach right away, who would likely ruin the player development. Kinda reminds me of how Butch Carter coached the team to the first ever playoffs then hired Lenny Wilkins the next season (although I'm not sure about the whole Butch Carter story, but I remember Charles Oakley saying on OTR that Lenny Wilkins ruined the team). I would give the team 2-3 years. If there's no improvement or if they regress, it's time for a coaching change. Right now, coaching is not the main issue imo.

    Coach Casey is a good motivator, I'd give him that. And so far, in his interviews, he's been very professional, he doesn't/hasn't called out guys via the media. He has a championship and is highly recommended by Ric Carlisle who's a proven NBA coach.

    For those of you guys saying that Sam Mitchell is the best Raptors coach ever and want him back, I have to disagree. Sam Mitchell also has no plays, his plays are mainly Bosh iso on the perimeter and letting Calderon do the playmaking. And I lost respect for the guy coaching wise after hearing the Jalen Rose interview on how he basically allowed Kobe to drop 81 on the team. He hasn't had a head coaching job ever since, despite him winning a COY. That tells us something.

  25. #60
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    Quote KeonClark wrote: View Post
    I hope he's gone but that's me. He's a good coach but the end of game iso's are bruuutal. He also plays favorites, you'll never see him give shit to patterson or salmons, yet he'll embarass amir in front of everybody. Its like he's scared of new guys, vets and stars.
    In agreement. MU should try to find George Karl or Stan van Gundy type coach. If unable to land big fish Casey could be fallback guy. If Casey could improve his forth quarter play calling I could live with the other stuff. I fear this will do us in at the end of tight playoff games.

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