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Thread: What to do with Greivis Vasquez?

  1. #41
    Raptors Republic Starter TSF's Avatar
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    Quote mmejias19 wrote: View Post
    let me tell something you guys are talking about greivis and dont know nothing about him. you said that hi goes up and down.. he had a surgery in his ankle i wanna see you guys working as hard as him to get to nba level.. snce his first year he only have been improving and led the nba in assist around 700 not rondo not CP and with a losing team.. if he is taking shots im sure that is the coach is asking for... and lowry always play with JV AMIR DEROZAN AND ROSS.. GREIVIS playd with the second team SALMONS PP HANSBROUG sometimes NOVAK SO TELL ME?? and we are not clippers or miami or pacers that have a all star bench.. and is funny cuz you blame his last two turnovers but dont blame that lowry miss twice to win unselfish too and derozan miss couple of FT... love General Greivis and his game and he is young he could bring greatness to the raptors if you give him the starter spot.. GO RAPS!!
    A) As an NBA athlete, his work ethic and recovery is judged against his peers, not average humans. And players come back just fine from way more serious than bone spur removal.
    B) He also had Eric Gordon, Anthony Davis, Ryan Anderson, and was really the only main guy dishing the ball. I'm not discounting his above-average season, but it's not like averaging it as a member of the bucks or this year's pistons.
    C) Vasquez's most common lineups (all within ten minutes played of each other): Vasquez-DD-Salmons-Patterson-Hansborough, Vasquez-DD-Salmons-Patterson-Hayes, Vasquez-Ross-Salmons-Patterson-Hayes, Vasquez-DD-Salmons-Amir-Val. There isn't a single bad shooter on there for their position.
    D) We don't have an all-star bench? Lineups that include GV and have at least one other bench player are +33, +30, +10, +4, +4, and +1. Our bench is routinely winning against other people's benches.
    E) Dude, really? You're going to say give him the starter spot? With our starter averaging 20 PER to GV's 12, .2 WS/48 to .06? Kyle Averages 17 and 7, in 36.5 minutes. Vasquez's per 36, which is inflated because he doesn't face other team's starters? 14 and 7. Every advanced and regular stat is saying KL is a way better option... and that's BEFORE you account for the fact that Kyle is way, way, way, way, WAY better on D. Kyle has 2.6 Defensive Win Shares just this season, GV has 3.3 Defensive Win Shares over the course of his entire career.
    F) Young? He's 27 years, 43 days old. Kyle is 27 years, 340 days. He's older than every other starter we have. He may only have 3 seasons of experience, but this guy played 4 years of college ball. He's not young.

    Don't say we don't know anything about him when we've been watching him every game, and seeing his stats to confirm what our eyes see. He's an above-average offensive PG who doesn't play good defense pretty much ever, and averaged over 3 turnovers per game in his only full-time gig. If you think he should get the starter spot, you're insane.
    @Boymusic66

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  3. #42
    Raptors Republic All-Star BigCamB's Avatar
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    ^^ This post wins the thread (imo), can't add anything more to that.

    Interesting though that Lowry has been in the league 4 more years but is less than a year older than the "young" Vasquez.

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    Raptors Republic Veteran MACK11's Avatar
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    Quote mmejias19 wrote: View Post
    let me tell something you guys are talking about greivis and dont know nothing about him. you said that hi goes up and down.. he had a surgery in his ankle i wanna see you guys working as hard as him to get to nba level.. snce his first year he only have been improving and led the nba in assist around 700 not rondo not CP and with a losing team.. if he is taking shots im sure that is the coach is asking for... and lowry always play with JV AMIR DEROZAN AND ROSS.. GREIVIS playd with the second team SALMONS PP HANSBROUG sometimes NOVAK SO TELL ME?? and we are not clippers or miami or pacers that have a all star bench.. and is funny cuz you blame his last two turnovers but dont blame that lowry miss twice to win unselfish too and derozan miss couple of FT... love General Greivis and his game and he is young he could bring greatness to the raptors if you give him the starter spot.. GO RAPS!!
    WHOA WHOA WHOA if GV became a starter on this team we wouldnt win more then 25 games

  5. #44
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    Fact is there might be a handful of teams that would trade their starter for lowry and another handful that might not even trade their backup for him. Lowry as a starter getting paid ~10m? um no ... Give me gv at a major discount everytime thx.

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    Quote Wiggins wrote: View Post
    Fact is there might be a handful of teams that would trade their starter for lowry and another handful that might not even trade their backup for him. Lowry as a starter getting paid ~10m? um no ... Give me gv at a major discount everytime thx.
    GV has no future in toronto if Casey is the coach because GV can't defend worth a fuck. Ideally we sign Lowry now for 3 years, front load his contract as much as possible, draft a pg and let him learn from Lowry for 2 years before moving Lowry to a back up role or trading him as an expiring. That's my ideal case, most likely won't happen but GV has no part in it.

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    Raptors Republic Superstar iblastoff's Avatar
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    Quote Uncle_Si wrote: View Post
    GV has no future in toronto if Casey is the coach because GV can't defend worth a fuck. Ideally we sign Lowry now for 3 years, front load his contract as much as possible, draft a pg and let him learn from Lowry for 2 years before moving Lowry to a back up role or trading him as an expiring. That's my ideal case, most likely won't happen but GV has no part in it.
    dont bother responding to that user. its an obvious troll.

  8. #47
    Raptors Republic Rookie OldSchool's Avatar
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    GV as a starter is only a good idea if he's your tank commander. As it turns out the tank strategy is out the window but Im perfectly fine with having GV as out backup. Don't you guys remember Dwight Buycks, Stone and Augustin stinking it up as our backups?! Its funny how a lot of the posters here always find something to complain and bitch about lol.

    We're winning for once. Playoff bound finally. Watched DD come all the way from scrub with potential to all-star. Got rid of Bargs and Colangelo. Above 500. 3rd/4th in the east. Finally have a winning chemistry and the Raps are genuinely fun team to watch.

    Enjoy it while its here. Stop bitching and lean back. damn

  9. #48
    Raptors Republic Rookie Mauro150611's Avatar
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    Quote TSF wrote: View Post
    A) As an NBA athlete, his work ethic and recovery is judged against his peers, not average humans. And players come back just fine from way more serious than bone spur removal.
    B) He also had Eric Gordon, Anthony Davis, Ryan Anderson, and was really the only main guy dishing the ball. I'm not discounting his above-average season, but it's not like averaging it as a member of the bucks or this year's pistons.
    C) Vasquez's most common lineups (all within ten minutes played of each other): Vasquez-DD-Salmons-Patterson-Hansborough, Vasquez-DD-Salmons-Patterson-Hayes, Vasquez-Ross-Salmons-Patterson-Hayes, Vasquez-DD-Salmons-Amir-Val. There isn't a single bad shooter on there for their position.
    D) We don't have an all-star bench? Lineups that include GV and have at least one other bench player are +33, +30, +10, +4, +4, and +1. Our bench is routinely winning against other people's benches.
    E) Dude, really? You're going to say give him the starter spot? With our starter averaging 20 PER to GV's 12, .2 WS/48 to .06? Kyle Averages 17 and 7, in 36.5 minutes. Vasquez's per 36, which is inflated because he doesn't face other team's starters? 14 and 7. Every advanced and regular stat is saying KL is a way better option... and that's BEFORE you account for the fact that Kyle is way, way, way, way, WAY better on D. Kyle has 2.6 Defensive Win Shares just this season, GV has 3.3 Defensive Win Shares over the course of his entire career.
    F) Young? He's 27 years, 43 days old. Kyle is 27 years, 340 days. He's older than every other starter we have. He may only have 3 seasons of experience, but this guy played 4 years of college ball. He's not young.

    Don't say we don't know anything about him when we've been watching him every game, and seeing his stats to confirm what our eyes see. He's an above-average offensive PG who doesn't play good defense pretty much ever, and averaged over 3 turnovers per game in his only full-time gig. If you think he should get the starter spot, you're insane.

    Greivis Vasquez is a great PG, to the top of the NBA and proved last year in New Orleans. comes from a strong injury. already started to grab his best. Its performance is on the rise.
    you like statistics? then check this out;

    Greivis Vasquez Last 10 games:
    MPP: 21.6
    FG%: .483
    3P%: .450
    APG: 3.4
    PPG: 10.7
    PE: 2.1

    After the All-Star (6 games):
    MPP: 24.0
    FG%: .500
    3P%: .464
    APG: 4.0
    PPG: 14.2
    PE: 2.0

    GV gets better game by game, I believe in him, I have years of seeing their stats and I am sure that this player has no limits ...
    we'll see your numbers to end of season and you will be able to give a real review of GV.

  10. #49
    Raptors Republic All-Star stooley's Avatar
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    Quote Mauro150611 wrote: View Post
    Greivis Vasquez is a great PG, to the top of the NBA and proved last year in New Orleans. comes from a strong injury. already started to grab his best. Its performance is on the rise.
    you like statistics? then check this out;

    Greivis Vasquez Last 10 games:
    MPP: 21.6
    FG%: .483
    3P%: .450
    APG: 3.4
    PPG: 10.7
    PE: 2.1

    After the All-Star (6 games):
    MPP: 24.0
    FG%: .500
    3P%: .464
    APG: 4.0
    PPG: 14.2
    PE: 2.0

    GV gets better game by game, I believe in him, I have years of seeing their stats and I am sure that this player has no limits ...
    we'll see your numbers to end of season and you will be able to give a real review of GV.
    I agree with this google-translated post.

    I think he's good.

    It's understandable that he had a slow start. He was a point guard on a new team, getting ~15 minutes a night. It's hard to find a groove playing that many minutes.

    Let's wait until the end of the season to judge.

    Also... How can people say that he's a bad backup PG.

    GS was just lauded for trading for Steve Blake because he'll offer them so much stability in that position. There are maybe 5 backup PGs in the league better than GV. Likely closer to 1 or 2 though.

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  12. #50
    Raptors Republic All-Star JawsGT's Avatar
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    Quote stooley wrote: View Post

    Also... How can people say that he's a bad backup PG.

    GS was just lauded for trading for Steve Blake because he'll offer them so much stability in that position. There are maybe 5 backup PGs in the league better than GV. Likely closer to 1 or 2 though.
    Yeah, after going through Telfair, DJ, Stone, and Byucks recently you'd think people would be satisfied with Vasquez as a backup.

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    Raptors Republic Superstar Puffer's Avatar
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    Quote JawsGT wrote: View Post
    Yeah, after going through Telfair, DJ, Stone, and Byucks recently you'd think people would be satisfied with Vasquez as a backup.
    I don't think many people are upset with GV as a backup. Many will have issues with GV as a starter, primarily because he D will hurt proportionately more if he is on the starting five.

  14. #52
    Raptors Republic All-Star JimiCliff's Avatar
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    Quote JawsGT wrote: View Post
    Yeah, after going through Telfair, DJ, Stone, and Byucks recently you'd think people would be satisfied with Vasquez as a backup.
    Maybe someone mentioned this before, but he isn't exclusively a backup. He's more like a half-backup. He plays a lot of crunch-time (in Casey's mother*!%$ing two PG line-up), and this is when his presence can be a little bothersome.
    Last edited by JimiCliff; Thu Mar 6th, 2014 at 03:47 PM.

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    Raptors Republic All-Star JawsGT's Avatar
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    Quote JimiCliff wrote: View Post
    Maybe someone mentioned this before, but he isn't exclusively a backup. He's more like a half-backup. He plays a lot of crunch-time (in Casey's mother*!%$ing two PG line-up), and this is when his presence can be a little bothersome.
    Hasn't this team had alot of success with both of them on the floor? I'm not sure, but I thought I read something somewhere suggesting our 2PG lineup has done pretty well. I'm too lazy to search. But I don't mind Vasquez either way. I do wish he would get more assists though, he tends to shoot a bit too much I'll admit. But having him as a backup isn't much to complain about IMO.

  17. #54
    Raptors Republic Rookie Mauro150611's Avatar
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    I want to know where are the Vasquez criticized both in this post?

    And I told you, would improve ... why could not draw conclusions about a player that came from an injury.

    This is a PG that easily has to be a starter on any team.

    Of course, a month later, their numbers gave me the reason:

    Vasquez Last 10 games:
    MPG: 27.4
    FG%: .457
    3TP%: .500
    APG: 3.9
    RPG 3
    PPG: 14.5

    In the last 10 games, Toronto has won 7.


    Last vasquez 4 games (three starts):

    MPG: 33.3
    FG%: .470
    3TP%: .581
    APG 4
    RPG 4
    PPG: 17

    Note that of those 4 games, 3 were against teams that are classifieds a PLAYOFF. teams Highly favored to win their conference (MIA, HOU, IND).

    They doubt their potential?
    give him more value to what Vasquez does for the team. It is not a coincidence that the team improved since his arrival.

  18. #55
    Raptors Republic Veteran white men can't jump's Avatar
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    Quote Mauro150611 wrote: View Post
    I want to know where are the Vasquez criticized both in this post?

    And I told you, would improve ... why could not draw conclusions about a player that came from an injury.

    This is a PG that easily has to be a starter on any team.

    Of course, a month later, their numbers gave me the reason:

    Vasquez Last 10 games:
    MPG: 27.4
    FG%: .457
    3TP%: .500
    APG: 3.9
    RPG 3
    PPG: 14.5

    In the last 10 games, Toronto has won 7.


    Last vasquez 4 games (three starts):

    MPG: 33.3
    FG%: .470
    3TP%: .581
    APG 4
    RPG 4
    PPG: 17

    Note that of those 4 games, 3 were against teams that are classifieds a PLAYOFF. teams Highly favored to win their conference (MIA, HOU, IND).

    They doubt their potential?
    give him more value to what Vasquez does for the team. It is not a coincidence that the team improved since his arrival.
    The only thing he's been doing well in this stretch is 3 pt shooting. He's been horrible at initiating offence and distributing. And I'm pretty sure a one-legged blind man could defend better than he has.

    You're getting way too excited about a very meh stretch.

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    Raptors Republic All-Star YoungGunRaptor's Avatar
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    I agree with much that has been said in this thread.

    I like GV. He gets better by the game, and has performed admirably in KL7's absence. I honestly would really like to keep him as the backup PG on this team. I love his passion, and him and Lowry on court=incredible ball movement.

    Nando is great as well, and given his height he can be our reserve PG/SG.

    That being said, if there is any way we can bring in a quality PG like Ennis via the draft, I would allow GV to walk.
    “You can sink and drown, or you can float, and we out here like Michael Phelps."
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    I like our bench right now, nice and young (outside of Hayes)

    Sent from my HTC One using Tapatalk

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    Raptors Republic Rookie Mauro150611's Avatar
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    Quote white men can't jump wrote: View Post
    The only thing he's been doing well in this stretch is 3 pt shooting. He's been horrible at initiating offence and distributing. And I'm pretty sure a one-legged blind man could defend better than he has.

    You're getting way too excited about a very meh stretch.
    In itself, toronto 80% of players defends evil. you can not qualify a player just for his defense.

    It bothers me is that not value what vasquez has done for the team.

    Remember that five years had playoff ungraded,
    rudy gay in the team, toronto would see play from the stands.

    You forget how They played Toronto before.

    men, Patterson and Vasquez have much to do in the improvement of the team.

    Excuse my Inglés, use translator.

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    Raptors Republic Rookie Mauro150611's Avatar
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    Quote YoungGunRaptor wrote: View Post
    I agree with much that has been said in this thread.

    I like GV. He gets better by the game, and has performed admirably in KL7's absence. I honestly would really like to keep him as the backup PG on this team. I love his passion, and him and Lowry on court=incredible ball movement.

    Nando is great as well, and given his height he can be our reserve PG/SG.

    That being said, if there is any way we can bring in a quality PG like Ennis via the draft, I would allow GV to walk.
    Good

  24. #60
    Raptors Republic Rookie Jack_Bauer's Avatar
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    Quote Mauro150611 wrote: View Post
    I want to know where are the Vasquez criticized both in this post?

    And I told you, would improve ... why could not draw conclusions about a player that came from an injury.

    This is a PG that easily has to be a starter on any team.

    Of course, a month later, their numbers gave me the reason:

    Vasquez Last 10 games:
    MPG: 27.4
    FG%: .457
    3TP%: .500
    APG: 3.9
    RPG 3
    PPG: 14.5

    In the last 10 games, Toronto has won 7.


    Last vasquez 4 games (three starts):

    MPG: 33.3
    FG%: .470
    3TP%: .581
    APG 4
    RPG 4
    PPG: 17

    Note that of those 4 games, 3 were against teams that are classifieds a PLAYOFF. teams Highly favored to win their conference (MIA, HOU, IND).

    They doubt their potential?
    give him more value to what Vasquez does for the team. It is not a coincidence that the team improved since his arrival.
    GV has been playing better, likely due to getting more comfortable coming off the bench, health etc. (as you or someone else predicted). I was never taking anything away from him as a player. He's an above average backup PG (and a huge upgrade over Augustin, Stone, Byucks, and even De Colo), but his decision making has still been suspect.

    I feel that for all the good he does on the floor, he gives it back with bad decisions, turnovers and poor defense. Maybe some of this is due to the fact that he's the only guard/wing who can score off the bench. So he's looking for his shot more than he normally would. However, if he can rein his game in a little bit more and find a better balance, I think he will become an even better player.

    I'm happy to have him on the team and glad he's turning things around. We're going to need his contributions in the playoffs.
    Last edited by Jack_Bauer; Sun Apr 6th, 2014 at 09:59 PM.

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