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Thread: The Tanking Problem

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    Raptors Republic Starter TSF's Avatar
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    Default The Tanking Problem

    Doing some reading of old Grantland material due to boredom, and came across this puppy, which could solve the tanking problem once and for all.

    http://www.sloansportsconference.com/?p=5496

    Grantland's Sean Mcindoe explaining it:

    "Here’s how it works: The top draft positions will be awarded based on points earned after playoff elimination. Once a team is officially out of the playoff race, it starts the clock on amassing points toward its draft position. Bad teams still get an advantage (because they’re eliminated earlier), but now the emphasis is on winning, not just on riding out the string. It’s relatively simple, and it’s brilliant.

    You’re telling me you wouldn’t be excited the day the “no. 1 overall pick points” column appeared in the standings? If we were lucky, we could even have late-season showdowns for the top picks. And fans watching those games would actually be cheering for their own teams to win. Imagine that."
    @Boymusic66

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    Raptors Republic Superstar Superjudge's Avatar
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    so teams lose 70 game son purpose then give a little effort for a better pick?

    Ya, awesome idea.

    How about this.... don't filter stars t0 major markets, and make much stronger cap and free agnecy rules that will help create parity.

    The system in place is fine. They allow idea's like this one to become topics of discussion to take attention away from the real reasons bad teams stay bad.

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    The big issue with that "after elimination" idea is the conference difference. A bad West team would get eliminated earlier than an equally bad East team. So they can start collecting points earlier. In a year like this one, you would probably have like 5 West teams fininishing top 5 in the lottery, over many crappier East teams. And then you get an eternal circle. West gets the best picks, they keep having more good teams, their crappy teams keep getting eliminated earlier and earlier, and keep getting the top prospects. Free agency will help the East a little, but overall West will just keep getting better and better. In 10 years, you will probably have a situation where West has 10 50 wins teams and their 30 wins teams collect high lottery picks, while the East is full of crappy teams that struggle to get good prospects.

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    Raptors Republic Starter 3inthekeon's Avatar
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    Quote Craig wrote: View Post
    so teams lose 70 game son purpose then give a little effort for a better pick?

    Ya, awesome idea.

    How about this.... don't filter stars t0 major markets, and make much stronger cap and free agnecy rules that will help create parity.

    The system in place is fine. They allow idea's like this one to become topics of discussion to take attention away from the real reasons bad teams stay bad.
    So a 70 loss team can suddenly turn it on? Not in this reality. Really bad teams aren't due to lack of effort. The causes are invariably lack of talent, extreme dysfunction or extreme youth.

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    Raptors Republic Starter 3inthekeon's Avatar
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    Quote BobLoblaw wrote: View Post
    The big issue with that "after elimination" idea is the conference difference. A bad West team would get eliminated earlier than an equally bad East team. So they can start collecting points earlier. In a year like this one, you would probably have like 5 West teams fininishing top 5 in the lottery, over many crappier East teams. And then you get an eternal circle. West gets the best picks, they keep having more good teams, their crappy teams keep getting eliminated earlier and earlier, and keep getting the top prospects. Free agency will help the East a little, but overall West will just keep getting better and better. In 10 years, you will probably have a situation where West has 10 50 wins teams and their 30 wins teams collect high lottery picks, while the East is full of crappy teams that struggle to get good prospects.
    Didn't MLB have a system in the past where the draft alternated, with the NL picking 1-3-5-7-9 etc one year and the AL the next?

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    Raptors Republic Superstar isaacthompson's Avatar
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    Quote 3inthekeon wrote: View Post
    So a 70 loss team can suddenly turn it on? Not in this reality. Really bad teams aren't due to lack of effort. The causes are invariably lack of talent, extreme dysfunction or extreme youth.
    Boom!

    If you're losing 70 games, there's no way you're winning this "standings" thing.
    Twitter - @thekid_it

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    Raptors Republic All-Star e_wheazhy_'s Avatar
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    Quote BobLoblaw wrote: View Post
    The big issue with that "after elimination" idea is the conference difference. A bad West team would get eliminated earlier than an equally bad East team. So they can start collecting points earlier. In a year like this one, you would probably have like 5 West teams fininishing top 5 in the lottery, over many crappier East teams. And then you get an eternal circle. West gets the best picks, they keep having more good teams, their crappy teams keep getting eliminated earlier and earlier, and keep getting the top prospects. Free agency will help the East a little, but overall West will just keep getting better and better. In 10 years, you will probably have a situation where West has 10 50 wins teams and their 30 wins teams collect high lottery picks, while the East is full of crappy teams that struggle to get good prospects.
    Good point. Maybe the non playoff teams can get less points for close losses (6 points or less). That way the teams that are already good don't have as much of a chance of getting even better.

    There are going to be flaws with any proposed change, mind you.
    A key that opens many locks is a master key, but a lock that gets open by many keys is just a shitty lock

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    Raptors Republic Veteran MACK11's Avatar
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    My solution would be that all the teams that dont make the playoofs have an equal chance to win the lottery so you wont see teams try to intentionally have the worst record for a better chance at landing #1 pick
    Masai treats the Knicks like they are his personal farm team system, where he can cultivate assets for the future. It's not right or fair, but he's THE WARLORD

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    Quote 3inthekeon wrote: View Post
    So a 70 loss team can suddenly turn it on? Not in this reality. Really bad teams aren't due to lack of effort. The causes are invariably lack of talent, extreme dysfunction or extreme youth.
    hahaha ok, then where is the problem with the system?

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    Quote isaacthompson wrote: View Post
    Boom!

    If you're losing 70 games, there's no way you're winning this "standings" thing.
    what da fuck.... did you just "boom" that comment?

    Oh shit no you didnot.


    You guys gotta stop, ever, , ever, siding against my absolute awesome.

    really you do.

    I'm so smart it is lonely and sad in my head.

    HA!

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    My solution is contracting the bottom 8 teams in the league in attendance and revenue.




    THEN you wont have a problem with ANYTHING

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    Quote Craig wrote: View Post
    hahaha ok, then where is the problem with the system?
    You mean with the current system? People don't like that many GMs intentionally make their teams bad. I.e., tanking.

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    good lord
    they DONT

    how do people think this is a new concept....its been around in business for decades.

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    It's an old concept, but you asked... So I explained.
    I suspect you maybe meant something different but tbh you aren't easy to understand sometimes because of all the flair

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    I think there needs to be financial incentive to get teams willing to push. Otherwise, the draw for a Wiggins type talent is simply too strong.

    A set-up that sees everyone but the top 10 picking teams share in the playoff revenue (and perhaps some other pot of money ~ TV? Sales?) would make many owners and teams to strive to be competitive.

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    Quote 4hunnit_degreez wrote: View Post
    My solution would be that all the teams that dont make the playoofs have an equal chance to win the lottery so you wont see teams try to intentionally have the worst record for a better chance at landing #1 pick
    I like this idea.

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    Raptors Republic Starter 3inthekeon's Avatar
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    Tanking gets all the press, but an issue that helps drive tanking is concentration of talent, especially premium free agent talent, in a few choice markets. The NBA is fine with that, because for the most part those are the big revenue generators. States with no income taxes have a built-in advantage, as do large markets with numerous endorsement possibilities.

    The wheel draft lottery system will help these teams even more than the current system.

    A hard cap would help balance the inequities somewhat, but that would also either mean players would as a group see a share of the money they currently make end up in owners pockets if the cap was at the lower end, or with a much higher hard cap, small market teams would still be at a competitive disadvantage.

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    Quote JawsGT wrote: View Post
    I like this idea.
    Then you possibly have winning record teams that just missed the playoffs and win the lottery that are now in a position to draft a generational talent
    A key that opens many locks is a master key, but a lock that gets open by many keys is just a shitty lock

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    Quote e_wheazhy_ wrote: View Post
    Then you possibly have winning record teams that just missed the playoffs and win the lottery that are now in a position to draft a generational talent
    Which suggests their management was actually trying to win ballgames. That's a problem?

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    Quote 3inthekeon wrote: View Post
    Which suggests their management was actually trying to win ballgames. That's a problem?
    The whole point of the draft is that the worst teams get the chance to pick the better players, it evens out the talent pool and makes the league more competitive. If we start giving away good players to well managed teams (who are good and already have good players)... Well I'm sure I don't have to spell it out for you (your nickname tells me you're a pretty smart guy)

    If that was the case, lets just give the heat all the first overall picks for the next 10 years, their management pulled off an impressive feat
    A key that opens many locks is a master key, but a lock that gets open by many keys is just a shitty lock

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