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Thread: Why Is It Better That We Have Vasquez and Not Augustin?

  1. #1
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    Default Why Is It Better That We Have Vasquez and Not Augustin?

    When we got waived Augustin and eventually eventually made Grevis our backup, I thought that we would be in a better position, mostly because Vasquez is taller and thus less of a defensive liability.

    I'm watching the Bulls-Rockets right now, and thinking about what we've seen from Vasquez so far, and I'm just wondering if we would not have been better off with Augustin. Vasquez is just as much of a defensive liability because...well...he sucks. And Augustin is a far superior offensive player

    Maybe Augustin would have been better in the post Gay trade?

    I'm afraid vasquez will give me a heart attack in the playoffs...

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    Augustin would have been better, in my opinion. Vasquez believes he's going to start in this league again. But as far as next year for a backup point guard, I want Kirk Hinrich.

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    Raptors Republic Veteran MACK11's Avatar
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    Quote BallaBalla wrote: View Post
    When we got waived Augustin and eventually eventually made Grevis our backup, I thought that we would be in a better position, mostly because Vasquez is taller and thus less of a defensive liability.

    I'm watching the Bulls-Rockets right now, and thinking about what we've seen from Vasquez so far, and I'm just wondering if we would not have been better off with Augustin. Vasquez is just as much of a defensive liability because...well...he sucks. And Augustin is a far superior offensive player

    Maybe Augustin would have been better in the post Gay trade?

    I'm afraid vasquez will give me a heart attack in the playoffs...
    With the way Vasquez plays I guarantee you this will happen
    Masai treats the Knicks like they are his personal farm team system, where he can cultivate assets for the future. It's not right or fair, but he's THE WARLORD

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    Raptors Republic Rookie RaptorsForever's Avatar
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    yea i'm curious to see how dj would've played post rudy gay. On the other hand, having two small point guards would've been a problem as casey constantly uses a 2 pg lineup.

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    Not sure if one is better than the other, or if that was part of the equation. The Raps needed to move a player. To make a trade work they had to get a return of 4 players while giving up 3 players. That meant taking on an extra contract.

    From the outside it looks like they like Buycks potential, and want to develop him. So the choice was between Stone and DJ. Stone is longer and can play multiple positions. DJ wasn't getting the minutes on the floor that a vet would need to improve his value for future contracts, and was under-sized to play the 2 as explained by R4F.

    Vasquez had a more difficult contract to buy out and can play on the floor and play some 2. That fits the coach's system. Yes, they could have kept him, but what type of player do you want at the end of the Rap bench? a young player with potential to grow? Or, a player who would be better served getting minutes on a team that needs his services? Hasn't this worked out for both teams, and players? I never saw this as either or.

    A team can't keep all it's assets, let players be miserable at the end o the bench and expect free agents to sign contracts, or expect that the locker room won't be effected by the players' bitterness. Sometimes, the best move is to let a player play elsewhere.

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    Raptors Republic All-Star JawsGT's Avatar
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    DJ never seemed to get settled in TO and he never had the same type of opportunity he is getting in CHI. He needs a longer leash to be effective, and probably more minutes than he was getting here. I think he needs more freedom than he got in TO with the ball. I don't think Casey wanted or needed him to be a scorer, and that's what he is. Based on how he is playing now, he looks better than Vasquez, but CHI needs him to be a scorer more than we do, so ultimately I think it has worked out for everyone.

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    Every single player in the NBA has talent.... EVERY SINGLE ONE.

    You don't reach the best league in the world without being dominant at some point along the way.

    Often the difference between a successful career and getting bounced from the league for the majority of players (read: role players) is chance.

    Opportunity, chemistry, and fit matter more to most NBA players than talent and skill, in my opinion.


    Augustin had opportunities here.

    It wasn't a fit.

    For whatever reason what Casey wanted, Augustin couldn't deliver.

    That is not a knock on Casey. THat is not a knock on AUgustin.

    Augustin played well in Charlotte and Chicago.
    He did not play well in Indiana or Toronto.
    "You donít know the Bruno Caboclo......"
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    Raptors Republic Veteran Nilanka's Avatar
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    Augustin didn't make the best of his opportunities.

    But on the other hand, not sure what Casey was thinking splitting backup minutes between Augustin, Buycks and Stone. One is a proven NBA point guard, while the other 2 are D-Leaguers.
    "I don't lie. I willfully participate in a campaign of misinformation." - Fox Mulder

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    Quote Nilanka wrote: View Post
    Augustin didn't make the best of his opportunities.

    But on the other hand, not sure what Casey was thinking splitting backup minutes between Augustin, Buycks and Stone. One is a proven NBA point guard, while the other 2 are D-Leaguers.
    That was my thought

    I know everyone has talent, but Augustin was never given the 9 man rotation spot that vasquez has, and like I said, I don't think we would have been any worse off defensively.

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    Raptors Republic All-Star Mediumcore's Avatar
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    That Chicago offense seems to be built for point guards to succeed. This is arguably the best DJ has looked his entire career similar to Nate Robinson in Chicago last year. As Matt already mentioned, DJ just didn't fit into the Raptors offense, and I'm not sure he would if you put him in this line up now either. Keep in mind he would be playing with the bench, not with the starting line up.

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    Raptors Republic Superstar planetmars's Avatar
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    The point guard spot is difficult off the bench. Most backup PG's are tasked to shoulder quite a responsibility by having to get inferior players in better scoring positions and/or make a jump shot (when they themselves are cold coming off the bench). Even Lowry struggled off the bench when Jose was starting last year. GV averaged 9 apg when he played in NO as a starter.

    I think DJ relishes his role in Chicago because he gets to play with the starting line up. His job becomes so much easier.

    I'm happy for him. His play with the Bulls will most likely keep him in the league now at least for his next contract. What ticked me off was that MU waived him instead of traded him. For such an important piece in Chicago's line up - I'm sure they would have been willing to give us at least a 2nd rounder for him. Perhaps MU felt bad for the veteran and let him find a team of his choosing? Maybe he just wanted to do a solid for him and his agent perhaps... but it would have been nice to get an asset back after seeing what's he's been doing there in Chicago.

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    Quote Nilanka wrote: View Post
    Augustin didn't make the best of his opportunities.

    But on the other hand, not sure what Casey was thinking splitting backup minutes between Augustin, Buycks and Stone. One is a proven NBA point guard, while the other 2 are D-Leaguers.
    Don't forget guys, the backup spot was DJ's to lose at the beginning of the year. He wasn't delivering. He forced Casey to try out Dwight and Stone. DJ was also pretty terrible in Indiana last year, so it wasn't like he just got bad in TO.

    Also, Thibs.
    Eh follow my TWITTER!

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    Raptors Republic Starter KeonClark's Avatar
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    How can people use the Rudy gay trade as an excuse? August in was getting like 14 min a night with the 2nd unit. It didn't work, nobody here thought t was working or would work. Move on.

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    Quote Employee wrote: View Post
    Don't forget guys, the backup spot was DJ's to lose at the beginning of the year. He wasn't delivering. He forced Casey to try out Dwight and Stone. DJ was also pretty terrible in Indiana last year, so it wasn't like he just got bad in TO.

    Also, Thibs.
    But that's my question. What did he not deliver that vasquez is delivering? Why isn't vasquez in a 3 man platoon with Dwight and Stone?

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    Quote BallaBalla wrote: View Post
    But that's my question. What did he not deliver that vasquez is delivering? Why isn't vasquez in a 3 man platoon with Dwight and Stone?
    Because he's better lol


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    Quote Employee wrote: View Post
    Also, Thibs.
    Yes. He is becoming one of those rare head coaches that actually makes guys better....

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    Quote BallaBalla wrote: View Post
    But that's my question. What did he not deliver that vasquez is delivering? Why isn't vasquez in a 3 man platoon with Dwight and Stone?
    http://www.suntimes.com/sports/baske...-augustin.html

    Here's what Augustin has to say....

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    Quote planetmars wrote: View Post
    I'm happy for him. His play with the Bulls will most likely keep him in the league now at least for his next contract. What ticked me off was that MU waived him instead of traded him. For such an important piece in Chicago's line up - I'm sure they would have been willing to give us at least a 2nd rounder for him. Perhaps MU felt bad for the veteran and let him find a team of his choosing? Maybe he just wanted to do a solid for him and his agent perhaps... but it would have been nice to get an asset back after seeing what's he's been doing there in Chicago.
    If you don't think Masai did a quick run around the league as the Rudy trade was happening to see if anybody wanted Augustin cheaply (cash, a second-rounder, etc.) you're nuts. There's no chance Masai didn't at least check to see if he could get even a little something for Augustin, and nobody bit because this was the second team in a row where Augustin had been given an opportunity and flunked.

    Nobody was going to give up anything for him because they knew he was going to be released following the Rudy trade because he and Austin Daye were the least valuable players Toronto had, and Daye hadn't gotten minutes to flunk out yet and DJ had, so if you want DJ, do you give up extra assets for him or wait for the inevitable waiver and just sign him for less expense?

    It's always good to remember that, the Bargnani trade aside, most NBA GMs aren't blitheringly stupid.

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    Quote magoon wrote: View Post
    If you don't think Masai did a quick run around the league as the Rudy trade was happening to see if anybody wanted Augustin cheaply (cash, a second-rounder, etc.) you're nuts. There's no chance Masai didn't at least check to see if he could get even a little something for Augustin, and nobody bit because this was the second team in a row where Augustin had been given an opportunity and flunked.

    Nobody was going to give up anything for him because they knew he was going to be released following the Rudy trade because he and Austin Daye were the least valuable players Toronto had, and Daye hadn't gotten minutes to flunk out yet and DJ had, so if you want DJ, do you give up extra assets for him or wait for the inevitable waiver and just sign him for less expense?

    It's always good to remember that, the Bargnani trade aside, most NBA GMs aren't blitheringly stupid.
    Betting on an "inevitable waiver" is risky. What happens if MU holds on to him? Yes DJ stunk but it's not like Stone or Buycks were any better. DJ was basically an expiring as well.

    All we have is hindsight at this point. He could have been trying to sell DJ and nobody bit.. but the better option would have been for him to keep DJ and waive Stone (or Bucyks). The trade deadline was still a couple of months away. At that point Chicago could have been more desperate and offered a 2nd rounder. And if nobody bit after the deadline was over then he could have waived him.

    But again I think MU moved DJ because he was doing him a favour and not because it was the smartest move from an asset point of view.

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    Quote BallaBalla wrote: View Post
    But that's my question. What did he not deliver that vasquez is delivering? Why isn't vasquez in a 3 man platoon with Dwight and Stone?
    Really? Dude, Vasquez is playing way better than DJ was. He's far from perfect, but he's a very solid backup PG.
    Eh follow my TWITTER!

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