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Thread: How would things turn out if Gay stayed and DD was traded?

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    Default How would things turn out if Gay stayed and DD was traded?

    Say that somehow the salary worked out where we got the exact group of guys in return for DD instead of Gay. You guys think we'd do better or worse? Tross could then play his natural position at the 2 spot and Rudy would play the 3. For sure our wing D would be better.

    I know this is just what if's and crazy talk, but I wonder how things would have panned out....

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    It's kinda hard to tell. Would Gay buy into the team-oriented, swing-the-ball philosophy or not?

    If he did the team would probably be slightly better and Gay would've made the all-star team.

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    Raptors Republic Veteran white men can't jump's Avatar
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    Salary issues cannot be ignored. Gay's contract is brutal. And Masai would not be able to do much in terms of changing the team. And if he wanted to re-sign Lowry, keeping Gay would make us a pretty heavy taxpayer team in that scenario.

    Then there are simple things. Gay was a huge black hole this season. It's like he'd never passed a ball before in his life. He doesn't get to the line as much as DeMar. And while DeMar's D is bad at times, he's actually been pretty consistent there this year. Rudy has always had a tendency to take not just possessions, but whole games off on D. He was a pylon some nights, just standing there, not moving his feet and not rotating.

    I'm not convinced the team would be any better. But then again, I was very opposed to acquiring Gay in the first place and have never really been a fan at all.

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    Quote white men can't jump wrote: View Post
    Salary issues cannot be ignored. Gay's contract is brutal. And Masai would not be able to do much in terms of changing the team. And if he wanted to re-sign Lowry, keeping Gay would make us a pretty heavy taxpayer team in that scenario.
    Well yea, salary can't be ignored if we're talking about the team long term. I guess my question was in regards to the team's performance the rest of the season.

    Regarding the whole passing/black hole thing, same could be said about DD prior to the post-rudy phase. Rudy's averaging an assist more on the kings while DD has also improved his passing. It just seems like that for whatever reason, DD and Rudy just couldn't play with one another. But on their own now, they're both doing a lot better on their respective teams. And so had Rudy been the one who stayed, we may have seen the same results on team performance.

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    Quote Pong wrote: View Post
    Well yea, salary can't be ignored if we're talking about the team long term. I guess my question was in regards to the team's performance the rest of the season.

    Regarding the whole passing/black hole thing, same could be said about DD prior to the post-rudy phase. Rudy's averaging an assist more on the kings while DD has also improved his passing. It just seems like that for whatever reason, DD and Rudy just couldn't play with one another. But on their own now, they're both doing a lot better on their respective teams. And so had Rudy been the one who stayed, we may have seen the same results on team performance.
    Except that Rudy is thriving as a second option to Cousins, who attracts lots of attention. Seeing Rudy Gay dribble into double teams was catastrophic in Toronto. DeMar has been a very good primary option on our team. I have trouble seeing Rudy play as well without the big body down low to attract attention.

    I think, at best, we'd be about the same with a bit of an older player on a worse contract, and lets not forget trading Rudy Gay also gave us a bench, which we might not have if he was still here and we traded DeMar instead, and has been a very big part of Toronto's success. So all told, I have a hard time seeing things playing out as well as they have if we kept Rudy instead.

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    I dunnoe what the teams record would have been with Rudy instead of DeMar. But when Rudy was here he couldn't do anything really No defense, No Shooting, No passing and he also could never dribble towards the hoop because he lost the ball or got stripped 90% of the time. At least DeMar is willing to pass and a much better team player then Rudy was

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    I don't think it would have gone well.

    A big part of Gay's Sacramento success is Cousins' presence.

    Raptors don't have anyone near the inside presence of Cousins' on offense.

    There is also the question of what would DeRozan returned versus Gay? Likely not much more due to the fact he was not playing well the first 18 games either. HOwever his potential was still there (versus Gay) and his contract was much less than Gay.
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    I don't think we would be doing as well. I think demar is more coachable and more likely to buy into the team game that we play now. And like others have mentioned, Rudy seems to work best with a dominant big man that can carry the bulk of the load. We don't have that, thus I think the black hole stigma would still stick.

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    Even in hindsight this is a difficult one to answer. Things could have ended up the same (or better as we'd have more length on defense) or it could have ended up far worse. His contract was a detriment to MU. It's hard to plan a team when you don't know if the guy is going to come back or not and he's a big chunk of the payroll.

    Personally I think it made far too much more sense to trade Gay over DD. Glad it worked out but even if it didn't the team would be in a better place going forward (ie, it would be easy to rebuild on the fly with DD and his contract over RG's and his).

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    Quote imanshumpert wrote: View Post
    It's kinda hard to tell. Would Gay buy into the team-oriented, swing-the-ball philosophy or not? If he did the team would probably be slightly better and Gay would've made the all-star team.
    I think the risk was that Gay would not buy into the team mindset. I got the impression that he felt he was 'the star' on our team, and he is working out better in Sacramento because there he doesn't feel he is 'the' star.

    Demar, although maybe not as good a defender, seems to have less of an ego and is more willing to buy into the 'pass the ball' mindset.

    By the way, full marks to Demar for the way he has increased his passing this season over previous seasons.

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    Raptors Republic Veteran Bendit's Avatar
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    I dont believe Rudy Gay has ever played efficiently and as option 1 on a team without a dominant big man. The season in Memphis just before he got his max contract Marc Gasol was coming into his own and helped with his numbers and then they got Randolph.

    The salary does matter in the trade...the four players coming to TO make up Gay's salary (approx)...what if 2Pat were not included in a DD trade? DD is also a much more coachable player I believe than Gay. Glad it worked out the way it did and the ramifications wont end for awhile (after more moves this summer at least).

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    Raptors Republic Superstar Rapstor4Life's Avatar
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    DeRozan>Gay end of thread. Ross wouldnt be enjoying much success with Gay here either.

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    Casey wouldn't somehow be getting coach of the year votes
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    Quote Rapstor4Life wrote: View Post
    DeRozan>Gay end of thread. Ross wouldnt be enjoying much success with Gay here either.
    What Rapstor4Life wrote...

    Gay was not a good fit here and many (myself included) was against acquiring him because we didnt think he would be much of an upgrade over DD. It turns out that DD is just a younger better player than Gay.

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    Raptors Republic Starter Just Is's Avatar
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    It wouldn't be better. The reason for the change to team ball after Gay left wasn't a result of a coaching philosophy change: Gay was literally Casey's offensive crutch. When Gay left, the game plan changed.

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    I think we would be in a significantly worse position. DeMar was the only reason Rudy wasn't taking 30 shots a game here.. he was his only leash.

    I also don't think Casey would be here next year if Rudy was still here.
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    pre-gay trade, I was adamant that either Gay or Derozan needed to be traded, but I didn't really believe it mattered which one, only which one was the better trade. I think I have to eat crow on that one.

    Since the Gay trade Raptors are probably top 5-6 in the league in win percentage, and have are firmly entrenched as the 3rd best team in the East. I don't think that happens if we had traded Derozan and Kept Gay. I think that had we kept Gay, we would have done poorly and Masai would have found a deal for Lowry. Gay would keep us entertained while we attempted to tank our way to a high draft pick... Which in the long might have been a better position...

    However, I think the OP scenario was one where you swap Gay for Derozan and keep the roster the same. In that scenario I don't think we are doing nearly as well as we are now. I'd argue we'd be in pretty much the same situation we've been in the last 3-4 years. A team constructed to make the playoffs but on the bubble. We'd probably still be above Detriot and in the playoff picture, I'd guess fighting Charlotte for the 6th spot... B A R F!!!
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