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Thread: How does this Raptors team stack up against VC's 00-01 team?

  1. #21
    Raptors Republic All-Star Letter N's Avatar
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    Quote MoPeteRules wrote: View Post
    Hold your horses, you say the current team has no sweet shooter or in your face kinda guy, how about Steve Novak and Tyler Hansbrough? I don't have much else to contribute to this conversation but I just couldn't believe you didn't find analogous players to Dell Curry and Charles Oakley on the current roster.
    But you'd have to be out of your mind to take Novak and Tyler over Curry and Oak*





    *even though Oak missed that damn gimme layup that would've given us the lead and we wouldn't have needed to rely on that awful last second miss by Vince in game 7................Ya I still mad!

  2. #22
    Raptors Republic Starter tonious35's Avatar
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    Quote Letter N wrote: View Post
    I have a hard time believing this team could beat the 01 team. This one has more depth and role players but that team just seems substantially better to me.
    Vince with ANTONIO (Brick Wall) Davis, CHARLES (F$#% YOU UP) OAKLEY, KEON (GUMBY) Clark, and Dell (AUTOMATIC) CURRY, and the Eastern Conference was at optimum strength (Indiana 8th, 41-41). This 2014 team would not stand a chance.

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  4. #23
    Raptors Republic Starter KeonClark's Avatar
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    Quote tonious35 wrote: View Post
    Vince with ANTONIO (Brick Wall) Davis, CHARLES (F$#% YOU UP) OAKLEY, KEON (GUMBY) Clark, and Dell (AUTOMATIC) CURRY, and the Eastern Conference was at optimum strength (Indiana 8th, 41-41). This 2014 team would not stand a chance.
    Disagree strongly. How could you list me and dell curry? Those were role players no better than s almons or handsbrough.

  5. #24
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    This year's raps would get more foul calls, I think.

    Alvin vs KLo matchup would be pretty interesting I think. Kyle might have a slight advantage due to talent and speed.

    DD vs Carter? Really similar playing styles, but Carter is just slightly better at everything than DD.

    MoPete vs TRoss would give the edge to TRoss, though it's fairly even.

    Oakley vs Amir? Amir.

    Antonio vs JV? Antonio.

    '14 bench over '01 bench, being much more versatile and deep.

    I would also give Casey the edge as a better coach.

    The '14 raps would win in 7. This team passes the ball a lot better and has more youthful energy. '01 raps have more experience and grit, which is key in a playoff series. I think the new raps would prevail mostly because of better team defense. They'd also beat the 76ers, too.

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    Raptors Republic Superstar iblastoff's Avatar
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    Sorry what? VC slightly better than DD? VC prime was WAY better than DD.

  7. #26
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    Quote iblastoff wrote: View Post
    Sorry what? VC slightly better than DD? VC prime was WAY better than DD.
    Even '01 VC compared to '14 DD? DD's got five years of xp versus VC's two.

  8. #27
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    Quote webfeat wrote: View Post
    Even '01 VC compared to '14 DD? DD's got five years of xp versus VC's two.
    Yes, Vince was a legit superstar and he would be today.

    Lowry is far ahead of Alvin or Chris Childs, though. Especially this year, considering how freakishly healthy (by Lowry's standards) he's been. So I think it's debatable which backcourt is better.
    Last edited by BobLoblaw; Fri Mar 14th, 2014 at 08:34 PM.

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  10. #28
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    Quote Letter N wrote: View Post
    I have a hard time believing this team could beat the 01 team. This one has more depth and role players but that team just seems substantially better to me.
    Yeah but they lost to Philly. All that matters is what happens in playoffs period.

  11. #29
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    Quote webfeat wrote: View Post
    Even '01 VC compared to '14 DD? DD's got five years of xp versus VC's two.
    VC was far more talented at that point in his career. DD has developed incrementally. VC just exploded re his development.

  12. #30
    Raptors Republic Starter bryan colangelo's Avatar
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    Quote Nilanka wrote: View Post
    Novak isn't really part of the rotation, and Psycho T doesn't have the "been there, done that" credibility that Oakley provided.
    I seem to remember Dell Curry moving much better off the ball than Novak or Salmons. He was a liability on defense but also incredibly consistent. Even though Salmons is probably better overall defensively there is no way Dell Curry would have choked on an open three the way Salmons did at the end of of the Brooklyn game.

    Tyler is younger and more athletic than the old-man Oakley that played on the Raptors, but Tyler is more of a high energy pest that baits fouls, while Oakley was an ENFORCER. You're undervaluing and forgetting the fact that even in the latter part of his career, most NBA players were terrified of Oakley. He was like the real-life incarnation of the badass Mr. T pretended to be, an anti-athlete than would set bone-rattling picks and illegal screens that only Garnett gets way with these days.

    Tyler is a great regular season player off the bench, but in a playoff series against the Heat or Indiana I would definitely prefer players like Oakley and Curry than Hansborough, Novak or Salmons off the bench.

    But in if we're talking starters, I prefer the combination of Jonas and Amir over Antonio Davis and Oakley (assuming I can't bring Oakley off the bench). Vince Prime was at a whole other level than Current-Demar, but Lowry is definitely better than Alvin was (and I love Alvin).

    Peterson was the starting SF in 2000, right?

    My fantasy roster if I had to swap guys, one-for-one (not trading bench players for starters)

    Starters:
    Jonas
    Amir
    Ross
    Carter
    Lowry

    Bench:
    Childs
    Curry
    Patterson
    J.Williams/Hansborough
    Last edited by bryan colangelo; Sat Mar 15th, 2014 at 01:35 AM.

  13. #31
    Raptors Republic All-Star ezz_bee's Avatar
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    It's tough... I think 2001 wins on talent, but 2014 raps are a more focused team. If Vince Carter goes to his graduation the day of game 7 then I think 2014 Raps win it. Otherwise I go with 2001 Raps.
    "We only have one rule on this team. What is that rule? E.L.E. That's right's, E.L.E, and what does E.L.E. stand for? EVERYBODY LOVE EVERYBODY. Right there up on the wall, because this isn't just a basketball team, this is a lifestyle. ~ Jackie Moon

  14. #32
    Raptors Republic All-Star JawsGT's Avatar
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    Quote MoPeteRules wrote: View Post

    Hold your horses, you say the current team has no sweet shooter or in your face kinda guy, how about Steve Novak and Tyler Hansbrough? I don't have much else to contribute to this conversation but I just couldn't believe you didn't find analogous players to Dell Curry and Charles Oakley on the current roster.
    Good point. However, Novak is sort of an afterthought with the current roster, and we really don't utilize him very well. Curry was a much more important part of that 00-01 team. And Oak and Tyler aren't even close, but I guess they are somewhat similar players.

  15. #33
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    Quote psrs1 wrote: View Post
    Yeah but they lost to Philly. All that matters is what happens in playoffs period.
    Exactly. And this team hasn't beaten anyone in the playoffs.

  16. #34
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    this team could take over the mantle depending if they hit the 50+ wins mark and depending how the playoff run goes, no doubt at this point the expectation is make it to the 2nd round and be competitive. But for now the 00-01 Raptors still hold the title for best raps team ever, they had a bona-fide Superstar in Carter surrounded by the type of veterans thats today's era of basketball would only join a contender. (Antonio Davis, Kevin Willis, Charles Oakley, Mark Jackson, Mugsy Bogues, Dell Curry) these guys were some of the big names of there day. Add on great role players like Mo-Pete, Alvin Williams, Keon Clark, JYD and that was a dangerous team in an competitive conference that was on the verge on being a true contender.

  17. #35
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    Also, I think people are forgetting how good Keon Clark was back then. Starting the year after he kinda faded off into oblivion due to personal issues but in '01 I remember him as one of the best offensive options off of the bench(He would face up and shoot keeping the ball high above his head, or use his athletisicm to drive). He had crazy athletisicm and could get the team/crowd going with big dunks or big blocks. There were times where I wondered if Keon would eventually rise to star ranks back then(maybe that seems crazy looking at his career in retrospect but back in '01 he was our 2nd best scoring option, and when he was on it felt like he could score at will kinda like Bosh would for awhile there). For me Keon in '01 > Pat Pat '14.

  18. #36
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    Quote CGarbs wrote: View Post
    Also, I think people are forgetting how good Keon Clark was back then. Starting the year after he kinda faded off into oblivion due to personal issues but in '01 I remember him as one of the best offensive options off of the bench(He would face up and shoot keeping the ball high above his head, or use his athletisicm to drive). He had crazy athletisicm and could get the team/crowd going with big dunks or big blocks. There were times where I wondered if Keon would eventually rise to star ranks back then(maybe that seems crazy looking at his career in retrospect but back in '01 he was our 2nd best scoring option, and when he was on it felt like he could score at will kinda like Bosh would for awhile there). For me Keon in '01 > Pat Pat '14.
    It's all about what you do in playoffs. 2PAT has had a few not so great games but overall has been good. Will see come playoff time.

  19. #37
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    I really like 2Pat but he doesn't have as much impact on the game as Keon did then. How I would break down the rosters:

    Starters

    Davis > JV(althought I always felt like Davis' offence was forced, definitely way more upside with JV on both offence and defence as Davis was a workhorse but also undersized)
    Oakley < Amir(Oakley was an enforcer but was pretty much only an occasional 15 ft jump shooter/garbage man on offence. Amir brings so much more to the table offensively and has no less an impact on D)
    Mo Pete = Tross
    Vince > DD (Not even close. Vince was deadly on offence from everywhere and could score at will at times. both were "meh" on D. Vince was top 5 in the league in '01, DD isn't even in that convo).
    Alvin < Lowry (both bulldogs on D but Lowry is such an upgrade on Offence as well as a distributer).

    Bench

    2 Pat < Keon (see comments above)
    Salmons < Curry(this one is close as one makes an impact on D and the other on O. The difference for me is that Curry had a super quick release and was also automatic giving the Raps a legit consistent offensive weapon off the bench)
    JYD = TH (both hustle guys that could give you a decent boost here or there but ultimately not an important piece)
    Childs = GV (both solid backups, Childs stronger defensively, GV better offensively....did I just type that?)

    Looking at this comparison a couple things standout:

    1) From an Offensive standpoint the '01 team is significantly better. They were a "scary" team because of all those weapons(Much like how people look at GS and other West teams that have the firepower).

    2) From a Defensive standpoint I give the nod to the '14 team. Too many question marks on the defensive side for that '01 team(AD undersized, VC soft, Curry a liability, even Alvin who would work hard was a little flat footed against quicker guards).

    I think when we think of "best team ever" many peoples minds think in terms of offence(I know I do). I wonder if the '14 teams D makes up for its lesser O when compared to that '01 team?

    Like other posters have said, ultimately how this team does in the playoffs will decide it.

    As an aside, if we resign Lowry I think this team next year will definitely have a shot at "best ever" if they are short of it this year.
    Further development of JV and Ross + playoff experience will make a big difference!(much like it did for that '01 team!).

  20. #38
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    You can't compare guys indivitually and decide from there which was the better team.
    This team is better as a cohesive unit than the 01 team.

    Defensively, I think Ross, who would guard VC, would give him a hard time for sure. Ross shut down Paul George, Irving (once) and VC is the kind of swingman that Ross has the most success guarding

    Plus, this Raptors team has plenty of shot creators on offense. DD, Ross, Lowry, even 2-Pat.
    Lowry brings a whole new passing element to the game that Alvin simply doesn't.

    But the real x-factor is Pattrcik Patterson: a legit stretch four that can bang inside, hit the mid-range shot, or shoot a 3 every now and then.

    There are plenty of teams that are good on offense. But in a close game like this one, the Raptors defensive tenacity would set the tone, and would power them over the 01 Raptors for the win in a nail biter.

    Ross can shut down VC.
    But who's gonna stop Lowry and DD?

  21. #39
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    By no means World beaters but this team is a dream come true for me. As an NBA fan, I always envied teams that took the court as teams with solid reputations and had a definite chance to win. I wondered if the Raptors would ever be such a team. I can't believe it but the present team is proving to be one such team. A team that an opponent can't take for granted.

    Their success is a dream come true and I hope it's not short lived.
    Attitude Is A Choice.

  22. #40
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    Quote 2kfeen wrote: View Post
    You can't compare guys indivitually and decide from there which was the better team.
    This team is better as a cohesive unit than the 01 team.

    Defensively, I think Ross, who would guard VC, would give him a hard time for sure. Ross shut down Paul George, Irving (once) and VC is the kind of swingman that Ross has the most success guarding

    Plus, this Raptors team has plenty of shot creators on offense. DD, Ross, Lowry, even 2-Pat.
    Lowry brings a whole new passing element to the game that Alvin simply doesn't.

    But the real x-factor is Pattrcik Patterson: a legit stretch four that can bang inside, hit the mid-range shot, or shoot a 3 every now and then.

    There are plenty of teams that are good on offense. But in a close game like this one, the Raptors defensive tenacity would set the tone, and would power them over the 01 Raptors for the win in a nail biter.

    Ross can shut down VC.
    But who's gonna stop Lowry and DD?
    Rossanity! No. Come on. Vince played some great defensive teams, better than the current Raptors. Those 2001 76ers were one of the best defenses in the league, that's handcheck era, and Vince still averaged 30-6-6 with great efficiency.

    Terrence Ross is ok but that's a bit too much. Might as well say that Ross would shut down Michael Jordan.

    Vince was twice an offensive player compared to current Paul George. Paul George seems to shut himself down half the time.

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