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Thread: TROSS or Demar

  1. #21
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    Quote Ambidextrious wrote: View Post
    Let me play devils advocate here and ask what Ross' value will be as a first option getting 35+mpg and at least 15 shots a night consistently
    With his current skillset or long term into the future? Right now his efficiency would plummet down the drain if they tried that. Look at what happened to Jeff Green this season. There's a big difference between playing off other people and being the main guy and the focus of defenses.

  2. #22
    Raptors Republic All-Star Letter N's Avatar
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    I would love if we can flip Derozan for a 3 of equal talent and let Ross take over the 2 guard position for the future.

    I like Derozan but I just don't see his style of play leading to playoff success, I think with a good to great defender you can shut him down if that's your focus. Ross' game seems like it fits today's NBA much better especially with his range and his defense is amazing for a guy in his 2nd year.

  3. #23
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    Quote Abbas wrote: View Post
    okay so i was just wondering who do u guys think will be better in there prime and also who would you NOT want to trade

    Keep in mind
    Demar's Age is 24 years, 220 days as of today
    & TRoss is age is 23 years, 38 days as of today

    It's no secret that when demar was in his second year he had better stats then Tross and also when demar was 23 (last year) he had better stats then TROSS at the age of 23 (this year)

    I think in there prime Demar will be a better player then TRoss but not by a lot

    Also if we were to trade one of them what do you guys think we can get for them
    I didn't even read the post but my answer is TROSS

  4. #24
    Raptors Republic All-Star OldSkoolCool's Avatar
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    Quote Letter N wrote: View Post
    I would love if we can flip Derozan for a 3 of equal talent and let Ross take over the 2 guard position for the future.

    I like Derozan but I just don't see his style of play leading to playoff success, I think with a good to great defender you can shut him down if that's your focus. Ross' game seems like it fits today's NBA much better especially with his range and his defense is amazing for a guy in his 2nd year.
    I'm of this opinion as well

  5. #25
    Raptors Republic Rookie vino's Avatar
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    Personally, I do not think this team will be able to contend with DeRozan as its starting SG. Yes, he has improved and he is an overall positive on this team right now but going forward, for me he's got the Rudy Gay effect - remove him and distribute his shots among the other, more efficient players, and the net result is a better team. I don't buy this "he is the top option and drawing the best opposing wing defender and Ross, or anybody else, would struggle if DD isn't there". Again, this is a personal opinion looking into the future, so there is not "right" or "wrong". I feel that if we add a quality SF, a 6'7'' or 6'8'' defender ala Leonard or even same Tucker, who closed down DD - and someone like that could be relatively cheap, this team will be better. Of course, it is going to take another step for Ross and Val (and 2PAt for that matter)...

  6. #26
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    Why Raptor fans always fall in love with possible potentials vs the reality ?

    Reality is DD is a good 3rd option in a good team now. Reality is Ross right now is not there and may never get there. He has not shown anything to suggest that he WILL be better than DD !!! NOTHING ....

    Same goes with Big Val and for god sake 2 PAT !!!! It is all speculation.

    Now, if we want to trade DD for an established STAR in this league, then go ahead. I have no problem with that. But if we think Ross is making DD redundant or ... then my friends, you are dreaming.

  7. #27
    Raptors Republic Starter OptimalOptimist's Avatar
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    Why not both?

    Both are tremendous young players with different skillset on cheap contracts.

    I also think that both are learning from one another, as Demar as cut some long-twos attempts for 3s in the corner. He is also improving his defense. He isn't the pillar he used to be vs shorter and quicker guards, plays the passing lanes and get more deflections/steals as a result, and seems to be better as a team defender (ex: the late game play vs the cavaliers and Zeller)

    Ross is improving his overall decision making, his in-game rythym as he oftens knock a couple of shots in a row, and his reads on the offensive end as he is developping a game of the dribble.

    The fact that both go at one another in pratice is also a tremendous way of devloppement.

  8. #28
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    Quote Abbas wrote: View Post
    It's no secret that when demar was in his second year he had better stats then Tross and also when demar was 23 (last year) he had better stats then TROSS at the age of 23 (this year)
    Secret? Try lie.

    Stat | DD 2nd year | DD 23 years old | Ross this year
    TS%: .530 | .523 | .565
    ORTG: 106 | 105 | 108
    DRTG: 115 | 110 | 106
    WS/48: .055 | .075 | .104

    Ross is way better than any DD season until this one. Comparison also conveniently ignores DD's horriawful 3rd season.

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  10. #29
    Raptors Republic Hall of Famer mcHAPPY's Avatar
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    Quote DanH wrote: View Post
    Secret? Try lie.

    Stat | DD 2nd year | DD 23 years old | Ross this year
    TS%: .530 | .523 | .565
    ORTG: 106 | 105 | 108
    DRTG: 115 | 110 | 106
    WS/48: .055 | .075 | .104

    Ross is way better than any DD season until this one. Comparison also conveniently ignores DD's horriawful 3rd season.
    Prepare yourself.

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  12. #30
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    Tross should be our 2 while DD plays the 3. The only reason DD's at the 2 is because he can't really defend opposing 3s. If only he can get a tad stronger or bulk up a bit more and improve his defence, he would make a great 3. He's managed to improve his offence every year so it's not too late for him to hone his defence.

    And i'm a bit disappointed with the lack of post play from DD. I know that we're playing less isoball but it's like his post game has disappeared.

  13. #31
    Raptors Republic Rookie vino's Avatar
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    Quote Jamshid wrote: View Post
    Why Raptor fans always fall in love with possible potentials vs the reality ?

    Reality is DD is a good 3rd option in a good team now. Reality is Ross right now is not there and may never get there. He has not shown anything to suggest that he WILL be better than DD !!! NOTHING ....

    Same goes with Big Val and for god sake 2 PAT !!!! It is all speculation.

    Now, if we want to trade DD for an established STAR in this league, then go ahead. I have no problem with that. But if we think Ross is making DD redundant or ... then my friends, you are dreaming.
    Of course it is speculation; I've said it's my opinion, a very subjective one. As for realities - yes we are in the 3rd but we wouldn't make playoffs in the West and for me this is not enough. The team has to improve and on a contending team, as I've said in the beginning, I do not see DD as a starting SG (or SF for that matter). We need a lock down D man who can guard the likes of Lebron, George, Melo, Durant... etc. Mind you, not shut them down, but at least make them earn it. Until we have someone like that on the roster, we are not getting out of the first round. Who better to haul us a piece like that (except draft) and who could this new asset easily replace in the starting unit? Right....

    Quote Pong wrote: View Post
    Tross should be our 2 while DD plays the 3. The only reason DD's at the 2 is because he can't really defend opposing 3s. If only he can get a tad stronger or bulk up a bit more and improve his defence, he would make a great 3. He's managed to improve his offence every year so it's not too late for him to hone his defence.

    And i'm a bit disappointed with the lack of post play from DD. I know that we're playing less isoball but it's like his post game has disappeared.
    2 or 3 - does not matter. DD is still inefficient and average at best on D. We need better if we are to really build a contender and not a pretender here.

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  15. #32
    Raptors Republic All-Star BigCamB's Avatar
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    You certainly can't give up Ross, unless it's for something freaking amazing that's all I say. Elite 3 and D skills are just so valuable and it's easy to blend him into any lineup.

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  17. #33
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    Quote vino wrote: View Post
    2 or 3 - does not matter. DD is still inefficient and average at best on D. We need better if we are to really build a contender and not a pretender here.
    Oh yea, I'm definitely on board if we can trade DD for a versatile 3 since i much rather prefer Ross as our 2. Portland would never do it, but a Batum/DD swap would be amazing. The salaries for a simple swap works, BUT obviously portland will never do that.
    Last edited by Pong; Mon Mar 17th, 2014 at 02:07 PM.

  18. #34
    Raptors Republic Superstar planetmars's Avatar
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    Ross probably has more potential but I also like his game more so I'm biased. I wish he had the work ethic that DD had but that's asking a lot since most guys in the league don't have DD's work ethic and a lot of them are still really good (I mean neither Vince or T-Mac were labeled as gym rats and they carved out pretty good careers for themselves).

    I have no objection to trading DD. But can't just give him away either.. need to get something of quality (all-star caliber or loads of potential back). Wonder if Orlando would consider giving up Harris for him? Harris+Afflalo for DeRozan works

  19. #35
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    Quote Abbas wrote: View Post
    are u kidding me u just said Tross easily, I like him but DeRozan is basically better then him in everything but Defense and 3 point shooting

    Deamar is also a All-star at the age of 24, do u think TRoss will be a All-star next year?
    I see atleast 3-4 more all-star games for Deamar and I think TRoss will be very lucky to get 2-3

    I see Demar averaging around 25-27pts/4-6a & 5r with a PER of somewhere around 19-22 in his prime
    and i see TRoss averaging around 20-22pts/2-4/6r with a PER of somewhere around 17-20 in his prime
    You, my friend, are reeeeaaaally ambitious!!

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  21. #36
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    Quote OldSkoolCool wrote: View Post
    Ross is a better passer and ball handler than DD. At least at the respective points in their careers.

    I would say Ross is one of our better pick and roll guards on the team....he is fantastic at attacking with the dribble and hitting the roller closer to the basket than DD has ever shown. He is a better shooter, athlete, defender. I would say he is already more rounded than DD is so when Ross hits his prime, I have no doubt that he is going to be the better player.



    The OP referred to who will be better "in their prime"
    Dude no he isn't. There isn't any metric you can use to show that either. I wish I could find the graphic, but DeRozan is the second most efficient guard in PPP on the pick and roll after Goran Dragic. This would probably indicate that he's good at handling the ball and passing, but maybe I'm wrong. He also has a very high assist rate to turnover rate despite his high usage. I'm not sure how Ross is better at all.

  22. #37
    Raptors Republic Superstar iblastoff's Avatar
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    Quote imanshumpert wrote: View Post
    Dude no he isn't. There isn't any metric you can use to show that either. I wish I could find the graphic, but DeRozan is the second most efficient guard in PPP on the pick and roll after Goran Dragic. This would probably indicate that he's good at handling the ball and passing, but maybe I'm wrong. He also has a very high assist rate to turnover rate despite his high usage. I'm not sure how Ross is better at all.
    http://hangtime.blogs.nba.com/2014/0...ikes-the-suns/

    "DeRozanís numbers seem a little fluky. Heís shot just 41 percent out of pick-and-rolls, has recorded an assist on just 5.8 percent those 690 possessions (the fourth lowest rate of the group), and averages less than one secondary assist (where his pass directly leads to somebody elseís assist) per game. But he has drawn fouls on 9.4 percent of his pick-and-roll possessions, a rate on par with that of LeBron James."

    so nope. not good at handling/passing. really good at getting to the line.

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  24. #38
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    Quote DanH wrote: View Post
    Secret? Try lie.

    Stat | DD 2nd year | DD 23 years old | Ross this year
    TS%: .530 | .523 | .565
    ORTG: 106 | 105 | 108
    DRTG: 115 | 110 | 106
    WS/48: .055 | .075 | .104

    Ross is way better than any DD season until this one. Comparison also conveniently ignores DD's horriawful 3rd season.
    Bit of context is necessary here.

    Ross' oRTG and dRTG are really good because he's on a very good team (something that was not even close to the case for DeMar until this year). Win shares are going to be above average as a result of that combined with the fact that he gets quite a lot of minutes on a good team.

    He's definitely more efficient, but let's not forget that he's a 3rd/4th option, while DeRozan was a 1st/2nd. More volume and larger offensive role usually leads to lower efficiency unless you're talking about superstar players.

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  26. #39
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    kk how the hell do i delete this thread

  27. #40
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    Quote Abbas wrote: View Post

    I see Demar averaging around 25-27pts/4-6a & 5r with a PER of somewhere around 19-22 in his prime
    Even on the low end of your estimates, look what company demar would need to be in. Lebron, KD and Love > DeMar


    http://www.basketball-reference.com/...t=&order_by=ws

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