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Thread: TROSS or Demar

  1. #41
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    Quote Hennessy wrote: View Post
    Even on the low end of your estimates, look what company demar would need to be in. Lebron, KD and Love > DeMar


    http://www.basketball-reference.com/...t=&order_by=ws
    He's not for from those stats tho, if he keeps improving like he does every year don't be surprised if he gets those

  2. #42
    Raptors Republic Starter YoungGunRaptor's Avatar
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    This is how I feel.

    14 years ago, we had two magnificent young gun wing players on our team, whose names were Vince Carter and Tracy Mcgrady. One was a 23 or so year old all star, the other a 21 or so year old role player who was an absolute beast on the defensive end. Obviously in the years since 2000, both have gone on to have legendary careers.

    But during that one magical year, the Raptors went to the playoffs for the first time, and despite getting taken down by a gritty New York team, things were looking good in Raptor land. That offseason, T Mac left, seeking glitz and glamor. The Raptors, led by Vince Carter and a host of gritty vets, made it to within 2 seconds of going to the ECF in the 2001 playoffs.

    Now imagine if T Mac had stayed. There is no question that the Raptors would have overcome Allen Iverson's 76ers. Kobe Bryant himself said that had VC and T Mac stayed together, the Raptors would have been title contenders for several years.

    DD And 3Ross have the potential to do the same. Demar's game compliments T Ross's long range shooting. Ross has the same elite level defensive potential that T Mac had, and even then Ross is showing the signs of becoming an elite level 3 point shooter. No, they will probably not become multiple all stars, but the fact that we can say potentially speaks volumes. So why not see what this dynamic duo can do? (Alongside Kyle Lowry, the diamond stud of this team).

    Demar is the all star, the captain, the one that the league is glorifying. Yet this same guy is a team player. He has been abysmal shooting as of late, but there's no denying his leadership and intensity. DD was the one that cooled down Green after his shooting barrage on Sunday with a couple of great steals. He himself struggled, but I saw fire.


    Lets not forget, we were supposed to be a mediocre tanking team this year. Instead, we are 8 games behind the Miami Heat. Explanations/excuses aside, we have still won 37 games and have the potential to set the franchise record for games won in a season.

    Who cares if we win or lose in the playoffs this year. We will win because our boys will get some experience in springtime basketball.
    “You can sink and drown, or you can float, and we out here like Michael Phelps."


    Demar Derozan

  3. #43
    Raptors Republic Starter Ambidextrious's Avatar
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    Quote DanH wrote: View Post
    Secret? Try lie.

    Stat | DD 2nd year | DD 23 years old | Ross this year
    TS%: .530 | .523 | .565
    ORTG: 106 | 105 | 108
    DRTG: 115 | 110 | 106
    WS/48: .055 | .075 | .104

    Ross is way better than any DD season until this one. Comparison also conveniently ignores DD's horriawful 3rd season.
    Good post I'm pleased to have both players but we need to feature Terrenece and Val more in the offence.
    We all make mistakes... Tanking is not the answer.. This squad can ball! Let it roll!!

  4. #44
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    Quote YoungGunRaptor wrote: View Post
    This is how I feel.

    14 years ago, we had two magnificent young gun wing players on our team, whose names were Vince Carter and Tracy Mcgrady. One was a 23 or so year old all star, the other a 21 or so year old role player who was an absolute beast on the defensive end. Obviously in the years since 2000, both have gone on to have legendary careers.

    But during that one magical year, the Raptors went to the playoffs for the first time, and despite getting taken down by a gritty New York team, things were looking good in Raptor land. That offseason, T Mac left, seeking glitz and glamor. The Raptors, led by Vince Carter and a host of gritty vets, made it to within 2 seconds of going to the ECF in the 2001 playoffs.

    Now imagine if T Mac had stayed. There is no question that the Raptors would have overcome Allen Iverson's 76ers. Kobe Bryant himself said that had VC and T Mac stayed together, the Raptors would have been title contenders for several years.

    DD And 3Ross have the potential to do the same. Demar's game compliments T Ross's long range shooting. Ross has the same elite level defensive potential that T Mac had, and even then Ross is showing the signs of becoming an elite level 3 point shooter. No, they will probably not become multiple all stars, but the fact that we can say potentially speaks volumes. So why not see what this dynamic duo can do? (Alongside Kyle Lowry, the diamond stud of this team).

    Demar is the all star, the captain, the one that the league is glorifying. Yet this same guy is a team player. He has been abysmal shooting as of late, but there's no denying his leadership and intensity. DD was the one that cooled down Green after his shooting barrage on Sunday with a couple of great steals. He himself struggled, but I saw fire.


    Lets not forget, we were supposed to be a mediocre tanking team this year. Instead, we are 8 games behind the Miami Heat. Explanations/excuses aside, we have still won 37 games and have the potential to set the franchise record for games won in a season.

    Who cares if we win or lose in the playoffs this year. We will win because our boys will get some experience in springtime basketball.
    Couldn't have said it better myself. People are too quick to make an either or conversation. Why does one have to go for the other to shine? It's not like the Rudy and Demar situation where they didn't compliment each others games. Terrence compliments Demar perfectly. If Terrence has more potential than Demar we should be ecstatic! That would mean we have another potential AllStar on our team. Why argue about them when they are both on our team and are both playing well. Casey will gain trust in Terrence more and more as the years go on if he's even still the coach. Terrence will have his chance don't worry.

  5. #45
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    Quote younggunraptor wrote: View Post
    this is how i feel.

    14 years ago, we had two magnificent young gun wing players on our team, whose names were vince carter and tracy mcgrady. One was a 23 or so year old all star, the other a 21 or so year old role player who was an absolute beast on the defensive end. Obviously in the years since 2000, both have gone on to have legendary careers.

    But during that one magical year, the raptors went to the playoffs for the first time, and despite getting taken down by a gritty new york team, things were looking good in raptor land. That offseason, t mac left, seeking glitz and glamor. The raptors, led by vince carter and a host of gritty vets, made it to within 2 seconds of going to the ecf in the 2001 playoffs.

    Now imagine if t mac had stayed. There is no question that the raptors would have overcome allen iverson's 76ers. Kobe bryant himself said that had vc and t mac stayed together, the raptors would have been title contenders for several years.

    Dd and 3ross have the potential to do the same. Demar's game compliments t ross's long range shooting. Ross has the same elite level defensive potential that t mac had, and even then ross is showing the signs of becoming an elite level 3 point shooter. No, they will probably not become multiple all stars, but the fact that we can say potentially speaks volumes. So why not see what this dynamic duo can do? (alongside kyle lowry, the diamond stud of this team).

    Demar is the all star, the captain, the one that the league is glorifying. Yet this same guy is a team player. He has been abysmal shooting as of late, but there's no denying his leadership and intensity. Dd was the one that cooled down green after his shooting barrage on sunday with a couple of great steals. He himself struggled, but i saw fire.


    Lets not forget, we were supposed to be a mediocre tanking team this year. Instead, we are 8 games behind the miami heat. Explanations/excuses aside, we have still won 37 games and have the potential to set the franchise record for games won in a season.

    Who cares if we win or lose in the playoffs this year. We will win because our boys will get some experience in springtime basketball.

    this^^^^^

  6. #46
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    I'm sorry to be the bearer of bad news but Demar and Ross do not equal T-Mac and Vince.

  7. #47
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    Quote imanshumpert wrote: View Post
    Bit of context is necessary here.

    Ross' oRTG and dRTG are really good because he's on a very good team (something that was not even close to the case for DeMar until this year). Win shares are going to be above average as a result of that combined with the fact that he gets quite a lot of minutes on a good team.

    He's definitely more efficient, but let's not forget that he's a 3rd/4th option, while DeRozan was a 1st/2nd. More volume and larger offensive role usually leads to lower efficiency unless you're talking about superstar players.
    DD was a third (or lower) option his first year, and never got close to those efficiency numbers.

    I was quoting his individual ORTG and DRTG, which are much less effected by team impacts than on-court ORTG and DRTG (although admittedly there is still an impact, especially for DRTG). Of course, everyone on the team must have good ORTG's and DRTG's then, right? That's why Lowry has an ORTG of 119 and Vasquez has one of 101. Why Patterson has an ORTG of 115 and Salmons has one of 100. And yes, note that the DRTG's are much less spread out, but there's still big differences (107 for Vasquez, 106 for DD versus 102 for PPat, 101 for Hayes).

    In the meantime, they have almost identical ORTG and DRTG this year (on the same team), the year where DD made a HUGE leap, and Ross' sophomore year.

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  9. #48
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    Quote Letter N wrote: View Post
    I'm sorry to be the bearer of bad news but Demar and Ross do not equal T-Mac and Vince.
    While he did say the POTENTIAL to become like the T-Mac/VC pairing, I have to agree with this. As much as i like DD and Ross, they likely won't ever get to their level. VC and T-Mac were offensive wizards, who had great ball handling, playmaking and shooting ability. And not to mention they were both clutch and had that superstar swag. VC and T-Mac were athletic freaks compared to DD and Ross. The reason T-Mac was such a great defender was because of his crazy wingspan (something like 7 feet plus) while Ross' wingspan is pretty average (about the same as his height). Last but not least, T-Mac is a legit SF while Ross is put there due to circumstances.

    But anywho..... I think the point some people are making here is that while Ross and DD have been good, can you build an actual contender with them?

  10. #49
    Raptors Republic All-Star Mediumcore's Avatar
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    Really not fair to compare DD or Ross with VC or T-Mac for that matter. The talent gap is just too far. It's like the difference between a franchise player and an All Star reserve.

  11. #50
    Raptors Republic Rookie vino's Avatar
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    Quote GLF wrote: View Post
    Couldn't have said it better myself. People are too quick to make an either or conversation. Why does one have to go for the other to shine? It's not like the Rudy and Demar situation where they didn't compliment each others games. Terrence compliments Demar perfectly. If Terrence has more potential than Demar we should be ecstatic! That would mean we have another potential AllStar on our team. Why argue about them when they are both on our team and are both playing well. Casey will gain trust in Terrence more and more as the years go on if he's even still the coach. Terrence will have his chance don't worry.
    One does not HAVE to go; I'd be ok with DD being our 6th man - a microwave type Jamal Crawford analog (assuming we got this solid, young, defensively oriented SF to start) but... not at 9.5 million per. I think we could find a cheaper option for that. And again, DD does not HAVE to go... but how do you increase the overall talent level on a team without sacrificing something? and isn't his newly acquired all-star status help us in that regard? So why not cash in?

  12. #51
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    Quote vino wrote: View Post
    One does not HAVE to go; I'd be ok with DD being our 6th man - a microwave type Jamal Crawford analog (assuming we got this solid, young, defensively oriented SF to start) but... not at 9.5 million per. I think we could find a cheaper option for that. And again, DD does not HAVE to go... but how do you increase the overall talent level on a team without sacrificing something? and isn't his newly acquired all-star status help us in that regard? So why not cash in?
    You really think you can get an All Star calibre player for less than 9.5 million? Where have you been? The only All Star this year that made less money than DD was Millsap. If you just want any player and it doesn't have to be an All Star then I guess you're right. But I do hear you with the whole we have to trade something good to get something good. I don't know if it necessarily has to be DD but yea.

  13. #52
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    Even though it's great DD became an all star it comes with a lot of caveats this season. If he wants to cement himself as an all star for years to come it starts with his performance in the play offs.

    Also as I've said before DD is not going to be a 6th man.

    TR will be a closer in this league. Combine that with his excellent 3 point shooting, better than average defence (and still improving) flashes of dribble penetration and passing skills and this kids got a chance to be something special. DD is a gym rat and (from a guy that's never been anywhere near the team) I hope that TR is learning the work ethic from him. His improvement this year suggest he has.

    I don't think it has to be DD or TR. I like TR and DD but I don't know how well it works without KL. He's the cornerstone of this team. What he does will drastically affect what MU does going forward.

    Of course chances are that I'm completely wrong.

  14. #53
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    Quote Uncle_Si wrote: View Post
    Even though it's great DD became an all star it comes with a lot of caveats this season. If he wants to cement himself as an all star for years to come it starts with his performance in the play offs.

    Also as I've said before DD is not going to be a 6th man.

    TR will be a closer in this league. Combine that with his excellent 3 point shooting, better than average defence (and still improving) flashes of dribble penetration and passing skills and this kids got a chance to be something special. DD is a gym rat and (from a guy that's never been anywhere near the team) I hope that TR is learning the work ethic from him. His improvement this year suggest he has.

    I don't think it has to be DD or TR. I like TR and DD but I don't know how well it works without KL. He's the cornerstone of this team. What he does will drastically affect what MU does going forward.

    Of course chances are that I'm completely wrong.
    Regarding the bold, I was thinking along the same lines. In terms of Ross' development, nothing but good can come from seeing DeRozan's work ethic on a daily basis.
    "I don't lie. I willfully participate in a campaign of misinformation." - Fox Mulder

  15. #54
    Raptors Republic Starter YoungGunRaptor's Avatar
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    Quote Letter N wrote: View Post
    I'm sorry to be the bearer of bad news but Demar and Ross do not equal T-Mac and Vince.
    As I said, neither do I. Its not news. But they have potential to become two fearsome wing players JUST LIKE VC and TMac had.

    Quote Mediumcore wrote: View Post
    Really not fair to compare DD or Ross with VC or T-Mac for that matter. The talent gap is just too far. It's like the difference between a franchise player and an All Star reserve.


    Why is it not fair? Talent aside, they definitely have the chance to co exist. I too do not think Derozan is a franchise player, but its no secret that the Raptors are going to be going after a big name Free Agent in the next 2 years. I love T Ross, but he is far away from Derozan on the development scale.

    One thing that I know for sure, is the fact that the SG position is the weakest position in the league talent-wise, and the Raptors are holding onto the second best (scoring wise) SG in the league, second to James Harden. This, combined with his absolute steal of a contract, gives Demar the opportunity to be a wonderful 2nd option to our to-be franchise player (Durant? Love?)

    T Ross can stay, and can either become our 6th man or remain a starter depending on the types of acquisitions Masai makes.
    Last edited by YoungGunRaptor; Tue Mar 18th, 2014 at 06:41 PM.
    “You can sink and drown, or you can float, and we out here like Michael Phelps."


    Demar Derozan

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