KD what the Raptors need: Kelly

[white men can't jump]

Inferiority complex? Not at all. You can attract players to play for you when your team is good and you are a consistent winner.

People cite Durrant's 'fondness' for Toronto because he was a Raptors fan when he was a kid, because they had Vince. That's all this 'fondness' is based upon, nothing else.

If the Raps are a good team of course you can attract top flight players. This is the same principle for almost any sport. That doesn't mean I feel like players won't come to Toronto, because that's not what I think at all. I think players flock to 'winning'.

The difference between us is you probably think the team and roster is ascending and has potential. I tend to think this roster has hit their high point and they are only decent this year because of good team chemistry and a historically bad conference. You typically need two stars to be a contender in this league and imho, Durrant coming to Toronto would still only be one star. They have no other significant players at this time, in my books. I don't see Durrant leaving OKC playing with Westbrook and Ibaka to come and play with Derozan, Lowry and JV. as I think you are severely overvaluing the current players on this team and their abilities.

Its as simple as that for me. It has nothing to do with me thinking they can't attract players. I think you can but no superstar is dying to come a .500 team.

I think you're overvaluing OKC's roster. **If we're talking about "peaking" or ability to maintain a certain level of talent and competitiveness.

And I don't know about Toronto's roster, but I definitely don't assume they're peaking. The fact alone that JV and Ross are still just second year players makes that unlikely. If their combined improvement even just adds 5 wins to the team, even if DeMar and Kyle can't maintain quite their level of performance, it's enough to keep us a perennial playoff team in the East. Now, we still wouldn't be contenders, but you add Durant to even a 6th or 7th seed in the East, and they immediately jump up to a top 3 seed and contender. I think this would be true of any decent roster you could add him to, so I definitely think Toronto will have some competition, and like I said before, likely from teams that at the moment we can't really foresee.

The bonus for Toronto is all their pieces are young, at the oldest just hitting their prime. This definitely provides an opportunity for a decent window for success that could last 3 or 4 seasons.

While the East is weak this year, Toronto also has a winning record against the West. They have a good home record and a good road record as well. They may not be contenders, but they have been solid across the board. They have been relatively consistent with no significant losing streak. Do I think they're bound to only improve? No, not necessarily, as I said above and in other posts, they could easily end up a lower playoff seed for the next couple of years if some East teams bounce back after this season. However I don't think the talent on their roster has peaked, and I don't think what they've accomplished is just a fluke season. I won't be upset if they win 47+ games this year and then just win 45 (or even a couple less) games next year, as long as JV and Ross continue to show growth and the roster still has good chemistry, both things which I think are very likely.

[The Great One]

To the title of the article I say: no sh!t - he is what about 29 franchises in the league need outside Miami.

As for the article, Kelly takes a frequently whispered and tossed about idea from the deepest, inner sanctums of the world wide web and throws it in to the mainstream (be sure to click link).










http://www.thestar.com/sports/raptor...ed_kelly.html#



So are the Raptors on the KD train?
Fav team growing up - check
high school teammate and PG - check
books clear for 2016 - check
high profile management with a history of luring big stars - check
ownership willing to spend - check
major performing artist who KD is a fan of - check
*bonus marks* friends with said performing artiest - check
chilling with Landry Fields over the holidays - check


So what say ye? Is this for realsies?

Exactly my reaction when i saw the title lol.

[sleepz]

Indeed we are wondering who's roster is in better shape.

Westbrook has had 3 knee surgeries in the past year and is a player who depends almost entirely on his explosiveness to be effective.

Ibaka is a 3rd fiddle. I like him a lot, but he's not alleviating that much of the load from KD.

Beyond that they have question marks everywhere. And they don't have a lot of financial wiggleroom coming up, on top of having ownership that really doesn't want to go into tax territory.

They are contenders at all because of KD, not because of a fantastic roster. Their management has done a great job trying to plug holes and keep a patch-job together, but they could've much more easily maintained a solid group if they were just willing to spend to keep Harden (who was critical to their last Finals run). It's going to be harder and harder for them to improve the team beyond KD with late draft picks and little money to spend. And if Westbrook continues to struggle with knee issues, they're in a tight spot.

So yeah, the OKC situation is not fantastic. KD makes the situation. If he leaves, he breaks it. I don't know that they're a playoff team in the West without him, even if Westbrook is healthy. It's definitely debatable. While Toronto is a playoff team in the East (which is generally weaker) without him. If they can continue that for a couple of years, while OKC fails to win (and has minimal avenues for improvement), I can see Toronto being a pretty damn appealing roster/situation for free agents, including but not limited to KD.

You can bring up Westbrook and the knee surgeries. has it affected his play negatively in any way when he's on the court. Do you see him having lost any of his explosiveness? Until the knees are becoming a real problem, you're making a bigger deal out of something that is not an issue at this point in time. Lowry had all kinds of previous injury concerns but he';s been healthy this year (contract year) RW on bad knees is still better than any healthy player the Raps have.

Ibaka is a 3rd fiddle on OKC. If you put him on the Raps where does he rank? Yeah, he's probably the best player on the team (argument to be made with Ibaka vs. Lowry) so imho, OKC's 3rd wheel is better or equivalent to the Raps 1st wheel.

These question marks you refer to for OKC is no different than the Raptors. The Raps best player could walk at the end of the year. JV has looked like he has regressed. They still don't have a swing man that can actually create his own shot. They have FA's that are part of the team now that could once again leave, so to me the questions marks apply to the Raps as well. In fact the Raps have question marks when it comes to talent, OKC isn't.

if you think they are contenders simply because of KD, I would have to disagree with you. You need more than one player to be a contender in this league. Just ask Lebron.

How can you say for certain that Toronto is a playoff team next year or the year after that for that matter? When was the last time they were in the playoffs? When was the last time they were making the playoffs consistently?

You're giving them way too much benefit of the doubt.

[sleepz]

I think you're overvaluing OKC's roster. **If we're talking about "peaking" or ability to maintain a certain level of talent and competitiveness.

And I don't know about Toronto's roster, but I definitely don't assume they're peaking. The fact alone that JV and Ross are still just second year players makes that unlikely. If their combined improvement even just adds 5 wins to the team, even if DeMar and Kyle can't maintain quite their level of performance, it's enough to keep us a perennial playoff team in the East. Now, we still wouldn't be contenders, but you add Durant to even a 6th or 7th seed in the East, and they immediately jump up to a top 3 seed and contender. I think this would be true of any decent roster you could add him to, so I definitely think Toronto will have some competition, and like I said before, likely from teams that at the moment we can't really foresee.

The bonus for Toronto is all their pieces are young, at the oldest just hitting their prime. This definitely provides an opportunity for a decent window for success that could last 3 or 4 seasons.

While the East is weak this year, Toronto also has a winning record against the West. They have a good home record and a good road record as well. They may not be contenders, but they have been solid across the board. They have been relatively consistent with no significant losing streak. Do I think they're bound to only improve? No, not necessarily, as I said above and in other posts, they could easily end up a lower playoff seed for the next couple of years if some East teams bounce back after this season. However I don't think the talent on their roster has peaked, and I don't think what they've accomplished is just a fluke season. I won't be upset if they win 47+ games this year and then just win 45 (or even a couple less) games next year, as long as JV and Ross continue to show growth and the roster still has good chemistry, both things which I think are very likely.

I think you've completely overvalued the Raptors roster. OKC has 2 superstars and 1 legitimate all-star/defensive player of the year type and you're telling me how I'm overvaluing their team?

What do you think you are doing with Toronto's roster? They play in one of the weakest conferences in modern sports. One fringe all-star and a whole lot of talk about potential, growth and youth.lol

Everyone assumes because you are 'young' that this must mean you are going to get better. It doesn't always work like that.

OKC has established players and I'd take their roster over ours any day of the week now and moving forward.

[white men can't jump]

You can bring up Westbrook and the knee surgeries. has it affected his play negatively in any way when he's on the court. Do you see him having lost any of his explosiveness? Until the knees are becoming a real problem, you're making a bigger deal out of something that is not an issue at this point in time. Lowry had all kinds of previous injury concerns but he';s been healthy this year (contract year) RW on bad knees is still better than any healthy player the Raps have.

Ibaka is a 3rd fiddle on OKC. If you put him on the Raps where does he rank? Yeah, he's probably the best player on the team (argument to be made with Ibaka vs. Lowry) so imho, OKC's 3rd wheel is better or equivalent to the Raps 1st wheel.

These question marks you refer to for OKC is no different than the Raptors. The Raps best player could walk at the end of the year. JV has looked like he has regressed. They still don't have a swing man that can actually create his own shot. They have FA's that are part of the team now that could once again leave, so to me the questions marks apply to the Raps as well. In fact the Raps have question marks when it comes to talent, OKC isn't.

if you think they are contenders simply because of KD, I would have to disagree with you. You need more than one player to be a contender in this league. Just ask Lebron.

How can you say for certain that Toronto is a playoff team next year or the year after that for that matter? When was the last time they were in the playoffs? When was the last time they were making the playoffs consistently?

You're giving them way too much benefit of the doubt.

Man I so strongly disagree with you.

It has affected Westbrook on the court, but more importantly, it's affected his ability to be on the court. Lowry has had nagging injury issues, but he's never had a serious injury, let alone multiple knee surgeries in one year.

I think you're seriously overvaluing Serge Ibaka. If he were on the Raps, he would still be the 3rd best player on our team. He has no go-to scoring ability whatsoever (no post up or face up game). He thrives playing off the ball to Durant and Westbrook. He is the prototypical 3rd/4th option on a good team. He hits open shots, makes cuts to the basket, thrives on the glass.

JV has not regressed. He added too much upper body weight and it has hindered his speed/explosiveness a bit. This is something he should easily be able to work on since he's still so young. If you think a 21 year old can't improve his speed, I don't know what to tell you. His mental game has improved a lot. As much as people rag on his TOs, his post game is still much better than last year, where he had literally no moves whatsover. His D is a work in progress, but his positioning, and use of his length without fouling, have improved quite a bit. He's often the best rebounder on the court in most games, including making Serge Ibaka a total non-factor down the stretch of that tight loss to OKC where Durant basically singlehandedly won the game for them. He's only 21 and will only get better for the next few years. Regressed? Seriously, what a crock of shit.

OKC definitely have question marks. Ask LeBron? What happened to the contending Cleveland team he was on after he left? They became the worst team in the league right away. You need more than one player in this league to win, but you don't necessarily need more than one to have the record of a contender. I maintain that OKC without Durant would be life and death just to make the playoffs, and in the West, I'd be pretty doubtful of that.

How can you say they've peaked? Is this basically the first year this team has been together most of the year? Have they not been performing at a consistent level since the Gay trade? The last time the Raps were in the playoffs the team was completely different, and built completely differently. This is the first time the team has been this good with this many young players. Salmons is the only player in the top 8 over 30 (and the least important), while all 7 others are 27 or younger. None of them have had career-sidetracking injuries, and they've shown great chemistry.

You're way too pessimistic, and have a serious "grass is greener on the other side" view of non-Toronto teams like OKC.

They have just as many question marks about talent as Toronto beyond KD. Westbrook is a very overrated player. There, I said it. The dude is just a bad shooter. He makes poor decisions. He gets assists, but has a horrible, just absolutely atrocious turnover rate for a guy slotted at PG (this year 7 apg for 3.9 tos....that's dreadful). It's a clear case to me of a player being overhyped because of the team he's on. He is a volatile character who has just as many personality questions, if not more, than Lowry has for much of his career. He was the 3rd best player on OKC when Harden was there, and I love Harden and had doubts about just how high he'd climb when allowed to be a 1st option, but yeah, he was very obviously more critical to their success at the time than Russ.

*And no other pieces on their roster other than Ibaka or Westbrook are talents that you'd have a hrad time replacing or parting with.

So yeah, if Toronto keeps Lowry, they definitely have not peaked. And even if they don't, they have 2 seasons to draft or sign a starting PG of the future before they have to make a run at Durant. Toronto is in a great position. As good as pretty much anybody if they want to make a serious run at Durant. Doesn't mean they'll be successful. But yeah, I think you're definitely underappreciating the foundation in place. They definitely have questions, but they also have a very good starting point with only one major question at the moment in Lowry.

I also think you're underestimating the impact of malaise from being in an unchanging situation. Durant will have been with the Thunder organization for 9 years when he becomes a free agent. They need to bring a championship home otherwise it woudn't be at all surprising for him to question the merit of staying there, and look for a better place to work on his legacy.

[mtaddy]

100% agree with everything you said. I believe the people are just using the LEASTern Conference as an excuse to knock this team. The fact of the matter is that we have all the KEY pieces to attract a free agent in 2016. Heck I think we can even make a run a LeBron (even though he is not going to leave Miami in my opinion). We have flexibility, we have a core (in JV, Ross, DD), a starting PG in (Lowry or even Vasquez [who played with Durant in high school]), but most of all we are a BIG market team. I don't know if any of the people here know this because people act as if Toronto is a small market :S ... we are the 5th LARGEST market in NA (which includes New Mexico, so if we are just counting America we are bigger than all but 4 cities). Regardless of what ESPN likes to think because they do not get views from Canada which is probably why people think we are a small market. Finally, I would like to add the style of play that Casey has implemented (although people like to talk shit) it is how champion teams are run. Look at the Spurs, the Miami team, even the 2011 Dallas team that BEAT Miami (ironically Casey was on that team so he knows the winning formula). This style of play with defense and quick ball movement with limited isolation will not put a wear and tear on a superstar. People can call me wrong or whatever, but its true. Sure Casey messes up occasionally but he's shown a vast improvement. No one wants to see KD go to a NY and LA where they'll just rely on him to do every single thing. I will point out one thing however, if Westbrook grows up just like Kyle Lowry did in the off-season then KD aint leaving anywhere. Westbrook will a good mindset, and less of an ego will be the best thing for OKC to win a ring.

[Jamshid]

KD to Toronto ... All I can say:

DREAM ON

[rocwell]

KD to Toronto ... All I can say:

DREAM ON

If OKC can't win a championship, then... he's coming.

[Nilanka]

If OKC can't win a championship, then... he's coming.

LOL! Incredible photoshop skills!

[sleepz]

Man I so strongly disagree with you.

It has affected Westbrook on the court, but more importantly, it's affected his ability to be on the court. Lowry has had nagging injury issues, but he's never had a serious injury, let alone multiple knee surgeries in one year.

I think you're seriously overvaluing Serge Ibaka. If he were on the Raps, he would still be the 3rd best player on our team. He has no go-to scoring ability whatsoever (no post up or face up game). He thrives playing off the ball to Durant and Westbrook. He is the prototypical 3rd/4th option on a good team. He hits open shots, makes cuts to the basket, thrives on the glass.

JV has not regressed. He added too much upper body weight and it has hindered his speed/explosiveness a bit. This is something he should easily be able to work on since he's still so young. If you think a 21 year old can't improve his speed, I don't know what to tell you. His mental game has improved a lot. As much as people rag on his TOs, his post game is still much better than last year, where he had literally no moves whatsover. His D is a work in progress, but his positioning, and use of his length without fouling, have improved quite a bit. He's often the best rebounder on the court in most games, including making Serge Ibaka a total non-factor down the stretch of that tight loss to OKC where Durant basically singlehandedly won the game for them. He's only 21 and will only get better for the next few years. Regressed? Seriously, what a crock of shit.

OKC definitely have question marks. Ask LeBron? What happened to the contending Cleveland team he was on after he left? They became the worst team in the league right away. You need more than one player in this league to win, but you don't necessarily need more than one to have the record of a contender. I maintain that OKC without Durant would be life and death just to make the playoffs, and in the West, I'd be pretty doubtful of that.

How can you say they've peaked? Is this basically the first year this team has been together most of the year? Have they not been performing at a consistent level since the Gay trade? The last time the Raps were in the playoffs the team was completely different, and built completely differently. This is the first time the team has been this good with this many young players. Salmons is the only player in the top 8 over 30 (and the least important), while all 7 others are 27 or younger. None of them have had career-sidetracking injuries, and they've shown great chemistry.

You're way too pessimistic, and have a serious "grass is greener on the other side" view of non-Toronto teams like OKC.

They have just as many question marks about talent as Toronto beyond KD. Westbrook is a very overrated player. There, I said it. The dude is just a bad shooter. He makes poor decisions. He gets assists, but has a horrible, just absolutely atrocious turnover rate for a guy slotted at PG (this year 7 apg for 3.9 tos....that's dreadful). It's a clear case to me of a player being overhyped because of the team he's on. He is a volatile character who has just as many personality questions, if not more, than Lowry has for much of his career. He was the 3rd best player on OKC when Harden was there, and I love Harden and had doubts about just how high he'd climb when allowed to be a 1st option, but yeah, he was very obviously more critical to their success at the time than Russ.

*And no other pieces on their roster other than Ibaka or Westbrook are talents that you'd have a hrad time replacing or parting with.

So yeah, if Toronto keeps Lowry, they definitely have not peaked. And even if they don't, they have 2 seasons to draft or sign a starting PG of the future before they have to make a run at Durant. Toronto is in a great position. As good as pretty much anybody if they want to make a serious run at Durant. Doesn't mean they'll be successful. But yeah, I think you're definitely underappreciating the foundation in place. They definitely have questions, but they also have a very good starting point with only one major question at the moment in Lowry.

I also think you're underestimating the impact of malaise from being in an unchanging situation. Durant will have been with the Thunder organization for 9 years when he becomes a free agent. They need to bring a championship home otherwise it woudn't be at all surprising for him to question the merit of staying there, and look for a better place to work on his legacy.

So Derozan is better than Ibaka? lol I'll end this debate because if you feel that way I don't have anything else to say.

Your assesment about me having some inferiority complex is way off. You can speak for yourself but not for me. I am only analyzing the actual team and players, as is. Me speculating about about KD is something I might consider if there were actually some valid links to him, he's expressed a desire to play here or the team is actually a contender. None of those things I think its going to happen within the next 24-36 months.

We'll see in 2 years where everything is. I'm glad you are so optimistic about the core players on this team, their abilities and the direction of the franchise. I feel like I've definitely seen this movie before and it's a sequel I'm not looking forward to.

[mcHAPPY]

#trolling

A brief look to the imagined future, when DeMar DeRozan & Kevin Durant are both Raptors, in this USA Basketball vid: https://t.co/vMK8zhFdDl

— Dave Zarum (@DaveZarum) July 29, 2014

Kay Dee to Dee Dee!

[Scraptor]

The only problem I have with the KD talk is that it makes it sound like it's OKC or us, when in reality, unless we really become a contender in the next two years, there will probably be a half-dozen other situations as appealing or more appealing than ours.

Washington in specific would probably be his first choice, if we're at the same level as the Wizards. "I grew up watching the Bullets/Wizards. I grew up taking the train to that arena, all the time, to watch Georgetown, the Bullets, the Washington Mystics. That whole city is a part of me. It's in my blood. I love going back home, seeing my family and playing there, but I love Oklahoma City too."

But then there are all these other places that will be just one piece away. Look at Chicago and Houston this summer. Both of them were practically poised for title contention. Chicago has a terrific defensive roster and a returning DRose. Houston has two superstars and could have kept Parsons if they'd signed someone first. Chicago is the third biggest city in the US and Houston has no state tax. But neither could sign an impact player.

If we're even going to have the slightest hope in hell we need to go balls out to get better in the next two years and then hope for the best, but even then we probably have like a 15% shot at getting KD.

[stooley]

The only problem I have with the KD talk is that it makes it sound like it's OKC or us, when in reality, unless we really become a contender in the next two years, there will probably be a half-dozen other situations as appealing or more appealing than ours.

Washington in specific would probably be his first choice, if we're at the same level as the Wizards. "I grew up watching the Bullets/Wizards. I grew up taking the train to that arena, all the time, to watch Georgetown, the Bullets, the Washington Mystics. That whole city is a part of me. It's in my blood. I love going back home, seeing my family and playing there, but I love Oklahoma City too."

But then there are all these other places that will be just one piece away. Look at Chicago and Houston this summer. Both of them were practically poised for title contention. Chicago has a terrific defensive roster and a returning DRose. Houston has two superstars and could have kept Parsons if they'd signed someone first. Chicago is the third biggest city in the US and Houston has no state tax. But neither could sign an impact player.

If we're even going to have the slightest hope in hell we need to go balls out to get better in the next two years and then hope for the best, but even then we probably have like a 15% shot at getting KD.

exactly, its a pipe dream. it's not impossible but its highly unlikely.

if any other option presents itself that's better than 15% of KD, better to take that and forget about Durant.

[mcHAPPY]

#Bruno2016

Forget Durant.


Al Horford!

Garnett was 31 when he joined the C's.
West was 31 when he joined Pacers.

Al will be just turned 30 that summer.

[stooley]

we don't even have cap space in 2016! we're spending what we got next year, or at least we should.