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Thread: Duane Casey's coaching ability..

  1. #41
    Raptors Republic Veteran Nilanka's Avatar
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    Quote golden wrote: View Post
    Simple, profound and very true. If you look at the Expected Win-Loss vs. the actual Win-Loss, before last night's games, the Raptors are almost at the bottom of the league, which speaks to the inability to win close games. I would put a fair share of that on the coaches and the ability to make think-on-your-feet type of tactical decisions.


    I have no idea how to interpret this chart....
    "I don't lie. I willfully participate in a campaign of misinformation." - Fox Mulder

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    Raptors Republic Rookie Fonzi's Avatar
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    Quote JimiCliff wrote: View Post
    He's 56. I think that it took him this long to keep a head coaching gig is telling, and doesn't suggest anything good
    He's `young' in terms of years on the job as head coach. He's getting the team to play as more than the sum of its parts. He'll keep learning and getting better if we keep him.

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    Quote golden wrote: View Post
    Simple, profound and very true. If you look at the Expected Win-Loss vs. the actual Win-Loss, before last night's games, the Raptors are almost at the bottom of the league, which speaks to the inability to win close games. I would put a fair share of that on the coaches and the ability to make think-on-your-feet type of tactical decisions.


    LOL at Brooklyn being number one. That's what happens when you have Jor Johnson, Paul Pierce and Deron Williams on your team. All of them hit BIG shot after BIG shot. We're screwed in the playoffs.

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    Joe*

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    Quote Nilanka wrote: View Post
    I have no idea how to interpret this chart....
    Expected W-L is a stat geek calculation, based on points scored vs. points given up & adjusted based on historical data. On BBREF, you always see the expected W-L at the top of the team page.

    PTS/G: 100.9 (15th of 30) ▪ Opp PTS/G: 97.6 (6th of 30)
    SRS: 2.91 (10th of 30) ▪ Pace: 91.9 (23rd of 30)
    Off Rtg: 108.0 (10th of 30) ▪ Def Rtg: 104.5 (9th of 30)
    Expected W-L: 44-27 (9th of 30)

    http://www.basketball-reference.com/...html#wins_pyth
    http://www.basketball-reference.com/teams/TOR/2014.html

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    Raptors Republic All-Star JimiCliff's Avatar
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    Quote Fonzi wrote: View Post
    He's `young' in terms of years on the job as head coach.
    Yeah, I realize that's what you meant

    I'm just saying it's worth noting that it took him a relatively long time to become an established head coach, which can't be a good thing, because obviously nothing about him screamed NBA HEAD COACHING POTENTIAL otherwise this would have happened much sooner.

    This also means that once (if) he 'learns' what he needs to know to be an elite coach...he'll be about ready to retire. Which begs the question - does it actually make any sense to be investing time in him?

    On a completely different note:

    His first year here, the team leaps ahead miles and bounds defensively; because, we've been told, he's a defensive specialist. Ok, fine, the narrative's running along nicely...

    ...but second year, the team completely regresses defensively...

    Has this ever been explained?

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    Raptors Republic All-Star JimiCliff's Avatar
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    Quote golden wrote: View Post
    Simple, profound and very true. If you look at the Expected Win-Loss vs. the actual Win-Loss, before last night's games, the Raptors are almost at the bottom of the league, which speaks to the inability to win close games. I would put a fair share of that on the coaches and the ability to make think-on-your-feet type of tactical decisions.


    Hmm well from what I know Tyrone Corbin and Mike Brown are considered to be two of the worst coaches employed right now, to say nothing of what people think of Jason Kidd...I'm not sure I want to draw any conclusions from this chart

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    Quote GLF wrote: View Post
    LOL at Brooklyn being number one. That's what happens when you have Jor Johnson, Paul Pierce and Deron Williams on your team. All of them hit BIG shot after BIG shot. We're screwed in the playoffs.
    That's why we need to avoid Brooklyn in the playoffs.

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    Raptors Republic Starter mountio's Avatar
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    Quote golden wrote: View Post
    Simple, profound and very true. If you look at the Expected Win-Loss vs. the actual Win-Loss, before last night's games, the Raptors are almost at the bottom of the league, which speaks to the inability to win close games. I would put a fair share of that on the coaches and the ability to make think-on-your-feet type of tactical decisions.


    That is certainly one way to interpret this data. Others, like Hollinger (pretty sure his ratings on ESPN.com are similar to this) would say that winning or losing close games is random and this data would actually show that, given our record, we are actually a much better team than our record suggests.

    Not saying Im in that camp - there is no question our late game execution is HORRIBLE ... but there is a somewhat positive spin to this data ...

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    Quote JimiCliff wrote: View Post
    Hmm well from what I know Tyrone Corbin and Mike Brown are considered to be two of the worst coaches employed right now, to say nothing of what people think of Jason Kidd...I'm not sure I want to draw any conclusions from this chart
    To me, the pythagorean W-L is an indication of the ability to win games that you had a chance of winning - which is almost like prs1 said.... Casey is a half-decent coach until the last 2 minutes. That said, the question is: has Casey's decent overall coaching ability put us in a position to win more games, which he then squandered due his inferior end-of-game management abilities? Of course, it's hard to separate inherent talent from the equation and in the case of the Raptors, we supposedly downgraded in talent after the Gay trade. Unanswerable questions, all, but nice fodder for debate.

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    Raptors Republic All-Star JimiCliff's Avatar
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    Quote psrs1 wrote: View Post
    That's why we need to avoid Brooklyn in the playoffs.
    I want to play them. I'd like nothing better than to take those fools out

    Also, I really don't think we have any reason to be scared of them

  13. #52
    Raptors Republic Veteran Nilanka's Avatar
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    Quote JimiCliff wrote: View Post
    I want to play them. I'd like nothing better than to take those fools out

    Also, I really don't think we have any reason to be scared of them
    Yeah, I'd much rather avoid Chicago.

    Nets/Raptors would be a great series to watch.
    "I don't lie. I willfully participate in a campaign of misinformation." - Fox Mulder

  14. #53
    Raptors Republic All-Star JimiCliff's Avatar
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    Quote golden wrote: View Post
    To me, the pythagorean W-L is an indication of the ability to win games that you had a chance of winning - which is almost like prs1 said.... Casey is a half-decent coach until the last 2 minutes. That said, the question is: has Casey's decent overall coaching ability put us in a position to win more games, which he then squandered due his inferior end-of-game management abilities? Of course, it's hard to separate inherent talent from the equation and in the case of the Raptors, we supposedly downgraded in talent. Unanswerable questions, all, but nice fodder for debate.
    What do you mean by pythagorean W-L?

  15. #54
    Raptors Republic All-Star JimiCliff's Avatar
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    Quote Nilanka wrote: View Post
    Yeah, I'd much rather avoid Chicago.

    Nets/Raptors would be a great series to watch.
    Yeah, the Bulls are going to be a tough out. Man, can you imagine if Thibs had actual players (other than Noah of course) on his roster? lol

  16. #55
    Raptors Republic Veteran Nilanka's Avatar
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    Quote JimiCliff wrote: View Post
    What do you mean by pythagorean W-L?
    Trying to figure out the length of Phil Jackson's triangle offense :|
    "I don't lie. I willfully participate in a campaign of misinformation." - Fox Mulder

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  18. #56
    Raptors Republic All-Star stooley's Avatar
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    How do you attribute credit to a coach?

    I think you have to be part of the organization. I don't think that we're really equipped to have any kind of real opinion.

    We may see weird rotations, but we don't know why. Maybe the guy had a really bad practice and isn't feeling it. Maybe he told the coach his quads are burning and he needs a rest. Maybe he told the coach he didn't get a good night's rest and to yank him early if he isn't performing. Maybe there's a teaching side to his decisions.

    Coaching is a face to face kind of job. You base your decisions on personal factors that can't necessarily be perceived by spectators watching the game on screen.

    I just really don't feel comfortable passing any judgement on our coaches outside of our team under or over performing expectations. I trust Masai to make the right call, whatever it be.

  19. #57
    Raptors Republic All-Star JimiCliff's Avatar
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    Quote stooley wrote: View Post
    How do you attribute credit to a coach?

    I think you have to be part of the organization. I don't think that we're really equipped to have any kind of real opinion.

    We may see weird rotations, but we don't know why. Maybe the guy had a really bad practice and isn't feeling it. Maybe he told the coach his quads are burning and he needs a rest. Maybe he told the coach he didn't get a good night's rest and to yank him early if he isn't performing. Maybe there's a teaching side to his decisions.

    Coaching is a face to face kind of job. You base your decisions on personal factors that can't necessarily be perceived by spectators watching the game on screen.

    I just really don't feel comfortable passing any judgement on our coaches outside of our team under or over performing expectations. I trust Masai to make the right call, whatever it be.
    With respect to all this, there's that video of SVG at the Sloane Conference talking about how he doesn't like to go 2 for 1 at the end of quarters, because this means that a player can take a 'horseshit' shot that normally wouldn't be allowed, and doing so undermines the culture of shot 'responsibility' that he's trying to create.

    No doubt, there are waaaaaaay more things going on with the coaching than we could begin to know about.

    (That said: Dwane, just give to Kyle at the end of the game, ok?)

  20. #58
    Raptors Republic Veteran white men can't jump's Avatar
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    Quote JimiCliff wrote: View Post
    With respect to all this, there's that video of SVG at the Sloane Conference talking about how he doesn't like to go 2 for 1 at the end of quarters, because this means that a player can take a 'horseshit' shot that normally wouldn't be allowed, and doing so undermines the culture of shot 'responsibility' that he's trying to create.

    No doubt, there are waaaaaaay more things going on with the coaching than we could begin to know about.

    (That said: Dwane, just give to Kyle at the end of the game, ok?)
    Yeah, definitely notice this with 2 for 1 situations, not just with our team but across the league. I feel like it's pretty common that you end up getting 2 bad shots....and the opponent can also end up getting 1 good shot trying to get a solid possession in. So instead of getting 2 scores to 1, you end up getting nothing while giving up a basket. I wonder what stats show for how often it totally backfires like that?

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    Raptors Republic All-Star stooley's Avatar
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    Quote white men can't jump wrote: View Post
    Yeah, definitely notice this with 2 for 1 situations, not just with our team but across the league. I feel like it's pretty common that you end up getting 2 bad shots....and the opponent can also end up getting 1 good shot trying to get a solid possession in. So instead of getting 2 scores to 1, you end up getting nothing while giving up a basket. I wonder what stats show for how often it totally backfires like that?
    Well I think the stats actually say that the 2 for 1 is beneficial point-wise, despite the poor shots.

    I think the point JimiCliff and SVG were trying to make is that despite this perceived statistical advantage, the undermining of his culture of responsibility caused by these "bad" shots can trickle into the rest of the game, or even practice or other games down the road.

    SVG was talking about placing a priority on his "culture of responsibility" as opposed to a temporary increase in the scoring margin by a fraction of a field goal.

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    Raptors Republic Superstar Superjudge's Avatar
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    LOL at guys ripping Casey for late game coaching.

    FFsakes guys, he is a smart guy, has been mentored by amazing coaches, and has a fantastic staff... why is it so difficult to understand that players have to actually execute the plays called for them.

    Casey has done well.

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