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Thread: Raptors pre-playoff musings about Rounds 1 & 2

  1. #121
    Raptors Republic Superstar planetmars's Avatar
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    Quote raptors999 wrote: View Post
    If Indy fires Vogel do you hire him to replace Casey if you had a chance

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    Personally I would but I'd have to think really hard about it. Chemistry is very important to an NBA team, and Casey is respected in the Raptors locker room. Swapping him for a coach like Vogel could affect the chemistry of the team. Vogel however did a great job in developing George, Stephenson and Hibbert.

  2. #122
    Raptors Republic All-Star Primer's Avatar
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    Quote planetmars wrote: View Post
    If the Pacers lose in the first or second round, I wonder what they will do as an organization?

    George's max deal kicks in next year. Hibbert is already on one. Stephenson is a UFA. Turner is an RFA. They won't want to pay luxury tax since they are a smaller market team. Don't have a first round pick. Hill and West are both locked in for 3 years and 2 years respectively (West has a player option in his final year but I doubt he uses it).

    Vogel I think is the first to go, which is unfortunate for him because I think he's actually a really good coach.

    But makes you wonder if the Pacers would ever consider moving either Hibbert or George? Could make a move like that more out of desperation than anything.
    I think Indy would go for minor tweaks as opposed to blowing it up or firing Vogel. If they improved the PG position it would do wonders for them. They don't wanna pull a Knicks and ruin your chemistry and future for someone like Bargs.

  3. #123
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    Could be a long term gamble. Agreed with the Upside Toronto will either pick 19th or get 3rd seed. No use running from Miami this is Toronto first playoff run beat BKN then play Miami maybe better expoeriuence long run than Wiz/Pacers

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  4. #124
    Raptors Republic Superstar planetmars's Avatar
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    Quote Primer wrote: View Post
    I think Indy would go for minor tweaks as opposed to blowing it up or firing Vogel. If they improved the PG position it would do wonders for them. They don't wanna pull a Knicks and ruin your chemistry and future for someone like Bargs.
    Stephenson might just leave in free agency so that's a major tweak already. Turner is looking more and more like a scrub as well. I agree they need to upgrade their PG but Hill is locked up for 3 more years at $8M per. Who's going to want him in a trade?

  5. #125
    Raptors Republic Superstar isaacthompson's Avatar
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    Vogel doesn't deserve to be fired.. I'll be disappointed in their organization if he's let go this summer. He's basically built that team into a contender, he shouldn't be taking the fall for a roster that looks like they don't know how to play basketball at some points. Roster changes would be more ideal IMO.
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  6. #126
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    Quote planetmars wrote: View Post
    Stephenson might just leave in free agency so that's a major tweak already. Turner is looking more and more like a scrub as well. I agree they need to upgrade their PG but Hill is locked up for 3 more years at $8M per. Who's going to want him in a trade?
    I think they bring in someone else and move Hill to 6th man, a role he is better suited for in my opinion. He could play backup PG, or with the new starter, similar to our Lowry-Vasquez lineups.

    I agree Hill would be pretty difficult to trade with that deal, but they'd get more use out of him than we do out of Landry Fields, and they make almost the same money.

    Also, I think letting Stephenson and Turner go in FA will be a plus. They need someone who plays more within himself next to George.

  7. #127
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    Quote Primer wrote: View Post
    Everyone jumping the damn gun. Indiana is 0.5 games back of Miami, and we're 1 game back of Chicago, and we own the tiebreaker. We have 3 games left, playoff seeding is still very much up in the air.

    The bright side of us losing to the Knicks is that they're still in playoff contention, and their next game is against Chicago. If we had knocked them out of playoff contention, they might not put up much of a fight against the Bulls, but instead they'll be playing for their playoff lives. Just gotta root for Miami to beat Atlanta tonight to keep the Knicks playoff hopes alive.

    I really hope the Knicks playoff hopes come down to the last game of the season and we put an epic beating on them, sealing the 3rd seed and knocking the Knicks out of the playoffs at the same damn time.
    Indiana stinks right now and they are facing OKC next. Miami has a relatively easy schedule. I think they will get the 1st seed by at least 2 games. It would be a minor miracle if the Pacers get it.

    Raptors rising to the no.3 again is realistic, though.

  8. #128
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    Quote BobLoblaw wrote: View Post
    Indiana stinks right now and they are facing OKC next. Miami has a relatively easy schedule. I think they will get the 1st seed by at least 2 games. It would be a minor miracle if the Pacers get it.

    Raptors rising to the no.3 again is realistic, though.
    Raptors getting 3rd is still realistic but I think it's unlikely. Chicago has been playing so well and they don't have defensive slippage ever like we have. If we just played D yesterday we would have won. All Chicago has to do is play D the way they always play it and they win their last three games. Also them knowing that if they win the last three games they for sure get the 3rd seed will just motivate them even more. Not that they needed it because they play so hard all the time. Time will tell, but we should have controlled our own destiny instead of having to hope others lose. You get what you deserve and if Chicago wins their last three games they deserve it.

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    Quote isaacthompson wrote: View Post
    Vogel doesn't deserve to be fired.. I'll be disappointed in their organization if he's let go this summer. He's basically built that team into a contender, he shouldn't be taking the fall for a roster that looks like they don't know how to play basketball at some points. Roster changes would be more ideal IMO.
    If a coach lost his team, he lost his team. When Roy Hibbert is sitting on the bench watching TV show previews on his phone while his team is down and his teammates are fighting on the court in an important game, something is very wrong and something has to change.

    Maybe they have great playoffs and turn it around, and all of this goes away.. for now. If they look terrible in the playoffs too, I won't be surprised by anything. Well, except that George won't get moved and West probably can't get moved without seriously downgrading. Lance might be gone as a free agent, but it's Hibbert who's showing the worst body language right now. That said, Hibbert will be on an expiring contract, a rental, so while that's another argument for trading him, it will also diminish his trade value. There might be no fair value offers even if they wanted to trade him.

    Firing a coach is an easier thing to do. Rick Carlisle was a great coach too until he lost his team some years ago, and then the Pacers fired him. It wouldn't be very surprising.

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  11. #130
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    Quote GLF wrote: View Post
    Raptors getting 3rd is still realistic but I think it's unlikely. Chicago has been playing so well and they don't have defensive slippage ever like we have. If we just played D yesterday we would have won. All Chicago has to do is play D the way they always play it and they win their last three games. Also them knowing that if they win the last three games they for sure get the 3rd seed will just motivate them even more. Not that they needed it because they play so hard all the time. Time will tell, but we should have controlled our own destiny instead of having to hope others lose. You get what you deserve and if Chicago wins their last three games they deserve it.
    Apparently you weren't watching Detroit score on Chicago at will yesterday all first half. They still pulled through, but to say they don't have defensive slippage just isn't true. Detroit had nothing to play for. NY and Charlotte both have something to play for, and Orlando has been a tough out lately. Chicago has by no means wrapped up the 3rd seed as the Raptors defeatists would like us to believe.

  12. #131
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    Quote Primer wrote: View Post
    Apparently you weren't watching Detroit score on Chicago at will yesterday all first half. They still pulled through, but to say they don't have defensive slippage just isn't true. Detroit had nothing to play for. NY and Charlotte both have something to play for, and Orlando has been a tough out lately. Chicago has by no means wrapped up the 3rd seed as the Raptors defeatists would like us to believe.
    This is very true. But when I said slippage I meant it in terms of it following them from game to game. Throughout a game everyone has moments where their defense slips I understand that, but chicago doesn't let it go on for a month or weeks like the stats say we have. It will be for part of a game at most. That's how it was for us early on I don't know what happened. I guess it's was the injuries. So let's see what happens in these last three games where everyone is playing.

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    Quote GLF wrote: View Post
    This is very true. But when I said slippage I meant it in terms of it following them from game to game. Throughout a game everyone has moments where their defense slips I understand that, but chicago doesn't let it go on for a month or weeks like the stats say we have. It will be for part of a game at most. That's how it was for us early on I don't know what happened. I guess it's was the injuries. So let's see what happens in these last three games where everyone is playing.
    You can't hold Raptors to Bulls standard. Our NetRtg is still positive even though our defense slipped. That's why we've been winning. But our best month of defense is nowhere close to Bulls. They are just better.

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    Quote MixxAOR wrote: View Post
    You can't hold Raptors to Bulls standard. Our NetRtg is still positive even though our defense slipped. That's why we've been winning. But our best month of defense is nowhere close to Bulls. They are just better.
    That's true. Well I always thought we would lose the third seed to them anyway. They are definitely the better team so it's no big deal.

  15. #134
    Raptors Republic Rookie Malcolm's Avatar
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    Why are we doubting our own team?? Have some faith! Pacers suck man! Go Raptors!
    You gotta pound the rock to get better!

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    Quote Malcolm wrote: View Post
    Why are we doubting our own team?? Have some faith! Pacers suck man! Go Raptors!
    Because this team hasn't done anything. And regardless of pacers play as of late, they are clearly the better team.


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  17. #136
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    Quote BobLoblaw wrote: View Post
    If a coach lost his team, he lost his team. When Roy Hibbert is sitting on the bench watching TV show previews on his phone while his team is down and his teammates are fighting on the court in an important game, something is very wrong and something has to change.

    Maybe they have great playoffs and turn it around, and all of this goes away.. for now. If they look terrible in the playoffs too, I won't be surprised by anything. Well, except that George won't get moved and West probably can't get moved without seriously downgrading. Lance might be gone as a free agent, but it's Hibbert who's showing the worst body language right now. That said, Hibbert will be on an expiring contract, a rental, so while that's another argument for trading him, it will also diminish his trade value. There might be no fair value offers even if they wanted to trade him.

    Firing a coach is an easier thing to do. Rick Carlisle was a great coach too until he lost his team some years ago, and then the Pacers fired him. It wouldn't be very surprising.
    On top of all this I think they are fatigued as well..yes I know every team is, it's the end of the season etc.. but with the grinding style they play, if they lose any kind of edge they're not going to be nearly as good. I know every team (well maybe not) wants to win every game, but they were seriously desperate and intense from the get go trying to get that #1 seed. Might sound stupid, but I feel like they have burned themselves out a bit, both physically and mentally.

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    Quote BigCamB wrote: View Post
    On top of all this I think they are fatigued as well..yes I know every team is, it's the end of the season etc.. but with the grinding style they play, if they lose any kind of edge they're not going to be nearly as good. I know every team (well maybe not) wants to win every game, but they were seriously desperate and intense from the get go trying to get that #1 seed. Might sound stupid, but I feel like they have burned themselves out a bit, both physically and mentally.
    I couldn't agree more with you guys and yet the funny thing is I think they pull it out against OKC and actually land that 1 seed. I don't think Atlanta holds up against them so which team will show up for the 2nd round?

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  19. #138
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    So Indiana pulls it out against OKC and then those irritating Bulls hand us back the 3rd seed lol. What a race!

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  20. #139
    Raptors Republic Rookie Niagara Raptor's Avatar
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    I think with indy if they are truly are a mess they will get bumped first round and if they don't, winning a playoff series could be the remedy that ails them and brings them together so by the 2nd round I don't think they are going to be an easy out

  21. #140
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    Quote Niagara Raptor wrote: View Post
    I think with indy if they are truly are a mess they will get bumped first round and if they don't, winning a playoff series could be the remedy that ails them and brings them together so by the 2nd round I don't think they are going to be an easy out
    That's how I feel, we can only hope if they take on Atlanta that they at least take them to the limit.

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