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Thread: Why Amir Won't Start Ahead of Bargnani

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    Administrator Dr. James Naismith's Avatar
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    Default Why Amir Won't Start Ahead of Bargnani

    Doug dissects the dilemma of whether or not its feasible right now to replace both Andrea & Hedo in the Raptors starting line-up. As much as replacing more in the starting lineup is what most Raptors fans want right now, I kind of agree with Doug in that it might not necessarily make the most sense because it might totally screw with our 2nd unit.

    Thoughts?

    The trouble with doing, say, Amir Johnson for Bargnani, and thatís the one that makes the most sense to me, would be that it would totally screw the second unit out of its most energetic frontcourt player.

    Johnsonís been a revelation most nights, although heís back to fouling a bit more than anyone would like, and I donít think the gains theyíd get to start the game would be worth the hit theyíd take when the rotation starts.

    Look, Bargnani was awful in Portland and has been invisible too many times of late, there is no question about it.

    But I think that Jayís wiser to do what he did the other night against the Blazers: Go with a quick hook for Andrea if heís not getting himself involved at either end of the floor. Thatís a good way to send the message without totaling messing with the rotations.

    As for Turk, itís this simple: They have to keep running him out there because if he doesnít play well, they really canít win. Taking him out, for say Sonny, does nothing, really. The simple fact is Turkoglu has to be more like he was early in the Golden State Game and for most of the Portland game, when he more assertive and more effective and didnít look all that bad.

    If he is, theyíll have chances to win; if heís not, well, the criticisms will pour in
    For 4 1-2 months, Turkís been more a bust than a boon; itís time for him to start being a factor. The seasonís not lost by any stretch of the imagination, 43 wins and a fifth or sixth seed are certainly within reach if he can string together a series of solid games.

    Can he? I guess thatís whatíll keep a lot of you watching.
    Source - Click here

  2. #2
    Raptors Republic Starter James Ballswin (Realizar)'s Avatar
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    I think replacing Hedo for Sonny makes the most sense.

    Hedo would get more shot attempts, be able handle the ball more often and being a more focal, primary offensive option coming off the bench. Adding Sonny to the starting line-up would add more athleticism and enery, improve our premiter defence and wouldn't take away any FGA from Bosh or Bargnani.

    Bargnani should be kept in the starting line-up because he spreads the floor for Bosh on offence. On defence, I think having Sonny guarding the perimeter in front of him is an improvement over Hedo's defence, would/could/should translate into less necessary help rotations for Bargs, which in itself would help Bargs focus on guarding and boxing out his big-man.

    Here's hoping Coach Triano insert Sonny into the starting line-up to give Hedo free reign to "ball" all he wants off the bench.
    Last edited by James Ballswin (Realizar); Wed Mar 17th, 2010 at 12:00 PM.

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    I don't actually care if Andrea "starts" but he needs the quick hook if he just can't play defence or rebound.

    My complaint is that Jack was treated like a sacrificial lamb, when none of the defensive woes were his fault.

    Regarding taking Amir of the bench, and preserving his role: To that I say, that Triano needs to worry about his starting unit first. Worry about the bench only as long as the primary guys are functioning. Put his best most cohesive unit out there, and worry about the bench second. If the players playing the majority of the minutes, or the ones getting the benefit of the doubt with regards to playing time are under-performing by an objective measure (not just vs their usual performance) then they need to taken out. 2 rebs is not just bad compared to what we expect from Bargnani, it is pad period. If Bosh consistently started shooting 3-12 (ahem) I would say that he does not get the benefit of the doubt with respect to playing time either.

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    Quote James Ballswin (Realizar) wrote: View Post
    I think replacing Hedo for Sonny makes the most sense.
    Here's hoping Coach Triano insert Sonny into the starting line-up to give Hedo free reign to "ball" all he wants off the bench.
    Problem is that both our point guards are better with the ball than he is at this point. It made sense to put out Jack with Turk because Jack was most like Jameer - aggressive drives and ability to shoot the three. Works better off the ball than Jose. But now it turns out that Jack handling the ball is working better (mostly). So Turk still doesn't get the "ball" unless he can show us something other than he has shown.

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    Administrator Apollo's Avatar
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    Quote James Ballswin (Realizar) wrote: View Post
    Hedo would get more shot attempts, be able handle the ball more often and being a more focal, primary offensive option coming off the bench. Adding Sonny to the starting line-up would add more athleticism and enery, improve our premiter defence and wouldn't take away any FGA from Bosh or Bargnani.
    Whether he's on the bench or in the starting five he's going to have to play with a PG who likes the ball in his hands. I don't see the bench fixing what ails him or the team and that's not even going into the politics behind benching Colangelo's "stud" $50M free agent signing.

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    Raptors Republic Veteran Buddahfan's Avatar
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    Smith is straight up wrong about Johnson regressing in his foul ways. Johnson's foul rate has been steadily falling since December.


    On 36 minute basis here are his fouls by month

    Nov - 6.9
    Dec - 7.0
    Jan - 6.1
    Feb - 5.8
    Mar - 5.3


    So clearly Smith is wrong about Johnson's foul rate not continuing to improve.

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    Raptors Republic Starter rdiaz101's Avatar
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    Amir won't start ahead of Bargs because they just signed him to a 50 million dollar contract, just like they wont bring Hedo off the bench because thats another 50miilion dollar man. You cant have 2 players you just signed for 100mill sitting on the bench BC doesnt want to look stupid.

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    Administrator Apollo's Avatar
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    Quote Buddahfan wrote: View Post
    Smith is straight up wrong about Johnson regressing in his foul ways. Johnson's foul rate has been steadily falling since December.


    On 36 minute basis here are his fouls by month

    Nov - 6.9
    Dec - 7.0
    Jan - 6.1
    Feb - 5.8
    Mar - 5.3


    So clearly Smith is wrong about Johnson's foul rate not continuing to improve.
    In the last two games Amir has eight fouls, in the two prior he had four. He's right or wrong depending on the interpretation of his very vague statement.

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    Raptors Republic Veteran Buddahfan's Avatar
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    Quote Apollo wrote: View Post
    In the last two games Amir has eight fouls, in the two prior he had four. He's right or wrong depending on the interpretation of his very vague statement.
    In the last game he had 3 fouls in about 23 minutes which equates to 4.9 fouls in 36 minutes,

    Yes he had one high foul game against GS. So what of it? One bad game does not a trend make.

    Bosh had 6 turnovers in that game. Did Smith make a stupid comment about CB4 having bad handles?

    Of course not. Smith is a Johnson basher. He also wrote recently that Johnson has no offense and will never have one.

    His opinion is just total BS when it comes to Johnson, straight up.

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    Raptors Republic Starter James Ballswin (Realizar)'s Avatar
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    Quote Apollo wrote: View Post
    Whether he's on the bench or in the starting five he's going to have to play with a PG who likes the ball in his hands. I don't see the bench fixing what ails him or the team and that's not even going into the politics behind benching Colangelo's "stud" $50M free agent signing.
    If Hedo were coming off the bench he'd probably average more than the 7 shots per game he's been taking over the past 2 weeks.

  11. #11
    Administrator Apollo's Avatar
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    Quote Buddahfan wrote: View Post
    In the last game he had 3 fouls in about 23 minutes which equates to 4.9 fouls in 36 minutes,

    Yes he had one high foul game against GS. So what of it? One bad game does not a trend make.
    Wooah, I'll stop it right there. Doug Smith said this:

    "he’s back to fouling a bit more than anyone would like"

    In the past two games he's fouled eight times. It's more than I would like. Sounds like it's more than Doug would like. I'm sure other people around these parts would not be too impressed with eight fouls in two games either. I don't think Doug ever claimed to be a master statistician so I'm going to place my money on him referring to those two games rather some season long analysis. If he's talking about the past two games then he's right. He made a simple comment and I'm so I'm taking to simple approach to digesting it.
    Last edited by Apollo; Wed Mar 17th, 2010 at 04:31 PM.

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    Administrator Arsenalist's Avatar
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    Quote rdiaz101 wrote: View Post
    Amir won't start ahead of Bargs because they just signed him to a 50 million dollar contract, just like they wont bring Hedo off the bench because thats another 50miilion dollar man. You cant have 2 players you just signed for 100mill sitting on the bench BC doesnt want to look stupid.
    This.

    You already had Calderon in that role, imagine having two of your core as bench players. It's laughable.

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    one month ago everyone was high on andrea now his a total bust again
    people question your own sanity please

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    Raptors Republic Starter James Ballswin (Realizar)'s Avatar
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    Quote James Ballswin (Realizar) wrote: View Post
    If Hedo were coming off the bench he'd probably average more than the 7 shots per game he's been taking over the past 2 weeks.
    AND... Hedo's been getting into early foul trouble regularly because he can't stay in front of his guard, which forces Bosh & Bargs to leave their man and rotate to help - and than Bargs struggles to box out anyone.

    Perimeter defence is still the #1 problem with this team. #2 is defensive rebounding (see Bargs and Hedo).

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    Quote James Ballswin (Realizar) wrote: View Post
    AND... Hedo's been getting into early foul trouble regularly because he can't stay in front of his guard, which forces Bosh & Bargs to leave their man and rotate to help - and than Bargs struggles to box out anyone.

    Perimeter defence is still the #1 problem with this team. #2 is defensive rebounding (see Bargs and Hedo).
    james the number 2 problem is a direct result of problem number 1
    andrea always needs to help his guard ... , leaving his position

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