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Thread: DeMar DeRozan: The new Jrue Holiday?

  1. #201
    Raptors Republic Hall of Famer mcHAPPY's Avatar
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    Quote TRex wrote: View Post
    I wouldn't bet against Kobe if i were you He was averaging 27ppg last year.

    As for free agents, they're rumoured to be interested in Deng. Melo, if he opts out could end up in LA. You never know.

    I also have this weird feeling that the Lakers are going to win the lottery and draft Wiggins.
    No, I probably shouldn't bet against Kobe. However any wager would not be against his mind or desire rather it would be his body. He has played about 54,000 NBA minutes (regular season and playoffs). The types of injuries he suffered a lot of players at his age don't come back from.

    I don't think Deng puts them over any hump. What did Deng do for Cleveland? Sadly you could really make a good case that the Cavs actually have more talent than the Lakers right now.

    May 20th we'll find out if your feelings are true. Right now they would be slated to pick 6th but the balls might say differently soon enough.
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    Quote Matt52 wrote: View Post
    Derozan to Phoenix assuming Suns miss playoffs:

    Return:
    14th pick 2014
    Miles Plumlee
    2015 Lakers pick


    I'm tempted to add Washington's 2014 pick in but I feel that might be too much..... Lol Or not enough!
    That's really not a good trade.

    That puts us in Stauskas/Ennis/Gordon range in the draft. None of whom really have star potential.

    Miles Plumlee would be a great backup for Jonas, but I mean he would still be exactly that --- a backup.

    2015 Lakers pick is a toss-up, but in all likelihood with Kobe back, Pau back and likely another impact player, they're not going to be in the top 10 again. People have already mentioned how they could potentially be rolling with Exum and Melo/Deng next year.

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    Quote Matt52 wrote: View Post
    No, I probably shouldn't bet against Kobe. However any wager would not be against his mind or desire rather it would be his body. He has played about 54,000 NBA minutes (regular season and playoffs). The types of injuries he suffered a lot of players at his age don't come back from.

    I don't think Deng puts them over any hump. What did Deng do for Cleveland? Sadly you could really make a good case that the Cavs actually have more talent than the Lakers right now.

    May 20th we'll find out if your feelings are true. Right now they would be slated to pick 6th but the balls might say differently soon enough.
    No you can't. Unless you're talking about the Lakers minus Kobe. Kyrie Irving is incredibly overrated, I'd argue that he isn't any better than DeRozan (both score 20+ppg not particularly efficiently, Irving's assist numbers are better because he's a PG, defense is a wash --- if not DeRozan is better on that end) and I think we can all agree that DeRozan is not better than Kobe when healthy. Not to mention that Pau is also better than every other player on the Cavs by a wide margin.

    Deng would be an excellent complement to Kobe, help provide the Lakers with additional spacing and also improved defense on the wings. He'd do a lot for them actually...

  4. #204
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    Quote imanshumpert wrote: View Post
    No you can't. Unless you're talking about the Lakers minus Kobe. Kyrie Irving is incredibly overrated, I'd argue that he isn't any better than DeRozan (both score 20+ppg not particularly efficiently, Irving's assist numbers are better because he's a PG, defense is a wash --- if not DeRozan is better on that end) and I think we can all agree that DeRozan is not better than Kobe when healthy. Not to mention that Pau is also better than every other player on the Cavs by a wide margin.

    Deng would be an excellent complement to Kobe, help provide the Lakers with additional spacing and also improved defense on the wings. He'd do a lot for them actually...
    Yes you can.
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    Quote Matt52 wrote: View Post
    Yes you can.
    Lol this is extremely childish.

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    I actually don't think Ujiri is the cold, calculated robot that some seem to think. I honestly believe that a big part of the team's success this year has been because he's been able to establish chemistry from Leiweke all the way down to the players, and has empowered people all along that line: Casey and his staff, DD, Lowry, JV, Ross, etc. I genuinely think that the players are laying it all on the line for their GM, which isn't all that common in this sport. Leiweke and Ujiri preached family, accountability, and letting your commitment level to success dictate your role in the city and on the Raptors. I think a lot of that gets undermined if he decides to flip DD for a couple picks this summer. That may be a mistake in the long run, but I think it's the reality.

    I also don't expect a Jrue Holiday type return to be offered for DD this summer. The Pelicans got fleeced in that deal and have been universally roasted for it ever since. The Sixers were motivated to be as bad as possible, accepted next to nothing for guys like Hawes and Turner, and yet the Pelicans still gave them a ransom. The chances of another team repeating that same mistake so fresh on the heels of another team spending a year getting killed for it seem small to me.

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    Quote Fully wrote: View Post
    ...Leiweke and Ujiri preached family, accountability, and letting your commitment level to success dictate your role in the city...
    Sticking with the family mode, Leiwicke and Ujiri should now be preaching spankings for the bad Raptors children who refuse to play defense.

  8. #208
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    Quote imanshumpert wrote: View Post
    Lol this is extremely childish.
    Lol I know.

    I was going to write more but life called as it does now.

    I'm happy to agree to disagree.

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    DD is our best player who is actually putting up consistent numbers. Trading him is nothing but a mistake. Haters should stop hating on this guy.

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    Quote Jamshid wrote: View Post
    DD is our best player who is actually putting up consistent numbers. Trading him is nothing but a mistake. Haters should stop hating on this guy.
    I'm a big DeRozan fan.

    That being said, you're on the extreme end of the spectrum. Wanting to trade DD =/= hating DD or being a hater. At the same time, the people who think DD should be traded at all costs are also wrong.

    Trading him is not "nothing but a mistake". It's only a mistake if we don't get a superior talent (which is extremely difficult to do btw).

    You move DD if the value you're getting back is greater and also fits better with the long-term plan of the team. That is going to be very difficult to pull off, but if such a trade is on the table then you look at making it.

    With regards to this draft. To me there are 4 players with superstar potential (Wiggins, Embiid, Parker and Exum) and a few who could be all-stars (Randle, Vonleh, Smart, etc). With that said I don't think I'm moving DeRozan unless a top 5 pick is coming back the other way. Unfortunately i don't see any team in the top 5 being willing to make that kind of deal.

    In other words I'm not dealing DeRozan if I'm Ujiri unless I'm given an opportunity to get a near-guaranteed superior talent. There is zero reason in my mind to exchange him for another guy that might be an all-star just to "control that player longer" or "save cap space". Maybe if DeRozan was nearing his 30s, but I'm not moving a 24 year old all-star for a 20 year old might-become-an-all-star.

    People need to stop talking about "sell-high" also. Raptors fans have been saying we should sell-high on DeRozan for the last 3 seasons. I even heard suggestions last year that his "terrible contract" should be moved for an expiring and late pick. How stupid would we look now if we'd done that?

    Hang onto DeMar. If you can fleece someone in a deal then do it.

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    Quote Fully wrote: View Post
    I actually don't think Ujiri is the cold, calculated robot that some seem to think. I honestly believe that a big part of the team's success this year has been because he's been able to establish chemistry from Leiweke all the way down to the players, and has empowered people all along that line: Casey and his staff, DD, Lowry, JV, Ross, etc. I genuinely think that the players are laying it all on the line for their GM, which isn't all that common in this sport. Leiweke and Ujiri preached family, accountability, and letting your commitment level to success dictate your role in the city and on the Raptors. I think a lot of that gets undermined if he decides to flip DD for a couple picks this summer. That may be a mistake in the long run, but I think it's the reality.

    I also don't expect a Jrue Holiday type return to be offered for DD this summer. The Pelicans got fleeced in that deal and have been universally roasted for it ever since. The Sixers were motivated to be as bad as possible, accepted next to nothing for guys like Hawes and Turner, and yet the Pelicans still gave them a ransom. The chances of another team repeating that same mistake so fresh on the heels of another team spending a year getting killed for it seem small to me.
    I completely agree. Kind of why I fully ( no pun intended) expect Casey to come back as well, infact I guarantee it. Loyalty can be hard to break. I don't think DeRozan is going anywhere.

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    Quote imanshumpert wrote: View Post
    I'm a big DeRozan fan.

    That being said, you're on the extreme end of the spectrum. Wanting to trade DD =/= hating DD or being a hater. At the same time, the people who think DD should be traded at all costs are also wrong.

    Trading him is not "nothing but a mistake". It's only a mistake if we don't get a superior talent (which is extremely difficult to do btw).

    You move DD if the value you're getting back is greater and also fits better with the long-term plan of the team. That is going to be very difficult to pull off, but if such a trade is on the table then you look at making it.

    With regards to this draft. To me there are 4 players with superstar potential (Wiggins, Embiid, Parker and Exum) and a few who could be all-stars (Randle, Vonleh, Smart, etc). With that said I don't think I'm moving DeRozan unless a top 5 pick is coming back the other way. Unfortunately i don't see any team in the top 5 being willing to make that kind of deal.

    In other words I'm not dealing DeRozan if I'm Ujiri unless I'm given an opportunity to get a near-guaranteed superior talent. There is zero reason in my mind to exchange him for another guy that might be an all-star just to "control that player longer" or "save cap space". Maybe if DeRozan was nearing his 30s, but I'm not moving a 24 year old all-star for a 20 year old might-become-an-all-star.

    People need to stop talking about "sell-high" also. Raptors fans have been saying we should sell-high on DeRozan for the last 3 seasons. I even heard suggestions last year that his "terrible contract" should be moved for an expiring and late pick. How stupid would we look now if we'd done that?

    Hang onto DeMar. If you can fleece someone in a deal then do it.
    This isn't a bad point.

    I think you hold onto him for the mere possibility that he can improve his three point shot. If he can spend all summer working on that and come back next year shooting 35% from deep...

    ...that's when you sell high

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    Quote imanshumpert wrote: View Post
    I'm a big DeRozan fan.

    That being said, you're on the extreme end of the spectrum. Wanting to trade DD =/= hating DD or being a hater. At the same time, the people who think DD should be traded at all costs are also wrong.

    Trading him is not "nothing but a mistake". It's only a mistake if we don't get a superior talent (which is extremely difficult to do btw).

    You move DD if the value you're getting back is greater and also fits better with the long-term plan of the team. That is going to be very difficult to pull off, but if such a trade is on the table then you look at making it.

    With regards to this draft. To me there are 4 players with superstar potential (Wiggins, Embiid, Parker and Exum) and a few who could be all-stars (Randle, Vonleh, Smart, etc). With that said I don't think I'm moving DeRozan unless a top 5 pick is coming back the other way. Unfortunately i don't see any team in the top 5 being willing to make that kind of deal.

    In other words I'm not dealing DeRozan if I'm Ujiri unless I'm given an opportunity to get a near-guaranteed superior talent. There is zero reason in my mind to exchange him for another guy that might be an all-star just to "control that player longer" or "save cap space". Maybe if DeRozan was nearing his 30s, but I'm not moving a 24 year old all-star for a 20 year old might-become-an-all-star.

    People need to stop talking about "sell-high" also. Raptors fans have been saying we should sell-high on DeRozan for the last 3 seasons. I even heard suggestions last year that his "terrible contract" should be moved for an expiring and late pick. How stupid would we look now if we'd done that?

    Hang onto DeMar. If you can fleece someone in a deal then do it.
    Agreed 100%. It can't be understated enough how fortunate we are to have one of the most talented SG's in the league, whilst having him on a terrific contract.

    Not just that, but the answer to why the Lebrons and KD's of this league are always able to take advantage of us is because we do not give Fields minutes. Honestly, Landry Fields has proven that he can guard some of the best offensive SG's and SF's in this league.

    Obviously, in the offseason, changes will have to be made, but as of right now with 3 games left in the season, Casey has to realize that he does have more option at the end of the bench.
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    #fields4mvp
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    Quote TRex wrote: View Post
    I wouldn't bet against Kobe if i were you He was averaging 27ppg last year.

    As for free agents, they're rumoured to be interested in Deng. Melo, if he opts out could end up in LA. You never know.

    I also have this weird feeling that the Lakers are going to win the lottery and draft Wiggins.
    This right here. This year will be a perfect year for the NBA to show that the lottery isn't rigged, but you just know the Lakers will end up with one of the top 3 picks. The NBA can't afford to have the Lakers suck, and a Wiggins, Embiid, or Parker sets them up for the future (also insert Kevin Love).

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    Quote Primer wrote: View Post
    This right here. This year will be a perfect year for the NBA to show that the lottery isn't rigged, but you just know the Lakers will end up with one of the top 3 picks. The NBA can't afford to have the Lakers suck, and a Wiggins, Embiid, or Parker sets them up for the future (also insert Kevin Love).
    How can you the say the league is rigged toward the Lakers when they specifically stepped in and rejected the Chris Paul trade?
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    Quote joey_hesketh wrote: View Post
    How can you the say the league is rigged toward the Lakers when they specifically stepped in and rejected the Chris Paul trade?
    Wasn't that also influenced by the fact that the NBA owned the Hornets at the time?

    However, I still don't see why Stern could have vetoed the trade, given what New Orleans was getting in return.

    "The proposed trade would have sent Paul to the Lakers, Pau Gasol to the Rockets and furnished New Orleans with three top-flight NBA players in Kevin Martin, Luis Scola and Lamar Odom as well as playoff-tested guard Goran Dragic and a 2012 first-round pick that Houston had acquired from the Knicks. " (EPSN)

    Contrary to what the Hornets received from the Clippers trade, "The Clippers will send guard Eric Gordon, center Chris Kaman, forward Al-Farouq Aminu and Minnesota's unprotected 2012 first-round pick to the Hornets for Paul. The Clippers will also receive two future second-round picks." (ESPN)
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    Quote joey_hesketh wrote: View Post
    How can you the say the league is rigged toward the Lakers when they specifically stepped in and rejected the Chris Paul trade?
    The league only stepped in to stop that trade after all the other owners started raising hell. You really think the NBA, and in particular David Stern, was oblivious to the trade discussions until the deal was agreed in principle? The NBA blamed NO's GM like he was dealing behind their back or something. Stern was trying to send Paul to the Lakers for a pile of hot garbage but every NBA owner started screaming bloody murder so he had to veto the deal, yet somehow still got Paul to land in LA, albeit on a different team.

    Giving LAL one of the top 3 picks is a much more nuanced way of helping the Lakers, and one that NBA owners can't stop via complaining, as there is no vetoing the draft lottery.

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    Quote YoungGunRaptor wrote: View Post
    Wasn't that also influenced by the fact that the NBA owned the Hornets at the time?

    However, I still don't see why Stern could have vetoed the trade, given what New Orleans was getting in return.

    "The proposed trade would have sent Paul to the Lakers, Pau Gasol to the Rockets and furnished New Orleans with three top-flight NBA players in Kevin Martin, Luis Scola and Lamar Odom as well as playoff-tested guard Goran Dragic and a 2012 first-round pick that Houston had acquired from the Knicks. " (EPSN)

    Contrary to what the Hornets received from the Clippers trade, "The Clippers will send guard Eric Gordon, center Chris Kaman, forward Al-Farouq Aminu and Minnesota's unprotected 2012 first-round pick to the Hornets for Paul. The Clippers will also receive two future second-round picks." (ESPN)
    The Lakers deal was a huge pile of shit. The Clippers deal looked good at the time.

    Martin, Scola, Odom, Dragic, and the 16th pick in the 2012 draft (became Royce White). Odom was basically not even a player anymore by this point so his inclusion is laughable. Martin and Scola are both nice vets off the bench, and a great addition to a contender, but make no sense at all for a complete rebuild like NO was starting. Only Dragic and the pick made any sense for NO.

    The Clippers offer actually made sense all around. Gordon and Aminu were young players with lots of time to grow, perfect for a rebuilding team. Kaman was filler, and the 2012 pick was a lotto pick which ended up being 10th. They also got two 2nd rounders to sweeten the deal more.

    In hindsight both Gordon and Aminu haven't panned out, and they did a terrible job drafting Rivers with that 10th pick, but if all those guys had played to their potential NO would be much farther along in their rebuild.

  21. #220
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    Quote YoungGunRaptor wrote: View Post
    Wasn't that also influenced by the fact that the NBA owned the Hornets at the time?

    However, I still don't see why Stern could have vetoed the trade, given what New Orleans was getting in return.

    "The proposed trade would have sent Paul to the Lakers, Pau Gasol to the Rockets and furnished New Orleans with three top-flight NBA players in Kevin Martin, Luis Scola and Lamar Odom as well as playoff-tested guard Goran Dragic and a 2012 first-round pick that Houston had acquired from the Knicks. " (EPSN)

    Contrary to what the Hornets received from the Clippers trade, "The Clippers will send guard Eric Gordon, center Chris Kaman, forward Al-Farouq Aminu and Minnesota's unprotected 2012 first-round pick to the Hornets for Paul. The Clippers will also receive two future second-round picks." (ESPN)
    Strategy? If they do the Lakers trade, they would be an old team with no cap space. Dragic was a nobody back then. Besides, he was going to be an unrestricted free agent after that year, so he might be gone anyway. It was a Colangelo type trade, sacrifice the future and cap space to try to be a .500 team.

    Instead, they went with youth and flexibility, and it resulted in Anthony Davis. Anything else doesn't even matter. But they got a lotto pick in that trade too (which they screwed up), and Gordon was a very good young player who had a lot of value. Gordon was a gamble that didn't pay off, but if you need to rebuild, would you rather gamble on a good young player on a rookie contract or trade for an aging Scola paid 10 mil a year for years to come?

    Demps should've been fired for accepting that Lakers deal. What was he thinking? It was an idiotic deal. He still should be fired. Judging by his other moves so far, he's going to screw up Anthony Davis career in New Orleans, and Davis will eventually leave just like Chris Paul did.

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