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Thread: DeMar DeRozan: The new Jrue Holiday?

  1. #221
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    I wonder if Milwaukee will be forced by their owner to make some more win now moves. He doesn't want to be part of a rebuild and probably doesn't have the patience to wait for 2-3 years for Wiggins or Embiid to develop. Maybe, we do a Lowry + Demar for a Wiggins, Sanders trade?
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  2. #222
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    Quote Raptorsss wrote: View Post
    I wonder if Milwaukee will be forced by their owner to make some more win now moves. He doesn't want to be part of a rebuild and probably doesn't have the patience to wait for 2-3 years for Wiggins or Embiid to develop. Maybe, we do a Lowry + Demar for a Wiggins, Sanders trade?
    The Bucks are getting sold.

  3. #223
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    Quote imanshumpert wrote: View Post
    I'm a big DeRozan fan.

    That being said, you're on the extreme end of the spectrum. Wanting to trade DD =/= hating DD or being a hater. At the same time, the people who think DD should be traded at all costs are also wrong.

    Trading him is not "nothing but a mistake". It's only a mistake if we don't get a superior talent (which is extremely difficult to do btw).

    You move DD if the value you're getting back is greater and also fits better with the long-term plan of the team. That is going to be very difficult to pull off, but if such a trade is on the table then you look at making it.

    With regards to this draft. To me there are 4 players with superstar potential (Wiggins, Embiid, Parker and Exum) and a few who could be all-stars (Randle, Vonleh, Smart, etc). With that said I don't think I'm moving DeRozan unless a top 5 pick is coming back the other way. Unfortunately i don't see any team in the top 5 being willing to make that kind of deal.

    In other words I'm not dealing DeRozan if I'm Ujiri unless I'm given an opportunity to get a near-guaranteed superior talent. There is zero reason in my mind to exchange him for another guy that might be an all-star just to "control that player longer" or "save cap space". Maybe if DeRozan was nearing his 30s, but I'm not moving a 24 year old all-star for a 20 year old might-become-an-all-star.

    People need to stop talking about "sell-high" also. Raptors fans have been saying we should sell-high on DeRozan for the last 3 seasons. I even heard suggestions last year that his "terrible contract" should be moved for an expiring and late pick. How stupid would we look now if we'd done that?

    Hang onto DeMar. If you can fleece someone in a deal then do it.
    Lots of really good points in this post.

    Regarding the bold: that is kind of the point of my musings. The value coming back is going to be very subjective without the hindsight of time based on what the guy pulling the trigger views of the assets. For example if Ujiri feels he can get two solid rotational players at 14 and 17 plus filling a glaring need in a backup C with Plumlee AND rolling the dice on another high draft pick coming back in 2015 from LA, then maybe he does that knowing JV would become more of a focus on Offense, same with Ross. Raptors then might have more financial flexibility to retain the role player pieces they currently have in Patterson and Vasquez who are RFA this summer. 24 and 17 2014 pick, a top 10 2015 pick, and Plumlee would fill 4 roster spaces at less than the cost of DeRozan. Again, it all comes back to how much Ujiri values what is available. But guys are going to be available just in last couple of years 'Po was there at 15 as well as Leonard.

    The idea of chemistry is very important, too. I'm not sure what trading DeRozan does to guys on team. However DeRozan is not the heart and soul of the team. That is Lowry. I would also put Amir ahead of DeRozan.

    And don't forget the Gay trade. Sometimes giving up the most talented player does not guarantee you lose the trade or get worse. Sometimes the exact opposite happens.
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  4. #224
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    Quote Raptorsss wrote: View Post
    I wonder if Milwaukee will be forced by their owner to make some more win now moves. He doesn't want to be part of a rebuild and probably doesn't have the patience to wait for 2-3 years for Wiggins or Embiid to develop. Maybe, we do a Lowry + Demar for a Wiggins, Sanders trade?
    Just say no to Sanders.

    He is JR Smith level.

    He failed 3 weed rests to earn that 5 game suspension.
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  5. #225
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    Step 1: trade for Wiggins + Sanders
    Step 2: supply Sanders with plenty of weed
    Step 3: snitch to the NBA

    NBA checks Sanders again, Sanders gets banned, his contract gets voided, you are left with Wiggins and cap space. Profit!

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  7. #226
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    Quote Matt52 wrote: View Post
    Just say no to Sanders.

    He is JR Smith level.

    He failed 3 weed rests to earn that 5 game suspension.
    I am taking a gamble that we have developed a respected culture of accountability now, and Sanders is trying to dig himself off the team. But, if we get a good Sanders, who is willing to come off the bench as our second big I can live with it. I remember his pre-draft workout with Toronto and he was trying his best to try and get himself drafted by Toronto, saying we had the best practice/training facility he has been to and the like.
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  8. #227
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    Quote Raptorsss wrote: View Post
    I am taking a gamble that we have developed a respected culture of accountability now, and Sanders is trying to dig himself off the team. But, if we get a good Sanders, who is willing to come off the bench as our second big I can live with it. I remember his pre-draft workout with Toronto and he was trying his best to try and get himself drafted by Toronto, saying we had the best practice/training facility he has been to and the like.
    Maybe he just likes the weed up here.

    I fully agree with Matt. Just say no to Sanders. It's more than a little gamble. It's an $11M a year gamble up to 2018.
    -For a guy who has had one good season in 4
    -For a guy who has off court issues
    -For a guy who actually has not exactly been injury free either
    -And finally, for a guy whose contract could be a serious hindrance in improving the team for another 4 years.

    Totally not worth it.

  9. #228
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    I fully expect Ujiri to address the backup C issue through the draft and not FA. We just need a big body who can play some D and that should be available for super cheap in the 2nd round (think a younger Jason Collins, I'm not expecting the moon). Sanders is paid way too much to be a big off the bench, and other than 6th man we shouldn't be spending too much on bench players. Plus it's all about preserving flexibility for 2016, and 2nd round picks on cheap 4 year deals fits the bill nicely.

  10. #229
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    Trading from last place teams doesn't work. Usually they're last place for a reason

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    Quote white men can't jump wrote: View Post
    Charlotte has some cap space...

    But they have no lotto picks. They traded their pick. They are owed picks from Portland and Detroit. Portland's they should get, and it will be in the 20s. Detroit's is top 8 protected, and they sit as the 8th worst record, so that's probably staying in Detroit. Their own pick goes to Chicago.
    ohh yea thats right... but i believe having only the top 1 protected pick for 2015 from Detroit is much more valuable than say getting exactly the 9th pick in this years draft... and by the way Detroit situation looks.. its all the more appealing for other teams to snatch that pick off charlotte if they are willing to part with it for a star player. Ekhm "Kevin Love"

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    Quote ball4life wrote: View Post
    ohh yea thats right... but i believe having only the top 1 protected pick for 2015 from Detroit is much more valuable than say getting exactly the 9th pick in this years draft... and by the way Detroit situation looks.. its all the more appealing for other teams to snatch that pick off charlotte if they are willing to part with it for a star player. Ekhm "Kevin Love"
    But a star player has to want to play in Charlotte. That's been a problem for them for ages (never really were able to retain stars over the long haul even as the Hornets).

    Free agency this year is their most viable avenue for improvement. But again, even a non-star player who's a good player has to really want to go to Charlotte. Maybe they chase Deng. I don't know.

    I don't see their position as particularly amazing. I don't see how they vault themselves upwards from the type of team they are now. I'm not saying it couldn't happen, but I really don't see it as an obvious possibility.
    -Most of their young talent is still kinda mediocre (what would MKG, Biyombo, Henderson or Zeller fetch on the market? I'd wager not much at least at the moment). Kemba has been the only standout.
    -They are in a pretty "meh" market to try and attract free agents, and I don't know how much of a spender Jordan wants to be (strikes me as a cheap bastard, but hey, who knows).
    -They have that one possibly good asset in the Detroit pick coming over next year or the year after....but if Detroit stays in the mediocrity treadmill, that could just be a pick in the mid-late lottery in a draft that may not be as good as this one (ie. 9 this year might be better than the pick they could get even if it's at 5 or 6 another year).

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  14. #232
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    Rivalry in the East are prob Wizards, Bobcats then Cavs, 76ers and Magic for the future. Heat, Pacers, BK, Atlanta and Bulls will need to rebuild sooner or later. Bucks, Pistons may suck for a while

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    Quote ball4life wrote: View Post
    ohh yea thats right... but i believe having only the top 1 protected pick for 2015 from Detroit is much more valuable than say getting exactly the 9th pick in this years draft... and by the way Detroit situation looks.. its all the more appealing for other teams to snatch that pick off charlotte if they are willing to part with it for a star player. Ekhm "Kevin Love"
    I think the no.9 would be more valuable. Good draft, lottery pick. Sure, the 2015 pick has a slim chance to be very high but a slim chance isn't something anyone would trade Kevin Love for.

  16. #234
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    Quote raptors999 wrote: View Post
    Rivalry in the East are prob Wizards, Bobcats then Cavs, 76ers and Magic for the future. Heat, Pacers, BK, Atlanta and Bulls will need to rebuild sooner or later. Bucks, Pistons may suck for a while

    Sent from my Nexus 7 using Tapatalk
    Pacers are a young team. If they can overcome current chemistry issues and key players don't leave via free agency, they'll be around for a long while.

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    Quote BobLoblaw wrote: View Post
    I think the no.9 would be more valuable. Good draft, lottery pick. Sure, the 2015 pick has a slim chance to be very high but a slim chance isn't something anyone would trade Kevin Love for.
    Im not saying that pick alone would get the Love. but its more like a james Harden situation... our lottery pick to Houston sweeten the pot for OKC to pull the trigger.. pure speculation! but they are in a good position... not going to be a contender over this off season but surely they are moving up the standings in the East. Gotta respect them for what they did this year.

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    Age is less a prob than luxury tax cap space small market.They already lost Granger and will need a SG PG to compete with Two max deals already. Slowly they will lose their bench as salaries creep.

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    Quote TRex wrote: View Post
    I wouldn't bet against Kobe if i were you He was averaging 27ppg last year.

    As for free agents, they're rumoured to be interested in Deng. Melo, if he opts out could end up in LA. You never know.

    I also have this weird feeling that the Lakers are going to win the lottery and draft Wiggins.
    No one is questioning Kobe's ability to score when he's healthy, its his ability to stay healthy that seems less promising


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    Quote RaptorsFohEva wrote: View Post
    #fields4mvp
    Yes

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    Can we now stop the non sense about moving DD ?? We need to package Ross with our draft pick and some other assets for a real SF. This is what this team needs.

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    Quote Jamshid wrote: View Post
    Can we now stop the non sense about moving DD ?? We need to package Ross with our draft pick and some other assets for a real SF. This is what this team needs.
    Why can't we keep both and just use fields or something to guard the lebrons and kev durantulas of the league
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