Page 2 of 13 FirstFirst 1 2 3 4 12 ... LastLast
Results 21 to 40 of 243

Thread: DeMar DeRozan: The new Jrue Holiday?

  1. #21
    Raptors Republic Superstar Chr1s1anL's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2011
    Location
    Ottawa, Ontario
    Posts
    4,014
    Post Thanks / Like

    Default DeMar DeRozan: The new Jrue Holiday?

    Quote MACK11 wrote: View Post
    LOOOOOL did you not read the OP?
    Nobody is throwing away DD for nothing
    None of the players you give have mention make this team better though?

    Just leads to more losing.

    Dd is a proven commodity. A proven All-star. You guys want to trade for a guy that might be an All-Star?


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
    @Chr1st1anL

  2. #22
    Raptors Republic Veteran MACK11's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2013
    Location
    ANGERVILLE: Population 1
    Posts
    8,512
    Post Thanks / Like

    Default

    Quote Chr1s1anL wrote: View Post
    None of the players you give have mention make this team better though?

    Just leads to more losing.


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
    Like Whitemen said Id only do this if we can't resign Lowry this offseason
    Because this team without Lowry is stuck in no mans land
    I DONT TRUST PEOPLE WHO WEAR SUNGLASSES AT NIGHT

  3. #23
    Raptors Republic All-Star Yabadabayolo's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2014
    Location
    Kitchener "Sketchener"
    Posts
    1,549
    Post Thanks / Like

    Default

    Quote raptors999 wrote: View Post
    Love is another RFA. Trade him or lose him they may want too rebuild Rubio and DeRozan hoping to resign DD. I don't think its likely but TO giving up DD Ross and picks for one year of love is a desperation move.

    Sent from my Nexus 7 using Tapatalk
    Doooodeeee kev love is not a Rfa. He makes like 15 mil.

  4. #24
    Raptors Republic All-Star Yabadabayolo's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2014
    Location
    Kitchener "Sketchener"
    Posts
    1,549
    Post Thanks / Like

    Default

    Quote Chr1s1anL wrote: View Post
    None of the players you give have mention make this team better though?

    Just leads to more losing.

    Dd is a proven commodity. A proven All-star. You guys want to trade for a guy that might be an All-Star?


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
    I feel you man, I don't know why err body wants to trade him

  5. #25
    Raptors Republic Hall of Famer mcHAPPY's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2010
    Posts
    19,774
    Post Thanks / Like

    Default

    Quote white men can't jump wrote: View Post
    It all depends on Lowry. If he walks, I have no problem shopping DeMar starting this summer. Unfortunately, we may not know Lowry's intent until after the draft. But with Lowry gone, this team can't really make any noise for the next couple of years, so may as well commit to a rebuild.

    If Lowry stays, DeMar's deal is a good one, and fully movable if an amazing offer comes along. And if not, and he decides to opt out before the 4th year of his deal, that's no big deal. We'll have oodles of capspace to work with, and Ross will be around to lock down one of the starting wing spots.

    I don't think Masai needs to feel any pressure to do anything drastic and he can just keep an ear open to options that become available.

    I very strongly doubt that DeMar brings 2 quality lottery picks back in a deal. Not to be forgotten in this comparison with Holiday...NOP has absolutely terrible management, and one of the picks (Nerlens Noel) was in what could easily turn out to be the worst draft in NBA history, and they really didn't protect the 2nd pick (for this year) enough. So if the expectation is to get a 2014 lottery pick and 2015 one as well....I wouldn't get my hopes too high. This draft is still quite strong, and next year's doesn't look bad either. Would need to con a poorly managed team...but many of them have already dealt away this year's or future picks. And if we're talking late-lottery picks, I don't think that's very good value (say two #12s in a row or something).

    If Lowry re-signs and you trade DeMar for picks, you're probably taking a step back for the next couple of years and keeping Lowry at a fairly high price. Why not just let Lowry walk or S&T him? I think if Lowry stays, DeMar is pretty safe here until Masai gets an offer he can't refuse, or DeMar opts out (which he will certainly do if he has another couple years like this).

    This summer could be interesting, it could also be very tame. And I think the key is that Masai doesn't need to do anything drastic. This team is in a good position with assets and flexibility, as well as a fair amount of leverage, even some limited amount with Lowry's situation.

    Also, I feel like Ujiri and Weltman's draft prowess gets super exaggerated. It's still a difficult process. They both have hits and misses, so even if they do a fairly good job, it doesn't mean you can easily replace a starting all-star level player with a couple of picks. So again, no need to feel pressed into doing something.

    I'd actually take the other side.

    I'd rather see Lowry signed at DD money for next 4 seasons.

    I think that keep Raps competitive (ie. playoff team) and opens door for big free agent signing in 2015 or 2016 in addition to draft additions.
    "You donít know the Bruno Caboclo......"
    Bruno Caboclo

    Basketball has clear winners every night --
    except at the draft, which is all homework, politics and chance.

  6. #26
    Raptors Republic Veteran white men can't jump's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2011
    Posts
    8,281
    Post Thanks / Like

    Default

    Quote Chr1s1anL wrote: View Post
    None of the players you give have mention make this team better though?

    Just leads to more losing.

    Dd is a proven commodity. A proven All-star. You guys want to trade for a guy that might be an All-Star?


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
    It's just shooting the shit.

    There are definitely situations where it makes sense to trade DD.

    And there is always risk involved in trying to make your team better, especially in the long run. Often that risk involves trading for picks and hoping you can hit a home run with them.

    But again, as I said in my post, this team really doesn't need to feel pressed to do anything.

    The only shitty thing is if Lowry walks and they have to start shopping DD for future picks (2015 and beyond). Which is definitely a possibility, though I do think this team has a good shot to retain Lowry as well.

  7. #27
    Raptors Republic Veteran white men can't jump's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2011
    Posts
    8,281
    Post Thanks / Like

    Default

    Quote Matt52 wrote: View Post
    I'd actually take the other side.

    I'd rather see Lowry signed at DD money for next 4 seasons.

    I think that keep Raps competitive (ie. playoff team) and opens door for big free agent signing in 2015 or 2016 in addition to draft additions.
    But I think of it like....How happy will Lowry be with a team that is likely to be worse for the next couple of years? Will it make some of his old antagonistic ways resurface? Will this hurt his performance? The team's? Youth development?

    Chemistry can be fragile, and a situation can go south quite fast with the wrong kind of change.

    *EDIT: And even if it doesn't go south, you're paying for prime Lowry when the team is not likely to improve, and then when you can sign someone, you'll probably need to be looking for Lowry's replacement. I just see Lowry and DeMar as very much a package deal at least for the next year or two.
    Last edited by white men can't jump; Sun Apr 6th, 2014 at 06:56 PM.

  8. #28
    Raptors Republic All-Star
    Join Date
    Feb 2014
    Posts
    1,201
    Post Thanks / Like

    Default

    Love is an unrestricted FA in 2015 if he opts out which is worse.

    Sent from my Nexus 7 using Tapatalk

  9. #29
    Raptors Republic Hall of Famer mcHAPPY's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2010
    Posts
    19,774
    Post Thanks / Like

    Default

    Quote white men can't jump wrote: View Post
    But I think of it like....How happy will Lowry be with a team that is likely to be worse for the next couple of years? Will it make some of his old antagonistic ways resurface? Will this hurt his performance? The team's? Youth development?

    Chemistry can be fragile, and a situation can go south quite fast with the wrong kind of change.
    I think there are serious questions keeping Lowry with current core or not.

    As for the team being worse, I'm not sure that happens. Obviously nothing happens in a vacuum and would depend on who else is brought in especially with those imaginary draft picks being returned for DD plus the added financial flexibility of losing DD's $9.5M in 2015 and 2016.
    "You donít know the Bruno Caboclo......"
    Bruno Caboclo

    Basketball has clear winners every night --
    except at the draft, which is all homework, politics and chance.

  10. #30
    Raptors Republic Hall of Famer mcHAPPY's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2010
    Posts
    19,774
    Post Thanks / Like

    Default

    Quote raptors999 wrote: View Post
    Love is an unrestricted FA in 2015 if he opts out which is worse.

    Sent from my Nexus 7 using Tapatalk
    Who is talking about trading for Love?

    Wrong thread.
    "You donít know the Bruno Caboclo......"
    Bruno Caboclo

    Basketball has clear winners every night --
    except at the draft, which is all homework, politics and chance.

  11. #31
    Raptors Republic Hall of Famer mcHAPPY's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2010
    Posts
    19,774
    Post Thanks / Like

    Default

    Quote Yabadabayolo wrote: View Post
    I feel you man, I don't know why err body wants to trade him
    Because as entertaining as this season has been there are higher aspirations.

    No one is saying those aspirations can't be reached with DD.

    The question is does trading him make those aspirations easier or achieved faster.

    I'm not seeing why people take this discussion so personally. Are you a Raptor fan or a DeRozan fan first and foremost?
    "You donít know the Bruno Caboclo......"
    Bruno Caboclo

    Basketball has clear winners every night --
    except at the draft, which is all homework, politics and chance.

  12. Like Shantz liked this post
  13. #32
    Raptors Republic All-Star charlesnba23's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2011
    Location
    Queq'part
    Posts
    1,077
    Post Thanks / Like

    Default

    http://espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=lledwpu

    Joel Anthony, Keith Bogans and Celtics' 1st round draft pick for DeMar. We draft our SF with that pick.

    We only do this if we're sure to get Wiggins or Parker.

  14. #33
    Raptors Republic All-Star OldSkoolCool's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2012
    Posts
    1,187
    Post Thanks / Like

    Default

    Quote Matt52 wrote: View Post
    I wouldn't.

    Monroe can walk in 4 years as UFA.

    The concerns about his play are also a consideration but the main thing is about trying to build a championship team.

    If you have pieces you can essentially guarantee will be around for 8-9 years that gives you a lot of time to find the right chemistry and pieces.

    I feel really good about Weltman's and Ujiri's ability to draft and find players who can contribute right away.
    I agree, 1st or 2nd year guys or draft picks are going to need to be center pieces if we are going to cash in on DeMar.

    I see Denver really needing for a starting shooting guard. I would take next year's pick (heavily protected) plus Gallinari. They might want to get out of Galinari's contract due to his injury prone-ness. We could be a great landing spot for him playing a more half court game and using his skills at the SF.

    I would be willing to use DD as a Holiday-type in that sense....

  15. #34
    Raptors Republic Starter
    Join Date
    Oct 2010
    Location
    Manitoba
    Posts
    517
    Post Thanks / Like

    Default

    Quote Matt52 wrote: View Post
    I've been meaning to start this thread for a week since I read this article but just never got around to it.

    I know I've raised this point along with a couple of other posters before reading this. (Out of curiousity, is the Shantz poster here at RR one and the same with the author of this post?)

    Anyways:






    If you can get a Philly/Holiday type return for DeRozan, I think you have to trade him. Why?

    1) Ross - no Ross doesn't produce like DD but he also isn't the focal like DD. Ross is also a superior defender on the other side of the ball.

    2) Financial flexibility - shedding DD's salary in exchange for rookie contracts will allow the Raptors to be bigger free agent players in 2015 and 2016.

    3) Long term planning and stability - JV and Ross can be Raptors for the next 6-7 seasons. Any draft picks selected by Toronto will be Raptors for 8-9 years if the Raptors choose. DeRozan could walk for nothing in 2 seasons.

    4) Ujiri and Weltman - Fantastic history of identifying talent in the draft.

    5) Ownership - they will pay luxury tax for a winner. The way to do that is not free agency. You are limited. The way to paying luxury tax and keeping a talented core is through Bird Rights. Raptors need to acquire as many pieces as possible that have Bird Rights. It is then you can take advantage of multi-billion dollar ownership pockets.



    This summer is going to be interesting. Masai has said he'd give the team an opportunity to see what they can do. But he has always referred to 2013-14. He has never said anything beyond 2014.


    Considering trading DD for two possible lottery picks is not hating. It is a serious question and if the possibility is out there, I am not sure you can say no.
    Appreciate the link to my article, matt52! I was picked up by HoopsHabit a few months ago and asked to cover the Cavaliers. When my schedule allows for it, I will also write about the Raptors.

    I have absolutely nothing against DeMar and have loved watching his development for the Raptors, particularly this year. He has continually added to his athleticism and become a significant contributor to a winning environment. For this, he was rewarded with an all star appearance. I have to wonder though how high his ceiling is, and therefore how far the current roster can go.

    I don't believe that Ujiri is one to get emotionally attached (blinded?) to his players, and is willing to trade anyone on the roster if he honestly believes that it will eventually bring the Raptors closer to being a championship contender. In one year, DeMar went from being an "overpaid" wing, to being a young all star and one of the top players for his position in the entire league.

    There are teams that have strategically wound up at the bottom of the standings (76ers, Bucks, Magic), but there are others that I believe would consider trading their pick for more immediate success. Lakers would want to compete because they are the Lakers and don't want a grumpy Kobe around. What about Boston? Ainge has made several public statements that he isn't in love with this draft. This may just be public deception on his part, but potentially he honestly doesn't care much for any of the players available.

    The Raptors aren't going to simply give any players away, but would have to consider a godfather type of offer if it could bring them a high potential star. Wiggins, Parker, Embiid, Randle, Exum, Gordon, Vonleh, etc. Ujiri won't be satisfied with being a second tier playoff team.

  16. #35
    Raptors Republic Veteran white men can't jump's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2011
    Posts
    8,281
    Post Thanks / Like

    Default

    Quote charlesnba23 wrote: View Post
    http://espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=lledwpu

    Joel Anthony, Keith Bogans and Celtics' 1st round draft pick for DeMar. We draft our SF with that pick.

    We only do this if we're sure to get Wiggins or Parker.
    People need to stop with this line of thinking....Especially with Wiggins (Wouldn't do it for Parker myself).

    No team is going to trade one of the top 2-3 picks in this draft if it means passing on Wiggins. No GM even close to being in their right mind would think that Wiggins doesn't have a very good chance at being a much much better player than DeMar.

    The ceiling for what pick the Raps could get with someone like DeMar probably is in the most idealistic scenarios 4th or 5th pick (I'd argue probably 5th). And that's still probably extremely unlikely....probably 6-10 range would have to be what you settle for at best.

  17. Like Fully, Mack North, mcHAPPY liked this post
  18. #36
    Raptors Republic Veteran MACK11's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2013
    Location
    ANGERVILLE: Population 1
    Posts
    8,512
    Post Thanks / Like

    Default

    Quote white men can't jump wrote: View Post
    People need to stop with this line of thinking....Especially with Wiggins (Wouldn't do it for Parker myself).

    No team is going to trade one of the top 2-3 picks in this draft if it means passing on Wiggins. No GM even close to being in their right mind would think that Wiggins doesn't have a very good chance at being a much much better player than DeMar.

    The ceiling for what pick the Raps could get with someone like DeMar probably is in the most idealistic scenarios 4th or 5th pick (I'd argue probably 5th). And that's still probably extremely unlikely....probably 6-10 range would have to be what you settle for at best.
    Noah Vonleh !!!!!!!
    I DONT TRUST PEOPLE WHO WEAR SUNGLASSES AT NIGHT

  19. #37
    Raptors Republic All-Star 007's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2014
    Location
    Vancouver, B.C.
    Posts
    2,161
    Post Thanks / Like

    Default

    Quote white men can't jump wrote: View Post
    People need to stop with this line of thinking....Especially with Wiggins (Wouldn't do it for Parker myself).

    No team is going to trade one of the top 2-3 picks in this draft if it means passing on Wiggins. No GM even close to being in their right mind would think that Wiggins doesn't have a very good chance at being a much much better player than DeMar.

    The ceiling for what pick the Raps could get with someone like DeMar probably is in the most idealistic scenarios 4th or 5th pick (I'd argue probably 5th). And that's still probably extremely unlikely....probably 6-10 range would have to be what you settle for at best.
    Also, people should stop viewing the top few picks as gods.

    Not everyone here does it, not all gms do it, but some fans and some (maybe) gms do.

    2014 first round draft picks have ridiculous value.
    The name's Bond, James Bond.

  20. #38
    Raptors Republic Hall of Famer mcHAPPY's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2010
    Posts
    19,774
    Post Thanks / Like

    Default

    Quote charlesnba23 wrote: View Post
    http://espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=lledwpu

    Joel Anthony, Keith Bogans and Celtics' 1st round draft pick for DeMar. We draft our SF with that pick.

    We only do this if we're sure to get Wiggins or Parker.
    Nope.

    Not enough.

    And I can guarantee you the C's say no too for many of the same reasons why I am advocating trading DD if you can get 2 lotto picks (well, one guaranteed and one highly likely).

    Teams like Boston just started to rebuild. You need to target teams such as:

    Cleveland
    Detroit
    Orlando
    Lakers
    Nuggets
    Minnesota


    Those are all teams that:
    1) are or could be trying to win sooner than later,
    2) desperate,
    3) without a foundation that ensures they are ready for it sustained success,
    4) hold other teams draft picks (such as Phoenix with Lakers 2015 pick - i.e. Raps get better pick)
    "You donít know the Bruno Caboclo......"
    Bruno Caboclo

    Basketball has clear winners every night --
    except at the draft, which is all homework, politics and chance.

  21. Like OldSkoolCool liked this post
  22. #39
    Raptors Republic All-Star Yabadabayolo's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2014
    Location
    Kitchener "Sketchener"
    Posts
    1,549
    Post Thanks / Like

    Default

    Quote Matt52 wrote: View Post
    Who is talking about trading for Love?

    Wrong thread.
    He thinks we can trade dd for love and a pick

  23. #40
    Raptors Republic Hall of Famer mcHAPPY's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2010
    Posts
    19,774
    Post Thanks / Like

    Default

    Quote Shantz wrote: View Post
    Appreciate the link to my article, matt52! I was picked up by HoopsHabit a few months ago and asked to cover the Cavaliers. When my schedule allows for it, I will also write about the Raptors.

    I have absolutely nothing against DeMar and have loved watching his development for the Raptors, particularly this year. He has continually added to his athleticism and become a significant contributor to a winning environment. For this, he was rewarded with an all star appearance. I have to wonder though how high his ceiling is, and therefore how far the current roster can go.

    I don't believe that Ujiri is one to get emotionally attached (blinded?) to his players, and is willing to trade anyone on the roster if he honestly believes that it will eventually bring the Raptors closer to being a championship contender. In one year, DeMar went from being an "overpaid" wing, to being a young all star and one of the top players for his position in the entire league.

    There are teams that have strategically wound up at the bottom of the standings (76ers, Bucks, Magic), but there are others that I believe would consider trading their pick for more immediate success. Lakers would want to compete because they are the Lakers and don't want a grumpy Kobe around. What about Boston? Ainge has made several public statements that he isn't in love with this draft. This may just be public deception on his part, but potentially he honestly doesn't care much for any of the players available.

    The Raptors aren't going to simply give any players away, but would have to consider a godfather type of offer if it could bring them a high potential star. Wiggins, Parker, Embiid, Randle, Exum, Gordon, Vonleh, etc. Ujiri won't be satisfied with being a second tier playoff team.


    Good luck in your writing endeavours!

    The bold is spot on.
    "You donít know the Bruno Caboclo......"
    Bruno Caboclo

    Basketball has clear winners every night --
    except at the draft, which is all homework, politics and chance.

  24. Like Shantz liked this post
Page 2 of 13 FirstFirst 1 2 3 4 12 ... LastLast

Thread Information

Users Browsing this Thread

There are currently 1 users browsing this thread. (0 members and 1 guests)

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •