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Thread: JV Arrested for DUI

  1. #221
    Raptors Republic Superstar isaacthompson's Avatar
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    "Oh, everyone's done it once or twice" does not make it okay. Wtf?
    Twitter - @thekid_it

  2. #222
    Super Moderator CalgaryRapsFan's Avatar
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    Quote JawsGT wrote: View Post
    I think the rest of the paragraph after that bold explains why.
    I understand the emotion behind it, but I don't agree with a sports team taking a random stand beyond what the laws say. Typically a first offense is at most a short-term license and possibly vehicle seizure, a small fine and possibly a single year driving probation period (at least here in Alberta). If you got a 1st time DUI charge over the weekend, would you expect the company you work for to punish you further? No, it makes no sense.

    I get that professional athletes and the franchises they work for are in the public sphere, which is why I would prefer outreach to simple punishment. Punishment doesn't help anybody else, which is the exact situation these athlete celebrities are uniquely in. I think having JV talk about his experience with students, as an educational attempt to persuade teens to choose not to drink and drive, would be far more beneficial for the public and much more aligned with the team's commitment to social responsibility.

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  4. #223
    Raptors Republic All-Star stooley's Avatar
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    Quote isaacthompson wrote: View Post
    "Oh, everyone's done it once or twice" does not make it okay. Wtf?
    You're right. It's against the law, and Jonas will pay the legal price.

    Aside:

    A system of consequences built on public perception leads to mob lynchings, witch burnings and inquisitions. So let's keep the rhetoric to a minimum.

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  6. #224
    Raptors Republic All-Star saints91's Avatar
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    I don't condone drinking and driving, and I have lost a person close to me because of it. I'll admit prior to losing that person I had driven after drinking more than I probably should have (not anything excessive though). People make mistakes, and hopefully he learns for this incident. Drunk driving is a problem in Canada, and perhaps needs stricter laws to prohibit it.

    On that note, he has to face the courts just as we would have to. Leave it at that. If the NBA chooses to suspend him after his conviction, as is precedent, than I support that decision. To suspend someone before the legal process has unfolded is unjust. I realize he is in the public spotlight and should be a role model, but he is a 21 year old man who made a mistake. People that live in glass houses shouldn't throw stones.

  7. #225
    Raptors Republic Superstar Axel's Avatar
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    Quote thead wrote: View Post
    Jason Kidd crashed a car into a pole and was belligerent with police and he got 2 games. Also he was 40 and had no excuse. JV is 21, young and dumb and hurt nobody, destroyed nothing and was rude to nobody. Context matters. If the team suspends him there are legal consequences to the team and the players union. This is a NBAPA drugs and alcohol matter...meaning the suspension needs to come from the league
    Plus Jason Kidd has a history (assault) and was just named a Head Coach. Context is very important.

    Quote JawsGT wrote: View Post
    I don't care about jason kidd or the fucking precedent, or what happens in the States. I care about not sharing the fucking road with drunk drivers.
    Well then perhaps you should take your passion, and put it towards the cause and make a difference (MADD Canada perhaps?). Cause posting on a Raptors forum with over-reaction isn't going to help anyone get safer roads. Since this is a basketball site, we can only really discuss the basketball side of it, which follows NBA rules, policies and CBA provisions. So while your passion is to be applauded, this discussion (on the Raps site) needs to follow the realities of the NBA.

  8. #226
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    Quote JawsGT wrote: View Post
    I don't care about jason kidd or the fucking precedent, or what happens in the States. I care about not sharing the fucking road with drunk drivers.
    The Raptors organization is not responsible for the state of drunk drivers in Canada and have no power there, so if you want to adress that issue go to the canadian goverment forums

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  10. #227
    Raptors Republic All-Star JawsGT's Avatar
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    Quote CalgaryRapsFan wrote: View Post
    I understand the emotion behind it, but I don't agree with a sports team taking a random stand beyond what the laws say. Typically a first offense is at most a short-term license and possibly vehicle seizure, a small fine and possibly a single year driving probation period (at least here in Alberta). If you got a 1st time DUI charge over the weekend, would you expect the company you work for to punish you further? No, it makes no sense.

    I get that professional athletes and the franchises they work for are in the public sphere, which is why I would prefer outreach to simple punishment. Punishment doesn't help anybody else, which is the exact situation these athlete celebrities are uniquely in. I think having JV talk about his experience with students, as an educational attempt to persuade teens to choose not to drink and drive, would be far more beneficial for the public and much more aligned with the team's commitment to social responsibility.
    Well that is a good point. My employer would have nothing to say about the situation if this happened to me, unless it was on company time. But boy, would it be great if an employer did (or could do) something to take a stand on the issue, other than releasing a twitter statement. But I guess legally, they probably can't do anything about it. A five game suspension is nothing really.

    Also, the punishments as you listed, are minor, and obviously not enough to discourage the behaviour. It's widespread across the country. And, I think community service is a BS sentence for this situation. If he had killed someone, he would probably be going to jail, so community service because "he didn't hurt anyone" just doesn't cut it for me.

  11. #228
    Raptors Republic All-Star JawsGT's Avatar
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    Quote Axel wrote: View Post
    Plus Jason Kidd has a history (assault) and was just named a Head Coach. Context is very important.



    Well then perhaps you should take your passion, and put it towards the cause and make a difference (MADD Canada perhaps?). Cause posting on a Raptors forum with over-reaction isn't going to help anyone get safer roads. Since this is a basketball site, we can only really discuss the basketball side of it, which follows NBA rules, policies and CBA provisions. So while your passion is to be applauded, this discussion (on the Raps site) needs to follow the realities of the NBA.
    Actually, I'll write and discuss whatever the hell I want here.

  12. #229
    Raptors Republic All-Star JawsGT's Avatar
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    Quote Vykis wrote: View Post
    The Raptors organization is not responsible for the state of drunk drivers in Canada and have no power there, so if you want to adress that issue go to the canadian goverment forums
    Of course they aren't responsible, but that doesn't mean they can't take a stand. If they have no power legally to punish JV directly, then so be it.

  13. #230
    Raptors Republic All-Star stooley's Avatar
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    Quote JawsGT wrote: View Post
    Well that is a good point. My employer would have nothing to say about the situation if this happened to me, unless it was on company time. But boy, would it be great if an employer did (or could do) something to take a stand on the issue, other than releasing a twitter statement. But I guess legally, they probably can't do anything about it. A five game suspension is nothing really.

    Also, the punishments as you listed, are minor, and obviously not enough to discourage the behaviour. It's widespread across the country. And, I think community service is a BS sentence for this situation. If he had killed someone, he would probably be going to jail, so community service because "he didn't hurt anyone" just doesn't cut it for me.
    Like I said... it's really important to our society that this is not the case. We have very smart people who do their best to estimate fair consequences for certain actions.

    There are parties that lobby to increase or decrease those consequences.

    Allowing any individual to punish an offender however he sees fit leads to situations like "mob lynchings, witch burnings and inquisitions." Just because there are a group of people who believe a certain offense merits a certain level of punishment, they are not allowed to wield that power over people.

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  15. #231
    Raptors Republic Superstar Axel's Avatar
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    Quote JawsGT wrote: View Post
    Actually, I'll write and discuss whatever the hell I want here.
    You're right, you are free to, but you run the risk of looking like a lunatic when you start calling for things that go well beyond the precedence of the league. 2 games is what he'll get, because that is what the NBA says it is. You've offer no reason or rationale beyond that (likely because there isn't any).

    If you really are that passionate about the issue, then you should take my suggestion and become an advocate and help make a difference.

  16. #232
    Raptors Republic Rookie Niagara Raptor's Avatar
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    Quote isaacthompson wrote: View Post
    "Oh, everyone's done it once or twice" does not make it okay. Wtf?
    doesn't make it ok, it was a stupid thing to do but no one is hurt and someone shouldn't be condemned for what could of happened
    now if he hit and injured/killed someone then I am there with a pitchfork ready to rake him over the coals but nothing came of his idiocy
    he is a young good kid who made a stupid mistake and im ok forgiving and forgetting as long as this does not become a habit

  17. #233
    Super Moderator CalgaryRapsFan's Avatar
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    Quote JawsGT wrote: View Post
    Well that is a good point. My employer would have nothing to say about the situation if this happened to me, unless it was on company time. But boy, would it be great if an employer did (or could do) something to take a stand on the issue, other than releasing a twitter statement. But I guess legally, they probably can't do anything about it. A five game suspension is nothing really.

    Also, the punishments as you listed, are minor, and obviously not enough to discourage the behaviour. It's widespread across the country. And, I think community service is a BS sentence for this situation. If he had killed someone, he would probably be going to jail, so community service because "he didn't hurt anyone" just doesn't cut it for me.
    I would agree that the theoretical and topical discussions are completely different, but only feel comfortable weighing-in on the JV situation under the constraints of today's laws.

    This situation was a political hot potato during the last provincial election, with the law subsequently being changed to reduce the limit. The argument against such a rule is that the age-old '1 drink an hour' rule of thumb is out the window, so people having a glass of wine or a beer with dinner have no idea if they're driving home legally or not. On the other hand, the penalties for driving while extremely beyond the legal limit (ie: 2, 3 or even 4x) and the penalties for causing significant injury or death, were not increased. I think such change to the law was done to help the new (now ex) Premier gain some PR points (which backfired), but will do absolutely nothing to help improve the safety of our roads, since the people causing the rash of serious incidents were the people who were well over the limit and didn't care at all about the laws. Personally, I think if the legal punishment for causing damage, injury and death were significantly increased, it would act as much more of a deterrent to the casual drinker who decides to avoid the risk. Seriously, is a 3-day license seizure going to stop anybody from having a drink or two when eating out? Nope.

    But I digress, the laws are what they are, which is why I would be opposed to the Raptors organization stepping beyond the rule of law. If you want to see a sports franchise step up to the plate and make such an infraction more serious, or at least show the public that they take such an infraction seriously, then public outreach is probably the best thing they can do. Joe Blow doing community service is not nearly as impactful as JV going around to a bunch of schools in the TO area, talking about the dangers or drunk driving (possibly in partnership with a group like MADD). The Raptors are uniquely positioned to actually make a positive difference out of this mess, but simply punishing JV does none of that.

  18. #234
    Raptors Republic All-Star stooley's Avatar
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    Quote Niagara Raptor wrote: View Post
    doesn't make it ok, it was a stupid thing to do but no one is hurt and someone shouldn't be condemned for what could of happened
    now if he hit and injured/killed someone then I am there with a pitchfork ready to rake him over the coals but nothing came of his idiocy
    he is a young good kid who made a stupid mistake and im ok forgiving and forgetting as long as this does not become a habit
    but the argument goes that a drunk driver is not under sufficient control to ensure that he does not damage property or person. so once they step behind the wheel, both people have committed the same crime.

  19. #235
    Raptors Republic Rookie Niagara Raptor's Avatar
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    Quote stooley wrote: View Post
    but the argument goes that a drunk driver is not under sufficient control to ensure that he does not damage property or person. so once they step behind the wheel, both people have committed the same crime.
    is this a case of morality vs law?
    did he violate the law yes he did and I cannot argue against that ... unless devolving into childish naming calling is acceptable ... you poo head

    but for morality I think its two parts ... the intention and the outcome ... did JV intend to get drunk and hurt someone and I would say no he didn't ... did he hurt anyone? physically or their property ? again no
    so for that im willing to be forgiving

  20. #236
    Raptors Republic Veteran Nilanka's Avatar
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    What do the holy books say on this matter? Let's go with that.
    "I don't lie. I willfully participate in a campaign of misinformation." - Fox Mulder

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  22. #237
    Raptors Republic Rookie Niagara Raptor's Avatar
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    Quote Nilanka wrote: View Post
    What do the holy books say on this matter? Let's go with that.
    what would Thor and Odin say on this matter?

  23. #238
    Raptors Republic All-Star e_wheazhy_'s Avatar
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    Public statement from the man himself:

    "Hello, I am Jonas Valanciunas. I am Lithuanian centre for the Toronto Raptors. I would like to everyone to know that drinking and driving is never good things. That's why I take the bottle with me. That way I can drink as soon as I'm finish driving. I hope everyone can understand this. As the mayor say, "it's was just a drunken stupor!" I apologize once more times and I hope to help the Raptors to many wicktories in the playoffs."
    A key that opens many locks is a master key, but a lock that gets open by many keys is just a shitty lock

  24. #239
    Raptors Republic Veteran rocwell's Avatar
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    Quote e_wheazhy_ wrote: View Post
    Public statement from the man himself:

    "Hello, I am Jonas Valanciunas. I am Lithuanian centre for the Toronto Raptors. I would like to everyone to know that drinking and driving is never good things. That's why I take the bottle with me. That way I can drink as soon as I'm finish driving. I hope everyone can understand this. As the mayor say, "it's was just a drunken stupor!" I apologize once more times and I hope to help the Raptors to many wicktories in the playoffs."
    It's was just a drunken stupor!




  25. #240
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    Quote stooley wrote: View Post
    but the argument goes that a drunk driver is not under sufficient control to ensure that he does not damage property or person. so once they step behind the wheel, both people have committed the same crime.
    The argument is flawed however, since it simply measures the only quantifiable aspect to determine how "drunk" someone is. A hardcore alcoholic would need to blow wayyyyyyy over .08 before they probably have a noticeable impact (like weaving through the road, uncontrolled etc). So tolerance and how you're body handles it is a major factor.

    I'm 6'6 and 230, and don't drink very often. If I'm working on the yard or something a half dozen beer and I could feel fine. Sometimes though I have 2 and you couldn't pay me enough money to get behind a wheel.

    Guess the point I'm making is this: For a big Lithuanian man like Jonas, who probably has some experience drinking, he was probably functioning quite well. I don't think he got behind the wheel thinking he was in any way dangering anyone. And if it weren't for the open beer bottles (Pure idiocy) he probably would've been fine. He admitted to the police he had some drinks and that's what's gonna be his problem.

    So yes he broke the law and in no way is that acceptable, but he didnt (based off of speculation) put anyone in danger the same way Kidd did, and that is huge. I'm thinking a good apology (from what I've read it sounds like he was sincere to his team), a nice donation of his time, and whatever the law decides. I don't think he deserves to be made an example of but should be treated like any hard working 21 year old who made a bad decision and was caught without any damage to anyone. People make mistakes, if you do it reasonably no one should get hurt

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