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Thread: Fix for Tanking

  1. #1
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    Default Fix for Tanking

    Me and my buddy were watching the Raps game talking about the BS of the Nets throwing their last game on purpose. And then that led into a discussion about how to fix real tanking (teams like PHI, etc) in the NBA.

    I think the only way that makes sense is to take a page out of the BPL's book and relegate teams.

    Take the bottom 3 teams in each conference and ship them down to the D-League. Teams 9-12 in each conference would be slotted into the lottery for the top 8 picks, and then the bottom 6 would receive picks 9-14 in order of record.

    This would completely remove the incentive to tank. Teams would lose a ton of revenue if their team was in danger of being sent down to the Developmental League, and this would urge owners and GMs to be as competitive as possible each year to avoid those bottom 6 spots.

    Just an idea, what do you guys think?

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    Quote imanshumpert wrote: View Post
    Me and my buddy were watching the Raps game talking about the BS of the Nets throwing their last game on purpose. And then that led into a discussion about how to fix real tanking (teams like PHI, etc) in the NBA.

    I think the only way that makes sense is to take a page out of the BPL's book and relegate teams.

    Take the bottom 3 teams in each conference and ship them down to the D-League. Teams 9-12 in each conference would be slotted into the lottery for the top 8 picks, and then the bottom 6 would receive picks 9-14 in order of record.

    This would completely remove the incentive to tank. Teams would lose a ton of revenue if their team was in danger of being sent down to the Developmental League, and this would urge owners and GMs to be as competitive as possible each year to avoid those bottom 6 spots.

    Just an idea, what do you guys think?
    Force owners to refund fans all games that were obvious tanks.

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    looool, with the amount of money involved, this is simply an impossible task.
    The best way is: to rank the teams that did not make the play off based on their wins and losses and the team with the best record will get the #1 pick and so on ...

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    Raptors Republic Starter KHD's Avatar
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    Here's how you eliminate "playoff position tanking":

    The top 4 teams get to pick, in order of their finish, from the bottom 4 teams. So, we'd have:

    Indiana picks one of (BRK ATL WAS CHA)
    Miami picks 2nd
    Raps 3
    Bulls 4 (i.e. no choice)

    Then just do the same for the conference semifinals.

    Fucking simple, get your shit together Silver.

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    Quote Jamshid wrote: View Post
    looool, with the amount of money involved, this is simply an impossible task.
    The best way is: to rank the teams that did not make the play off based on their wins and losses and the team with the best record will get the #1 pick and so on ...
    Except you're creating a chasm between good and bad teams. Bad teams don't get the help they need to improve.
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    Quote Jamshid wrote: View Post
    looool, with the amount of money involved, this is simply an impossible task.
    The best way is: to rank the teams that did not make the play off based on their wins and losses and the team with the best record will get the #1 pick and so on ...
    Quote Nilanka wrote: View Post
    Except you're creating a chasm between good and bad teams. Bad teams don't get the help they need to improve.
    You're also encouraging the 8th place team to tank out of the playoffs. If you have the option of playing Miami in the first round as Atlanta, or get the #1 overall pick. No f*cking way you're winning those games.

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    Quote KHD wrote: View Post
    Here's how you eliminate "playoff position tanking":

    The top 4 teams get to pick, in order of their finish, from the bottom 4 teams. So, we'd have:

    Indiana picks one of (BRK ATL WAS CHA)
    Miami picks 2nd
    Raps 3
    Bulls 4 (i.e. no choice)

    Then just do the same for the conference semifinals.

    Fucking simple, get your shit together Silver.
    This is a really bad idea. Why would you ever allow a team to choose their opponent?

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    Only one (Philly) out of 30 teams blatantly tanked this year. Tanking isn't actually as big a problem as everyone has made it out to be.

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    Quote imanshumpert wrote: View Post
    Me and my buddy were watching the Raps game talking about the BS of the Nets throwing their last game on purpose. And then that led into a discussion about how to fix real tanking (teams like PHI, etc) in the NBA.

    I think the only way that makes sense is to take a page out of the BPL's book and relegate teams.

    Take the bottom 3 teams in each conference and ship them down to the D-League. Teams 9-12 in each conference would be slotted into the lottery for the top 8 picks, and then the bottom 6 would receive picks 9-14 in order of record.

    This would completely remove the incentive to tank. Teams would lose a ton of revenue if their team was in danger of being sent down to the Developmental League, and this would urge owners and GMs to be as competitive as possible each year to avoid those bottom 6 spots.

    Just an idea, what do you guys think?

    There isn't enough talent in the D-league for it to work. After a single cycle you would have alternating seasons with D-league teams in the NBA and NBA team in the D-league. It would be like a single season penalty for the legit NBA teams who finish bottom 3. It would kill ticket sales in those vulnerable markets. Basically the owners would never ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever approve it.
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    I don't see a problem with real tanking like Philly did. They had to sacrifice a lot get where they are. Giving away good players for basically nothing, alienating your fan base for an entire season (if they're bad a few more years they may have zero fans), killing your ticket sales (only 68% attendance this year, 2nd worst in NBA).

    There are serious costs to tanking. I don't think you add Wiggins to that team and all of a sudden it is good. More likely they end up like the Cavs struggling for the next 4 years so they can barely miss the playoffs yet again.

    I think the deterrents are already in place, hence why you only saw Philly go full tank giving players away. Milwaukee wanted to be good, they just ended up sucking. Same with Detroit. Boston didn't do anything to replenish their lost players, but they also didn't give guys away just to get worse. Boston just accepted this would be a down year for them, which I don't consider tanking. If Raptors had taken this approach instead of reaching on FA's we wouldn't have been a joke for so long.

    Bottom line, I don't think tanking is an issue that needs to be dealt with.

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    Quote Nilanka wrote: View Post
    Except you're creating a chasm between good and bad teams. Bad teams don't get the help they need to improve.
    I agree. We need to keep the lottery, but change the odds.

    Right now, if you finish last, every ticket in the lottery is a winner.

    You always win a top 4 pick.

    Change it to a more random lottery: give every lottery team 14 down to 1 ball based on their position. Then spin the balls and draw for every pick. On average, worse teams will pick higher. And it is still possible that Philly's tank job would be rewarded with the 12th pick ( meanwhile with only one ball of 105, people who just miss the playoffs have only a tiny chance to pick high).

    Imagine being that GM 'we lost 26 straight but got unlucky in the lottery so only picked 12th', 'and Phoenix fought all the way and picked 8th'. That makes tanking potentially very embarrassing, and possibly career killing. What GM would take that risk?

    Right now they know they will always win the lottery: mix in some losing tickets and see what they do!

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    The only way to fix tanking is have a fantasy draft on all the players and build every team from scratch. Just like in 2k or fantasy basketball.

    That way, the league is more balanced, no super teams thereby more competitive.

    Of course, this is not feasible unfortunately due to many reasons.

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    Quote Jamshid wrote: View Post
    The best way is: to rank the teams that did not make the play off based on their wins and losses and the team with the best record will get the #1 pick and so on ...
    Quote Nilanka wrote: View Post
    Except you're creating a chasm between good and bad teams. Bad teams don't get the help they need to improve.
    I think Jamshid has the right idea. The goal is to promote teams trying to get into the playoffs. However you bring up a solid point about the bottom, they would never improve enough to get near the playoffs because they wont be getting the influx of talent. There is a way to have the best of both worlds

    The top 4 picks of the draft go to the 9th and 10th seeded teams in each conference, sub-ranked within those 4 with the worst of those 4 teams taking number 1. This promotes teams to work hard to get at least to the 9/10 stage, and keep improving their team (however we may see 8th seed teams tank...only drawback of this)

    The rest of the 10 teams are ranked according to record and given picks 5-14 through a lotto.

    Basically the best thing for teams to do is try to just make the playoffs, which will make the bottom half of the league more exciting. Also mediocre teams who have winning programs but lack talent will teach talent better than the dredge teams. Will create a more balanced league with better distribution of talent.

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    I like Bill Simmons idea the best.

    http://grantland.com/features/fixing-the-nba-playoffs/

    Top 7 teams in each conference make the playoffs. The final two seeds are determined by a single elimination tournament of the 16 worst teams ranked by the order of finishing the season (16th worst plays worst, 15th worst plays 2nd worst, etc).

    The playoff teams than are ranked 1-16 and games are played across conferences.

    The lottery format for draft picks are handled like this:

    Worst Six Teams: 9 percent chance of winning
    Worst Teams 7 through 12: 4 percent chance of winning
    Worst Teams 13 through 16: 2 percent chance of winning
    Top 14 teams: 1 percent chance of winning

    Lottery is only for the top 4 picks. After that its based on standings. Every team gets an opportunity for landing in the top 4.

    So no reason to tank. Can still make the playoffs even if you are the worst team in the league. And the bottom six teams each get the same opportunity to win the lottery. Also get a march madness style tournament plus good teams in the West get to play bad teams in the East in the first round (for example).

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    Quote OldSkoolCool wrote: View Post
    I think Jamshid has the right idea. The goal is to promote teams trying to get into the playoffs. However you bring up a solid point about the bottom, they would never improve enough to get near the playoffs because they wont be getting the influx of talent. There is a way to have the best of both worlds

    The top 4 picks of the draft go to the 9th and 10th seeded teams in each conference, sub-ranked within those 4 with the worst of those 4 teams taking number 1. This promotes teams to work hard to get at least to the 9/10 stage, and keep improving their team (however we may see 8th seed teams tank...only drawback of this)

    The rest of the 10 teams are ranked according to record and given picks 5-14 through a lotto.

    Basically the best thing for teams to do is try to just make the playoffs, which will make the bottom half of the league more exciting. Also mediocre teams who have winning programs but lack talent will teach talent better than the dredge teams. Will create a more balanced league with better distribution of talent.
    Well then it's not exactly fixing tanking, is it?

    As ugly as it is, tanking is a legit strategy.
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    Quote planetmars wrote: View Post
    I like Bill Simmons idea the best.

    http://grantland.com/features/fixing-the-nba-playoffs/

    Top 7 teams in each conference make the playoffs. The final two seeds are determined by a single elimination tournament of the 16 worst teams ranked by the order of finishing the season (16th worst plays worst, 15th worst plays 2nd worst, etc).

    The playoff teams than are ranked 1-16 and games are played across conferences.

    The lottery format for draft picks are handled like this:

    Worst Six Teams: 9 percent chance of winning
    Worst Teams 7 through 12: 4 percent chance of winning
    Worst Teams 13 through 16: 2 percent chance of winning
    Top 14 teams: 1 percent chance of winning

    Lottery is only for the top 4 picks. After that its based on standings. Every team gets an opportunity for landing in the top 4.

    So no reason to tank. Can still make the playoffs even if you are the worst team in the league. And the bottom six teams each get the same opportunity to win the lottery. Also get a march madness style tournament plus good teams in the West get to play bad teams in the East in the first round (for example).
    Nice of Bill Simmons to like my idea from earlier this year:

    To reduce the incentive without eliminating a bad teamís chances at a top pick, the motivation needs to be reduced. One method would be to create brackets where a teamís precise finish doesnít matter as much.

    Teams finishing:

    30th-25th 12% chance each
    24th-21th 6% chance each
    20th-17th 1% chance each

    Can A Modified Lottery System Solve The NBA Tanking Problem?

    Why he'd give a playoff team a chance at the top pick is bizarre - the idea is help teams that didn't make the playoffs, not make the rich richer.

    Why he is mixing in how the playoffs work is just making a tough problem to solve overly complicated for zero benefit. Those are 2 separate issues & his idea on the playoffs side has huge holes in it.
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    Quote brothersteve wrote: View Post
    Nice of Bill Simmons to like my idea from earlier this year
    24th-21th 6% chance each
    20th-17th 1% chance each[/INDENT]

    Can A Modified Lottery System Solve The NBA Tanking Problem?
    Don't you mean to say you borrowed Simmons ideas which he has been talking about for years? They're at least 3 years old.

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    Raptors Republic All-Star OldSkoolCool's Avatar
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    Quote planetmars wrote: View Post
    I like Bill Simmons idea the best.

    http://grantland.com/features/fixing-the-nba-playoffs/

    Top 7 teams in each conference make the playoffs. The final two seeds are determined by a single elimination tournament of the 16 worst teams ranked by the order of finishing the season (16th worst plays worst, 15th worst plays 2nd worst, etc).

    The playoff teams than are ranked 1-16 and games are played across conferences.

    The lottery format for draft picks are handled like this:

    Worst Six Teams: 9 percent chance of winning
    Worst Teams 7 through 12: 4 percent chance of winning
    Worst Teams 13 through 16: 2 percent chance of winning
    Top 14 teams: 1 percent chance of winning

    Lottery is only for the top 4 picks. After that its based on standings. Every team gets an opportunity for landing in the top 4.

    So no reason to tank. Can still make the playoffs even if you are the worst team in the league. And the bottom six teams each get the same opportunity to win the lottery. Also get a march madness style tournament plus good teams in the West get to play bad teams in the East in the first round (for example).
    I don't like this, there will still be 6 teams that are looking for that higher percentage, doesn't really solve the problem

    Quote e_wheazhy_ wrote: View Post
    Well then it's not exactly fixing tanking, is it?

    As ugly as it is, tanking is a legit strategy.
    Ya, but the teams that are in 8th are still good teams and might only tank the last 3 games to get a high pick. It is still promoting the entirety of the league to win.

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