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  • #46
    Letter N wrote: View Post
    Except you know, KG is a top 50 player all-time. He's not just a hustle guy, this is a former MVP, Defensive Player of the Year and 9 time All-NBA team guy who is in the final years of his very illustrious career.
    Super heavy on "former." He looks to me like a liability on the Nets right now.

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    • #47
      Puffer wrote: View Post
      Super heavy on "former." He looks to me like a liability on the Nets right now.
      I don't know if I'd go as far as calling him a liability. His offence has degraded to mid-range jumpers and off-ball movement, but it's not like you can leave him alone (like Kendrick Perkins for example). His defence is largely communication and intelligence (he's basically moving the other pieces to do his bidding on D). His defensive rebounding isn't bad as he has good instincts and gets into position but he doesn't get after too many balls.

      Overall, I'd rate him currently has a "C" rate player. Maybe a C+. Which is what I'd probably rate JV right now too (based on the regular season). Obviously JV is trending up and KG trending down, but I don't think JV is a vastly better player today. JV is more athletic but doesn't create a huge match-up problem. KG's jump-shot is valuable in the offence, but isn't something you need to scheme for, which is basically how I feel about JV's offensive role.
      Heir, Prince of Cambridge

      If you see KeonClark in the wasteland, please share your food and water with him.

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      • #48
        It would be funny if it wasn't so frustrating. Coach and everyone else was talking about what was going through their minds when Pierce was left open to launch a potential go ahead three with under 30 seconds left in the last game. Defensive misstep? Take a look at how Garnett is screening Pierce's man. Two hands out at 90 degrees clutching on to him. It's nuts. If someone has the clip, post away

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        • #49
          BigCamB wrote: View Post
          Good call. I mean I personally can't stand him, but I can see where you are coming from, the game needs players like him. It's fun to root against him, and frustrating when his antics get the better of you. All part of the sports experience.
          Exactly. At the very least, regardless of how one may feel about KG, having him and a guy like Pierce playing in this series just makes it that more interesting, entertaining, and challenging.

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          • #50
            Jclaw wrote: View Post
            It would be funny if it wasn't so frustrating. Coach and everyone else was talking about what was going through their minds when Pierce was left open to launch a potential go ahead three with under 30 seconds left in the last game. Defensive misstep? Take a look at how Garnett is screening Pierce's man. Two hands out at 90 degrees clutching on to him. It's nuts. If someone has the clip, post away
            http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=py_spiAD-6s

            It starts at 1:43. That was both holding and an illegal screen lol. Could've been called on either.

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            • #51
              ogi wrote: View Post
              http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=py_spiAD-6s

              It starts at 1:43. That was both holding and an illegal screen lol. Could've been called on either.
              KG knows that's never going to be called at that stage in the game. It's not just the fact that he was once a superstar, it's just how the NBA works in crunch time. They only call moving screens/holding like 10% of the time, so he's smart to play those odds.

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              • #52
                KHD wrote: View Post
                Oh, Zach Lowe was condescending? Colour me surprised.
                Really? Zach Lowe is one of the only (the only?) US national writers who takes an interest in the Raps. I believe his girlfriend is from Toronto, and he's attended games and follows the team.

                He's right in general that a lot of contact goes uncalled in both directions and the foul totals overall have been fairly balanced. Criticism here is also right that KG in particular sets a lot of moving screens - Lowry gets floored multiple times a game, and he's a tough guy who fights hard through screens. In a way everybody's right - this is what needs to change about NBA officiating, and this is probably what never will change about NBA officiating, so get to work and win anyway. Any player or team can build a reputation with the refs, this isn't unique to KG. DeMar now benefits from the work he's put in, for example.
                "We're playing in a building." -- Kawhi Leonard

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                • #53
                  S.R. wrote: View Post
                  Really? Zach Lowe is one of the only (the only?) US national writers who takes an interest in the Raps. I believe his girlfriend is from Toronto, and he's attended games and follows the team.

                  He's right in general that a lot of contact goes uncalled in both directions and the foul totals overall have been fairly balanced. Criticism here is also right that KG in particular sets a lot of moving screens - Lowry gets floored multiple times a game, and he's a tough guy who fights hard through screens. In a way everybody's right - this is what needs to change about NBA officiating, and this is probably what never will change about NBA officiating, so get to work and win anyway. Any player or team can build a reputation with the refs, this isn't unique to KG. DeMar now benefits from the work he's put in, for example.
                  Doesn't mean he isn't condescending from time to time. But yeah, he's a good writer.

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                  • #54
                    S.R. wrote: View Post
                    Really? Zach Lowe is one of the only (the only?) US national writers who takes an interest in the Raps. I believe his girlfriend is from Toronto, and he's attended games and follows the team.

                    He's right in general that a lot of contact goes uncalled in both directions and the foul totals overall have been fairly balanced. Criticism here is also right that KG in particular sets a lot of moving screens - Lowry gets floored multiple times a game, and he's a tough guy who fights hard through screens. In a way everybody's right - this is what needs to change about NBA officiating, and this is probably what never will change about NBA officiating, so get to work and win anyway. Any player or team can build a reputation with the refs, this isn't unique to KG. DeMar now benefits from the work he's put in, for example.
                    ya, but the thing is, in the end, youre still just allowing the final thought to be, "it is, what it is, and that how it will be". Thats simply not good enough. Teams Like Toronto deserve a fair shake. Toronto even MORESO than some of the shitty US markets as toronto is the 4th largest market, AND when they do the CBA, who do you think is one of the heavy hitters in the discussions as they are a profitable franchise...... thats right, Toronto. They respect toronto behind closed doors in a way, then completely hang um to dry on the floor, and in the media.

                    So ya, you have to play through it, and NOBODY ever suggested otherwise, but, the contention that you shouldn't speak out against unfair treatment is absurd to me. It isn't whining, its fighting back. Yeah, you gotta do it on the floor, but you gotta do it off it too.

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                    • #55
                      Superjudge wrote: View Post
                      Teams Like Toronto deserve a fair shake. Toronto even MORESO than some of the shitty US markets as toronto is the 4th largest market, AND when they do the CBA, who do you think is one of the heavy hitters in the discussions as they are a profitable franchise...... thats right, Toronto. They respect toronto behind closed doors in a way, then completely hang um to dry on the floor, and in the media.

                      So ya, you have to play through it, and NOBODY ever suggested otherwise, but, the contention that you shouldn't speak out against unfair treatment is absurd to me. It isn't whining, its fighting back. Yeah, you gotta do it on the floor, but you gotta do it off it too.

                      Disagree with the two bolds. You earn gotta earn. Jack Armstrong said it in one of the podcasts last week. You are going to have to win by 6, just to win by one. All the complaining is just distraction and excuses. Just go out there and beat them. It's a seven game series, you out play the Nets in all seven you'll win your four and advance. You only outplay four times and one of those games you lose because of bad officiating, that's not on the ref's that's on you. Win on the court.

                      Also, grantland and Zach Lowe in particular have more Raps coverage than any other US media, and often when it really wasn't deserved based on on court performance. Also, Zach Lowe is the best basket-ball blogger on the planet, and it's not even close. So when a blogger who actually covers the raps, and has been pretty unbiased if not done right favourable in their coverage, says we need to stop complaining about the refs, I take notice.

                      Complaining about refs is just a way to justify failure.

                      ALSO, it's not like the refs haven't made some bad calls in Toronto's favour. 6:20 left in the forth, Raps up by 1, Lowry draws a charge on Anderson that should have been called a block he didn't beat him to the spot, and his feet were still moving, it was a pretty obvious block, and the Anderson's push off happened AFTER the block. BUT Kyle Lowry is one of the best in the game at drawing charges, and Anderson is a sub. Sometimes the refs just make the wrong call. It MOSTLY evens out over the course of a game/series, and whatever doesn't even out can be overcome by beating the other team.

                      Rant over.
                      "They're going to have to rename the whole conference after us: Toronto Raptors 2014-2015 Northern Conference Champions" ~ ezzbee Dec. 2014

                      "I guess I got a little carried away there" ~ ezzbee Apr. 2015

                      "We only have one rule on this team. What is that rule? E.L.E. That's right's, E.L.E, and what does E.L.E. stand for? EVERYBODY LOVE EVERYBODY. Right there up on the wall, because this isn't just a basketball team, this is a lifestyle. ~ Jackie Moon

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                      • #56
                        But don't you think there is something wonky when you have to earn the right to get a fair shake?

                        I don't necessarily disagree with you, because star players ultimately get the benefit of the doubt. But, I'll just repeat something that whitemencantjump said somewhere in these forums, and that is that the refs should call the play, not the player(s). A foul is a foul and it shouldn't matter who was involved in the play. That type of officiating would be glorious!!

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                        • #57
                          JawsGT wrote: View Post
                          But don't you think there is something wonky when you have to earn the right to get a fair shake?

                          I don't necessarily disagree with you, because star players ultimately get the benefit of the doubt. But, I'll just repeat something that whitemencantjump said somewhere in these forums, and that is that the refs should call the play, not the player(s). A foul is a foul and it shouldn't matter who was involved in the play. That type of officiating would be glorious!!
                          What I'm ok with is that star players get the benefit of the doubt. I don't like it, but I'm ok with it. I'm also ok with the fact that rookies don't usually get their fair share of calls. The fact is, the refs are human and if its not going to be skewed one way, it will be skewed the other way.

                          But that's not what I'm talking about here. What I'm talking about is not "benefit of the doubt" or a "fair shake".

                          What I'm talking about is a guy who is too slow and old to get into the proper position, so he grabs and holds people. He is being proactive in his cheating, while guys like Lebron just get a lot of calls.

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                          • #58
                            Garnett grabbed and held people his whole career.He'll punch you if he think he can get away with it.

                            Sent from my Nexus 7 using Tapatalk

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                            • #59
                              raptors999 wrote: View Post
                              Garnett grabbed and held people his whole career.He'll punch you if he think he can get away with it.

                              Sent from my Nexus 7 using Tapatalk
                              Not if he thought there was a chance you might be able to punch him back.

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                              • #60
                                Puffer wrote: View Post
                                Not if he thought there was a chance you might be able to punch him back.
                                Ding ding ding. Garnett is dirty. Garnett is super hyper competitive. Garnett is definitely not tough.
                                9 time first team all-RR, First Ballot Hall of Forum

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