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Thread: NBA & Refs in Playoffs - RR Conspiracy Theory thread

  1. #61
    Raptors Republic Starter e_wheazhy_'s Avatar
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    Quote jacobdr4 wrote: View Post
    Probably the Demar one because I thought that could of been called a block. The one amir drew on Pierce I felt was definitely a charge. I'm not saying they cant play a big part. But if one team is significantly better throughout the whole series I dont think the refs can have the team they want to win, win.
    Exactly, and I agree 100%. It's the old adage, take the refs out of it. If the raps execute their game plan and play hard, score buckets the refs won't be a factor
    A key that opens many locks is a master key, but a lock that gets open by many keys is just a shitty lock

  2. #62
    Raptors Republic Superstar Superjudge's Avatar
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    The title of this thread is completely offensive. to anyone who has a solid understanding of both the game of basketball, and of the landscape of professional sports, there is nothing even remotely CLOSE to a conspiracy...... there's just reality. Its subtle at times, and at other times, painfully obvious.

  3. #63
    Raptors Republic Superstar Superjudge's Avatar
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    Quote Axel wrote: View Post
    Again, I ask, does this somehow surprise you?

    This type of action isn't new. I think too many Raptors fans don't remember what playoff basketball looks like at times.
    again, fuck that, completely offensive.

    Please tell me I dont know what playoff ball is.

    Please do.......

  4. #64
    Raptors Republic Superstar Superjudge's Avatar
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    Quote e_wheazhy_ wrote: View Post
    One of the charges, not sure which, even as a raptors die hard I know wasn't a charge. Glad we got it and that's definitely not what got us the win. The raps definitely did want it more and that's how it's been all series, the team that lost the previous game wants the next one more.

    As for the bold, it's na´ve to think that the league and refs *cant* play a big part in the momentum and outcome of games. They without a doubt can. Now that's not to say they do, or even have done in this series, but as a basketball fan you must know that refs have a huge impact on the game.
    they were all charges. please tell me why you think they werent'. use the rule book too ok.

    I dont think you have a clue what youre talking about. ever taken a charge, like, a real one, in a real game?

  5. #65
    Raptors Republic Starter e_wheazhy_'s Avatar
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    Quote Superjudge wrote: View Post
    they were all charges. please tell me why you think they werent'. use the rule book too ok.

    I dont think you have a clue what youre talking about. ever taken a charge, like, a real one, in a real game?
    Not selling enough Mercedes Craig? Not my fault dude.

    Yeah I've taken plenty of charges and usually they only get called (correctly) when the defender establishes position (by planting his feet and not moving) and the offensive player charges into him. DeRozans left foot looked to be moving.
    A key that opens many locks is a master key, but a lock that gets open by many keys is just a shitty lock

  6. #66
    Raptors Republic All-Star Letter N's Avatar
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    Quote Superjudge wrote: View Post
    they were all charges. please tell me why you think they werent'. use the rule book too ok.

    I dont think you have a clue what youre talking about. ever taken a charge, like, a real one, in a real game?
    When it's them, it's by the book
    When it's us, it's a conspiracy

  7. #67
    Raptors Republic Superstar Axel's Avatar
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    Quote Superjudge wrote: View Post
    again, fuck that, completely offensive.

    Please tell me I dont know what playoff ball is.

    Please do.......
    Are you complaining about the refs?

    If no, then this comment doesn't apply to you so don't get your panty's in a twist.

    If yes, then perhaps you've forgotten what playoff basketball looks like. Clutching and grabbing is the norm.

    Nothing the refs have called has been a surprise. Bad calls, some good calls; not much going our way. All expected.

    Get over it. Play through it.

  8. #68
    Raptors Republic All-Star stooley's Avatar
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    Quote Superjudge wrote: View Post
    The title of this thread is completely offensive. to anyone who has a solid understanding of both the game of basketball, and of the landscape of professional sports, there is nothing even remotely CLOSE to a conspiracy...... there's just reality. Its subtle at times, and at other times, painfully obvious.
    hahahahahahaa... ha... ha... ha.. oh wait, youre serious?

  9. #69
    Raptors Republic All-Star stooley's Avatar
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    The human brain is designed to recognize patterns, it's how we understand the world.

    Sometimes, it finds patterns in what, actually, is random noise.

  10. #70
    Raptors Republic All-Star Primer's Avatar
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    Sorry to post again, but too many silly responses like the one above about finding random patterns. KG pushing the shit out of JV every time they go for a rebound is an obvious foul that is done right in front of the refs all game and they don't call it, or if they do, it's against JV for no fucking reason. We're not talking about random noise patterns or some shit like that terrible Jim Carrey movie. Just using our eyes while the game is on to see obvious fouls being ignored by the ref, or the blatantly wrong call being made.

    I also find it hilarious that people were saying we should stop complaining since the refs made 3 calls our way at the end. Of course they're all overlooking how painfully obvious those fouls were. They weren't makeup calls, 50/50 calls, close calls, or gifts from the refs, they were just too damn obvious for the refs to ignore that late in the game without causing a huge stink.

    When the phantom calls start coming our way too then I'll gladly shut up about the reffing.

  11. #71
    Raptors Republic All-Star stooley's Avatar
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    Quote Primer wrote: View Post
    Sorry to post again, but too many silly responses like the one above about finding random patterns. KG pushing the shit out of JV every time they go for a rebound is an obvious foul that is done right in front of the refs all game and they don't call it, or if they do, it's against JV for no fucking reason. We're not talking about random noise patterns or some shit like that terrible Jim Carrey movie. Just using our eyes while the game is on to see obvious fouls being ignored by the ref, or the blatantly wrong call being made.

    I also find it hilarious that people were saying we should stop complaining since the refs made 3 calls our way at the end. Of course they're all overlooking how painfully obvious those fouls were. They weren't makeup calls, 50/50 calls, close calls, or gifts from the refs, they were just too damn obvious for the refs to ignore that late in the game without causing a huge stink.

    When the phantom calls start coming our way too then I'll gladly shut up about the reffing.
    The human brain also sometimes has a selective memory.

    It's not a big surprise that raptors fans remember the bad calls on the raptors more so.

    On top of that, our broadcast isn't analyzing the iffy calls that go our way, or generally even showing them to us in slow mo after.

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  13. #72
    Raptors Republic All-Star Letter N's Avatar
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    Quote Primer wrote: View Post
    I also find it hilarious that people were saying we should stop complaining since the refs made 3 calls our way at the end. Of course they're all overlooking how painfully obvious those fouls were. They weren't makeup calls, 50/50 calls, close calls, or gifts from the refs, they were just too damn obvious for the refs to ignore that late in the game without causing a huge stink.
    But if they wanted to be biased they could've called them blocking fouls, it wouldn't have been any more egregious of a call then any of the other bad calls in the series. Calling a foul on that D-Will drive at the end of Game 3 didn't cause that big a stink and that was a bad call.

    Why do you believe it's obvious when it happens for us and it's biased when it happens against us? Why is it more plausible for you to believe that it's a well coordinated command coming from up high and not just mistakes being made by people in a high pressure job?

  14. #73
    Raptors Republic All-Star stooley's Avatar
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    Quote Primer wrote: View Post
    Sorry to post again, but too many silly responses like the one above about finding random patterns. KG pushing the shit out of JV every time they go for a rebound is an obvious foul that is done right in front of the refs all game and they don't call it, or if they do, it's against JV for no fucking reason. We're not talking about random noise patterns or some shit like that terrible Jim Carrey movie. Just using our eyes while the game is on to see obvious fouls being ignored by the ref, or the blatantly wrong call being made.

    I also find it hilarious that people were saying we should stop complaining since the refs made 3 calls our way at the end. Of course they're all overlooking how painfully obvious those fouls were. They weren't makeup calls, 50/50 calls, close calls, or gifts from the refs, they were just too damn obvious for the refs to ignore that late in the game without causing a huge stink.

    When the phantom calls start coming our way too then I'll gladly shut up about the reffing.
    If your avatar is real I take back everything I've ever said or thought I knew.

  15. #74
    Raptors Republic Veteran Nilanka's Avatar
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    Quote stooley wrote: View Post
    The human brain is designed to recognize patterns, it's how we understand the world.

    Sometimes, it finds patterns in what, actually, is random noise.
    Someone's been watching Cosmos
    "I don't lie. I willfully participate in a campaign of misinformation." - Fox Mulder

  16. #75
    Raptors Republic All-Star stooley's Avatar
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    Quote Nilanka wrote: View Post
    Someone's been watching Cosmos
    Hahaha, actually, I have been.

    But I learned that from The Signal and the Noise by Nate Silver: http://www.amazon.ca/The-Signal-Nois.../dp/159420411X

    Really good read, for anyone who cares for that kind of stuff.

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  18. #76
    Raptors Republic All-Star Raptorsnz's Avatar
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    Quote Superjudge wrote: View Post
    they were all charges. please tell me why you think they werent'. use the rule book too ok.

    I dont think you have a clue what youre talking about. ever taken a charge, like, a real one, in a real game?
    You complain about everything being offensive then you go and say this? Are you serious?

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  20. #77
    Raptors Republic All-Star Primer's Avatar
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    Quote Letter N wrote: View Post
    But if they wanted to be biased they could've called them blocking fouls, it wouldn't have been any more egregious of a call then any of the other bad calls in the series. Calling a foul on that D-Will drive at the end of Game 3 didn't cause that big a stink and that was a bad call.

    Why do you believe it's obvious when it happens for us and it's biased when it happens against us? Why is it more plausible for you to believe that it's a well coordinated command coming from up high and not just mistakes being made by people in a high pressure job?
    You're avoiding addressing my main point. Which is the obvious mugging of JV under the basket, the htting DD and Lowry in the face, ect... I'm talking about the no calls, which are plainly obvious on the TNT feed and even pointed out by the announcing crew "Oh wow, looks like they missed that push by Garnett". I can't respond to a post that completely ignored mine and just repeated the same stuff you've being saying all thread.

    I'm not trying to split hairs on blocking/charge calls. I'm talking about obvious fouls right in front of the refs that they are actively ignoring, despite being 2 feet away looking right at it.

    They make one correct charge call and you guys try to use it as proof the refs aren't biased. Fucking unbelievable.

  21. #78
    Raptors Republic All-Star stooley's Avatar
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    Quote Primer wrote: View Post
    You're avoiding addressing my main point. Which is the obvious mugging of JV under the basket, the htting DD and Lowry in the face, ect... I'm talking about the no calls, which are plainly obvious on the TNT feed and even pointed out by the announcing crew "Oh wow, looks like they missed that push by Garnett". I can't respond to a post that completely ignored mine and just repeated the same stuff you've being saying all thread.

    I'm not trying to split hairs on blocking/charge calls. I'm talking about obvious fouls right in front of the refs that they are actively ignoring, despite being 2 feet away looking right at it.

    They make one correct charge call and you guys try to use it as proof the refs aren't biased. Fucking unbelievable.
    Well I'm gonna go ahead and say that the burden of proof should be on you, given the many incentives related to not turning the league into a giant fraud.

    A few missed calls are just that. Some calls get missed.

    It's hardly proof for bias. Unless you can demonstrate a consistent trend in which calls for us are ignored and calls for Brooklyn are exaggerated, I don't buy the bias.

    Picking out a few calls and pointing to them as you say "see, bias", is called using anecdotal evidence.

    Personally, I think it's much more likely given the context that those calls are mistakes as opposed to a leaguewide conspiracy (which would necessarily involve either Tim Leiweke or Rogers and Bell, given that the commish works for the owners).

    I'd add: if you're able to demonstrate that, I'd recommend sending it in to sportsnet, the globe, tsn and the sun, I'm sure you'd get paid well, even if you only show a clear bias in this one series. If a reporter were to uncover a leaguewide conspiracy, he'd make bank.

  22. #79
    Raptors Republic All-Star stooley's Avatar
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    I know I'll regret posting this... but I have a problem with impulse control.

    People keep saying that the league has an incentive to fix series.

    That's absurdity!

    Let's take a look at that from a game theory perspective (which deals with rational thought, decision making and maximizing payoffs).

    What is the extra payoff for Brooklyn advancing? 1% of the league's annual revenue? I'd say that's being generous.

    What is the loss if evidence is ever uncovered of WWE match fixing? Probably close to 80% of the league's total value. At the very, very least, 50%.

    So to decide whether it is profitable to set up a top down conspiracy, the league has to assume (using very generous figures in both circumstances) that there is less than a 2% chance that anyone ever finds out about it.

    If that conspiracy were to exist, necessarily, refs and owners would have to be a part of it.

    So, under what circumstances could that information be revealed? If Donald Sterling is treated, in his mind, too harshly, does he talk? If any other owners become disgruntled over unfair treatment of their franchise, do they talk (probably not, but they could use it as leverage with the league, to either erase the conspiracy or be on the favourable end of it).

    In 2013-2014, the following people were official NBA referees:

    No. 6 Tony Brown (12th Season)
    No. 7 Derrick Stafford (26th Season)
    No. 8 Marc Davis (16th Season)
    No. 10 Ron Garretson (27th Season)
    No. 11 Derrick Collins (13th Season)
    No. 12 Violet Palmer (17th Season)
    No. 13 Monty McCutchen (21st Season)
    No. 14 Ed Malloy (12th Season)
    No. 15 Bennett Salvatore (32nd Season)
    No. 16 David Guthrie (9th Season)
    No. 17 Joe Crawford (37th Season)
    No. 18 Matt Boland (11th Season)
    No. 19 James Capers (19th Season)
    No. 20 Leroy Richardson (19th Season)
    No. 22 Bill Spooner (25th Season)
    No. 23 Jason Phillips (14th Season)
    No. 24 Mike Callahan (24th Season)
    No. 25 Tony Brothers (20th Season)
    No. 26 Pat Fraher (13th Season)
    No. 27 Dick Bavetta (39th Season)
    No. 28 Zach Zarba (11th Season)
    No. 29 Mark Lindsay (7th Season)
    No. 30 John Goble (7th Season)
    No. 31 Scott Wall (19th Season)
    No. 32 Eddie F. Rush (27th Season)
    No. 33 Sean Corbin (19th Season)
    No. 34 Kevin Cutler (4th Season)
    No. 35 Kane Fitzgerald (5th Season)
    No. 36 David Jones (25th Season)
    No. 37 Eric Dalen (6th Season)
    No. 38 Michael Smith (21st Season)
    No. 40 Leon Wood (18th Season)
    No. 41 Ken Mauer (28th Season)
    No. 42 Eric Lewis (10th Season)
    No. 43 Dan Crawford (29th Season)
    No. 44 Eli Roe (9th Season)
    No. 45 Brian Forte (7th Season)
    No. 46 Ben Taylor (1st Season)
    No. 47 Bennie Adams (19th Season)
    No. 48 Scott Foster (20th Season)
    No. 49 Tom Washington (23rd Season)
    No. 50 Olandis Poole (10th Season)
    No. 52 Scott Twardoski (3rd Season)
    No. 54 Nick Buchert (4th Season)
    No. 55 Bill Kennedy (16th Season)
    No. 56 Mark Ayotte (10th Season)
    No. 58 Josh Tiven (4th Season)
    No. 59 Gary Zielinski (13th Season)
    No. 60 James Williams (4th Season)
    No. 61 Courtney Kirkland (14th Season)
    No. 63 Derek Richardson (17th Season)
    No. 65 Sean Wright (9th Season)
    No. 66 Haywoode Workman (6th Season)
    No. 68 Marat Kogut (5th Season)
    No. 70 Brent Barnaky (4th Season)
    No. 71 Rodney Mott (17th Season)
    No. 72 J.T. Orr (3rd Season)
    No. 73 Tre Maddox (3rd Season)
    No. 74 Curtis Blair (6th Season)
    No. 76 Steve Anderson (1st Season)
    No. 77 Karl Lane (3rd Season)
    No. 79 Kevin Scott (3rd Season)

    That's a lot of people to keep happy for the rest of their lives.

    Even an angry wife, disgruntled girlfriend, mistreated intern etc, could easily access evidence of this if they were so inclined.

    Given that the NSA couldn't keep Edward Snowden quiet, how confident is the NBA? Probably less than 98%.

    Supposedly, this conspiracy happens either incredibly frequently every year, or the Raptors are the sole target, both of which force me to stretch my suspension of disbelief even further.
    Last edited by stooley; Tue Apr 29th, 2014 at 02:33 PM.

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  24. #80
    Raptors Republic Starter 3inthekeon's Avatar
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    To further stooleys point, why would NBA owners, the majority of whom are NOT large market teams that would benefit from this conspiracy, allow such a thing to happen? Having money stolen from their pockets is simply not something they would allow.

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