NBA & Refs in Playoffs - RR Conspiracy Theory thread

[white men can't jump]

To call the game well, they'd need 5 refs on the court. Matchups have to be watched constantly, or else calls get made on the aftermath and not on the actual foul.

Flopping happens in basketball and soccer because the refs are undermanned, and it's also the reason the reffing is terrible.

Don't agree. The surface is small in basketball. 3 men is plenty because you can catch all the angles very well. They won't catch everything but as a former ref, I can't believe some of the bad calls they make because if they have even close to adequate training it's inexcusable.

The most obvious example in this series is the loose ball foul JV got for being pushed by Garnett. There's no way a ref could be watching the play well enough to call that without seeing what led to it. There's no excuse for reffing that bad. And there's no "KG has earned it" argument that makes sense for such a bad call. Either the guy wasn't looking at the play and thus shouldn't blow his whistle, or he delibaretly made the wrong call....both are unacceptable.

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[stooley]

Don't agree. The surface is small in basketball. 3 men is plenty because you can catch all the angles very well. They won't catch everything but as a former ref, I can't believe some of the bad calls they make because if they have even close to adequate training it's inexcusable.

The most obvious example in this series is the loose ball foul JV got for being pushed by Garnett. There's no way a ref could be watching the play well enough to call that without seeing what led to it. There's no excuse for reffing that bad. And there's no "KG has earned it" argument that makes sense for such a bad call. Either the guy wasn't looking at the play and thus shouldn't blow his whistle, or he delibaretly made the wrong call....both are unacceptable.

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That call sucked, and there's no excuse for that, but the majority are really tough.

I'd say, likely, the guy wasn't looking at the play. The actual contact happened over a split second. I'd not be surprised if flailing arms caught his attention, and the ref did the best he could.

Basketball is different than soccer in that the area is much smaller and there are 3 refs already, BUT the reason I compared them is that the calls in basketball are so ambiguous, contextual and nuanced, that the two sport suffer from the same problem: too few eyes to accurately call the game. The refs are watching feet, shoulders, arms and have to make calls that I often find hard to make even in slow motion.

[white men can't jump]

That call sucked, and there's no excuse for that, but the majority are really tough.

I'd say, likely, the guy wasn't looking at the play. The actual contact happened over a split second. I'd not be surprised if flailing arms caught his attention, and the ref did the best he could.

Basketball is different than soccer in that the area is much smaller and there are 3 refs already, BUT the reason I compared them is that the calls in basketball are so ambiguous, contextual and nuanced, that the two sport suffer from the same problem: too few eyes to accurately call the game. The refs are watching feet, shoulders, arms and have to make calls that I often find hard to make even in slow motion.

Not too few eyes to call the games better than they have been though.

The hardest part is usually catching foot position. That's why the block/charge is considered toughest. But you're trained to look for different things in different action. It is a tough sport to ref, but I just can't believe how poor it is in the NBA. It can definitely improve.

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[Letter N]

To call the game well, they'd need 5 refs on the court. Matchups have to be watched constantly, or else calls get made on the aftermath and not on the actual foul.

Flopping happens in basketball and soccer because the refs are undermanned, and it's also the reason the reffing is terrible.

I disagree. The more people you add the less consistent and the higher the overall amount of calls. It also forces refs to make certain calls they wouldn't simply to not be shown up by another ref or have their authority questioned.

If anything the answer is to go less refs, even down to 1.

[stooley]

I disagree. The more people you add the less consistent and the higher the overall amount of calls. It also forces refs to make certain calls they wouldn't simply to not be shown up by another ref or have their authority questioned.

If anything the answer is to go less refs, even down to 1.

Fair enough. But then, is there a solution?

Maybe these games have been exceptionally bad, as white men pointed out, but I really think 3 refs trying to catch the smallest movements made by 10 players constantly jostling for position is bound to whiff on some calls.

Basketball is a non-contact sport in which contact happens all the time, I can't imagine it's easy to catch what crosses that line in real time, especially when the refs can't even see over the players' shoulders.

[Letter N]

Fair enough. But then, is there a solution?

Maybe these games have been exceptionally bad, as white men pointed out, but I really think 3 refs trying to catch the smallest movements made by 10 players constantly jostling for position is bound to whiff on some calls.

Basketball is a non-contact sport in which contact happens all the time, I can't imagine it's easy to catch what crosses that line in real time, especially when the refs can't even see over the players' shoulders.

True.

It's hard for me to argue it because I'm from the mindset that refs should swallow their whistles in the playoffs. I think too much ticky tack shit gets called now a days and I hate it. I also think they should take away allowing charges inside the paint, it's bullshit how everytime someone drives a player just jumps in front and takes a charge, that's not the point of the charge rule.

I can understand people disagreeing with me, but I just don't care for this 60 FTs a game NBA.
Bring back the no blood, no foul rule!

[2kfeen]

Is Toronto going to lose this series because of 'basketball reasons'?

The NBA is a business.
They want to see the best matchups that will lead to the most revenue.
Plus, they want to please the owners of NBA teams.

Nets owner Prokhorov, who is gonna pay a luxury tax bill alone of $80 million to the league account. Wouldn't Adam Silver want to please the league's biggest spender and give him a little reward and have him move to the 2nd round rather than embarrass him with a 1st round exit to the Raptors?

Moreover, a 2nd round matchup of Brooklyn-Miami is a lot more marketable and would get way more viewers than the Raps-Heat, especially considering Raps have not won a game against Miami since the Big 3's inception. While BKN has won 4 on the Heat just this season. In terms of money, more viewers + money involved with BK-Heat compared to Raps.

Look I love the Raptors, but even my dad is predicting this games and he can barely pronounce Lebron James.
Obviously the NBA is going to extend this series to nets in 7 (i predicted 6, but hey, we'll see what happens).

The way they are extending this series is just childish at best
Look at all those offensive fouls last night in the clutch. Amir Johnson was clearly moving and they called offensive foul on Pierce? BS and I'm a Raptors fan still

I really want the Raptors to win the fucking NBA Finals but since they don't have a marketable star big name like Kevin Love, Durant, Lebron, Kobe, Chris Paul, Blake Griffin, James Harden, Paul George etc they are not gonna get any love

[jacobdr4]

The NBA is a business.
They want to see the best matchups that will lead to the most revenue.
Plus, they want to please the owners of NBA teams.

Nets owner Prokhorov, who is gonna pay a luxury tax bill alone of $80 million to the league account. Wouldn't Adam Silver want to please the league's biggest spender and give him a little reward and have him move to the 2nd round rather than embarrass him with a 1st round exit to the Raptors?

Moreover, a 2nd round matchup of Brooklyn-Miami is a lot more marketable and would get way more viewers than the Raps-Heat, especially considering Raps have not won a game against Miami since the Big 3's inception. While BKN has won 4 on the Heat just this season. In terms of money, more viewers + money involved with BK-Heat compared to Raps.

Look I love the Raptors, but even my dad is predicting this games and he can barely pronounce Lebron James.
Obviously the NBA is going to extend this series to nets in 7 (i predicted 6, but hey, we'll see what happens).

The way they are extending this series is just childish at best
Look at all those offensive fouls last night in the clutch. Amir Johnson was clearly moving and they called offensive foul on Pierce? BS and I'm a Raptors fan still

I really want the Raptors to win the fucking NBA Finals but since they don't have a marketable star big name like Kevin Love, Durant, Lebron, Kobe, Chris Paul, Blake Griffin, James Harden, Paul George etc they are not gonna get any love

I would definitely disagree on that last charge. Looked like a great charge by amir Johnson to me. Definitely was set even though Garnett was trying to push him into pierce. The demar one was a little iffy but If your playing tough d your gonna get the call.

I dont think they are extending the series at all, the raptors just finished strong. I think its childish to suggest that the refs and the nba can play that big of a part. The raptors just wanted the win more and thats why they won.

If your expecting the finals this year than your expectations are a little crazy. This team is a second round team at best and just got to enjoy it.

[2kfeen]

Nah i don't expect the finals im not delusional haha
it would be a dream if they make the finals, but we both know that's not happening LOL

[Letter N]

If you honestly think this is what is happening then why watch?

Watch NCAA, watch Euroball, watch CIS, there are other options if you legitimately believe that the NBA is just the WWF with a round ball.

[KeonClark]

The NBA is a business.
They want to see the best matchups that will lead to the most revenue.
Plus, they want to please the owners of NBA teams.

Nets owner Prokhorov, who is gonna pay a luxury tax bill alone of $80 million to the league account. Wouldn't Adam Silver want to please the league's biggest spender and give him a little reward and have him move to the 2nd round rather than embarrass him with a 1st round exit to the Raptors?

Moreover, a 2nd round matchup of Brooklyn-Miami is a lot more marketable and would get way more viewers than the Raps-Heat, especially considering Raps have not won a game against Miami since the Big 3's inception. While BKN has won 4 on the Heat just this season. In terms of money, more viewers + money involved with BK-Heat compared to Raps.

Look I love the Raptors, but even my dad is predicting this games and he can barely pronounce Lebron James.
Obviously the NBA is going to extend this series to nets in 7 (i predicted 6, but hey, we'll see what happens).

The way they are extending this series is just childish at best
Look at all those offensive fouls last night in the clutch. Amir Johnson was clearly moving and they called offensive foul on Pierce? BS and I'm a Raptors fan still

I really want the Raptors to win the fucking NBA Finals but since they don't have a marketable star big name like Kevin Love, Durant, Lebron, Kobe, Chris Paul, Blake Griffin, James Harden, Paul George etc they are not gonna get any love

Sigh...have you been on these boards lately? You're really beating a dead horse. And to suggest the refs handed us the game because of a missed screen? Everybody I know was talking about the refs screwing us again, so which way is it?

Your concerns are real, im paranoid too, but looking at every missed call as a conspiracy in the making is just silly. Toronto fans have gotten so caught up its like you forget refs are human. Calls have been blown for over 100 years, in every sport, sometimes brutally. And maybe it wasn't the nba overlords playing with our heads like chess pieces. Maybe it was what it was..a human got a call wrong in a game going 100 miles an hour.

[007]

I really want the Raptors to win the fucking NBA Finals but since they don't have a marketable star big name like Kevin Love, Durant, Lebron, Kobe, Chris Paul, Blake Griffin, James Harden, Paul George etc they are not gonna get any love

So we won't get love without Love?

[e_wheazhy_]

I would definitely disagree on that last charge. Looked like a great charge by amir Johnson to me. Definitely was set even though Garnett was trying to push him into pierce. The demar one was a little iffy but If your playing tough d your gonna get the call.

I dont think they are extending the series at all, the raptors just finished strong. I think its childish to suggest that the refs and the nba can play that big of a part. The raptors just wanted the win more and thats why they won.

If your expecting the finals this year than your expectations are a little crazy. This team is a second round team at best and just got to enjoy it.

One of the charges, not sure which, even as a raptors die hard I know wasn't a charge. Glad we got it and that's definitely not what got us the win. The raps definitely did want it more and that's how it's been all series, the team that lost the previous game wants the next one more.

As for the bold, it's naïve to think that the league and refs *cant* play a big part in the momentum and outcome of games. They without a doubt can. Now that's not to say they do, or even have done in this series, but as a basketball fan you must know that refs have a huge impact on the game.

[jacobdr4]

One of the charges, not sure which, even as a raptors die hard I know wasn't a charge. Glad we got it and that's definitely not what got us the win. The raps definitely did want it more and that's how it's been all series, the team that lost the previous game wants the next one more.

As for the bold, it's naïve to think that the league and refs *cant* play a big part in the momentum and outcome of games. They without a doubt can. Now that's not to say they do, or even have done in this series, but as a basketball fan you must know that refs have a huge impact on the game.

Probably the Demar one because I thought that could of been called a block. The one amir drew on Pierce I felt was definitely a charge. I'm not saying they cant play a big part. But if one team is significantly better throughout the whole series I dont think the refs can have the team they want to win, win.

[white men can't jump]

Probably the Demar one because I thought that could of been called a block. The one amir drew on Pierce I felt was definitely a charge. I'm not saying they cant play a big part. But if one team is significantly better throughout the whole series I dont think the refs can have the team they want to win, win.

The DeMar one wasn't a charge for having feet set. And it was certainly the more iffy of the two. But JJ had his arm up high, and in real time I could easily see how an official would view it as an elbow or at least illegal push off with the arm. That's a tough call to make as it happens. Those aren't the calls you get upset about (if they went against you) that much because those are legitimately hard to make. It's the calls that really should be no brainers if the ref is competent at all that get to you.