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Thread: waaait. so the playoffs don't reseed? YOU GOTTA BE KIDDING ME!

  1. #21
    Raptors Republic All-Star Raptorsnz's Avatar
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    Quote CashGameND wrote: View Post
    thankyou. Just because I love other sports, and don't follow NBA in depth to know about a reseeding format for the 2nd round doesn't mean I'm any less a Raptors fan then anyone here. I love this team & never miss a game. Yes I don't have great knowledge of the NBA playoff format, which is why this terrible format of not reseeding shocked me so much. Surprised people don't seem to care. But it has HUUUUUGE implications. Indiana getting eliminated SHOULD mean we play the Wizards instead of the Heat. Instead Wizards would get to play the Hawks for a chance to go to conference finals. Thats insane.
    You could easily argue that since the Hawks upset the Pacers they deserve to vs the Wizards since it was so much harder than us beating the Nets (You have to imagine the Pacers actually played like a number 1 seed)

  2. #22
    Raptors Republic Veteran white men can't jump's Avatar
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    Quote CashGameND wrote: View Post
    whaaa? Clearly you don't know what I mean by reseeding.

    it means that in round 2 they reseed the matchups based on their rankings. Instead of forcing the matchups through the set brackets from the beginning.

    example:
    winners of round 1: - 1Heat, 3Raptors, 5Wizards, 8Hawks.
    RESEEDING WOULD BE: 1heat vs 8hawks (thus giving the team with the best record in the regular season the biggest advantage in the 2nd round, which in my mind makes the most sense). 3raptors vs 5wizards
    NBA / NON-RESEEDING FORMAT: 1heat vs 3raptors / 5wizards vs 8hawks
    I know exactly what you mean. Clearly you don't understand the concept of "reward". Re-seeding gives an unfair advantage/disadvantage scenario based on seeding. Bracketing ensures things in a way where...

    -IF all teams play up to their position, re-seeding is a non-starter as an argument (1 plays 4, 2 plays 3, 1 ends up playing winner of 2 vs 3...etc)
    -IF a team outperforms a supposedly better team, they get that bracket, and that path which balances the strength of schedule for each team. And thus is also more likely to result in exciting rounds with more competitive matchups.

    See Fanchie's post

    **EDIT: And again, the reward for higher seeds is homecourt advantage, which is very real. They already have an inherent advantage in their schedule, but they deserve more? I don't think so.
    Last edited by white men can't jump; Mon Apr 28th, 2014 at 11:08 PM.

  3. #23
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    Quote Fanchie wrote: View Post
    Reseeding is the worst and most unfair idea in sports. Imagine you're a Hawks fan, you see your team upsetting the #1 seed and for what? Having to play #2 right after? That is not how sports should work. You beat the #1s, you get their bracket, that's just fair.

    Why is March madness so thrilling? Cause they don't reseed. Cause you know that no matter how low your seed is, you're one upset away from an open bracket.

    And BTW, if you're pro-reseeding, you must be against conferences, right? Otherwise, I'd love to hear how you think it's fair that with our 11th best record among playoffs teams, we get to play the 14th best (and 3rd worst) team.
    March Madness is completely different because there are SOOOOOOO many teams in a single game elimination format. And the reason its so exciting is definitely the cinderella story, I agree.

    As for the comment about conferences. Reseeding amongst conference still makes sense because you build your rivalries in a conference. You play the majority of your games vs other teams in your conference & then battle it out with them to get to the finals. If you had a league format where everybody played every team an equal amount of games then I'd agree on just reseeding the entire league, but leagues don't build themselves like that in order to build rivalries amongst both the teams & fan bases. And also for fan familiarity, to become more familiar with the 16 teams in your conference better, you have better knowledge of the teams/players you are facing & you are more intrigued with the matchup. If you played vs a team you only saw 2 times all year it wouldn't be as intriguing playing a team that you don't know as much about & don't have much of a history or rivalry against.

    as for your comment (the hawks beat the pacers so they should get their bracket the rest of the way). I disagree. Styles make fights (or matchups in this case). Just because a team has the style to beat a team doesn't mean they should just earn the #2 seed for the win. I think the team that earns their ranking over the course of an 82 game season has done way more to get the better placement in round 2 then the team that did well for one 7 game series.
    Last edited by CashGameND; Mon Apr 28th, 2014 at 11:10 PM.

  4. #24
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    Quote Raptorsnz wrote: View Post
    I think the fact this has never really been an issue in the NBA shows how it's not very important. Upsets are rare enough if the NBA that it usually doesn't come into effect anyway. Both the Pacers and Heat were awful to end the season, it's just that only one team has picked it up in the playoffs.
    The upsets only make the nba even more interesting, the lower seeded team has earned that next round and should play the 4/5 team rather than having to play that number 2 team. I dont really want the format to change, this year has been amazing so many close matchups
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    Quote white men can't jump wrote: View Post
    I know exactly what you mean. Clearly you don't understand the concept of "reward". Re-seeding gives an unfair advantage/disadvantage scenario based on seeding. Bracketing ensures things in a way where...

    -IF all teams play up to their position, re-seeding is a non-starter as an argument (1 plays 4, 2 plays 3, 1 ends up playing winner of 2 vs 3...etc)
    -IF a team outperforms a supposedly better team, they get that bracket, and that path which balances the strength of schedule for each team. And thus is also more likely to result in exciting rounds with more competitive matchups.

    See Fanchie's post

    **EDIT: And again, the reward for higher seeds is homecourt advantage, which is very real. They already have an inherent advantage in their schedule, but they deserve more? I don't think so.
    basically what it boils down to is what is valued more, the team that did it over the course of an 82 game season, or the team that pulled off the upset in 1 round of the playoffs. I guess my mind has been far more trained to think the team that earned it over the course of the regular season deserves it way more then a team that had 1 good round (like I said, styles make fights analaogy. A team could be built to take out a particular team, high seed, but still over the course of a season vs all other teams, may not really be all that great.) Which is, in my mind, why they don't deserve to suddenly get an easy round 2 matchup. gotta prove it all year).

    Another reason that the reseeding format is nice is for the excitement it brings to other series. Like for me, I was so excited to see what was happening in the Pacers & Heat series in hopes that 1 of the teams would be upset so we could face a lower ranked team in round 2. Now I know my only hope was the Bobcats, and that the other series didnt have any impact on who the Raptors face in round 2.

  6. #26
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    sooooo disappointed we coulda been facing wizards in round 2 and have a GREAT shot at getting to the conference finals. (if we win, and pacers get upset of course)

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    PLUS. I've been looking at this mostly from a Raptors fan perspective. What about the Heat who finished 54-28. They have to play a team that was 48-34 instead of a 38-44 team. In my mind that doesn't make any sense. yes they pulled off an upset, but they played TERRIBLE in the regular season & deserve an insanely hard road to the finals. The Hawks were 38-44 & could face the #5 seed to get to the conference finals. The Heat had a phenomenal record & deserve the easier road through the playoffs, they earned it all year long (not just in 1 series)

  8. #28
    Raptors Republic Veteran white men can't jump's Avatar
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    Sigh...this is going nowhere.

    My opinion is that re-seeding is the worst possible choice for the type of 8-team playoffs the NBA runs.

    Bracketing makes it likely all teams get a mix of supposedly easy and hard teams through the rounds....Teams are unlikely to get 2 straight easy rounds or two straight hard rounds (based on seeds at least). Going through potentially 14 hard games in a row vs 14 easy games in a row is a significantly different road. And no team deserves one or the other based on regular season success. Again, home court should be reward enough...

    Why? Because other things factor into regular season. What if you dominate until the last 2 months and then are basically average? Why do you deserve an easier schedule for not being consistent and playing worse than many of the lower seeds for a significant chunk of the season? What if you're a "bad" team because of an injury and then one of the best teams in the league if your star comes back? Why shouldn't you have a chance at the same path through the playoffs as the higher seed you beat in the 1st round?

    Bracketing is more fair, and more exciting all around. Re-seeding just makes things unfairly easy/difficult depending on seed, and doesn't necessarily reflect regular season consistency or dominance.
    Last edited by white men can't jump; Mon Apr 28th, 2014 at 11:42 PM.

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  10. #29
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    Quote white men can't jump wrote: View Post
    Sigh...this is going nowhere.

    My opinion is that re-seeding is the worst possible choice for the type of 8-team playoffs the NBA runs.

    Bracketing makes it likely all teams get a mix of supposedly easy and hard teams through the rounds....Teams are unlikely to get 2 straight easy rounds or two straight hard rounds. Going through potentially 14 hard games in a row vs 14 easy games in a row is a significantly different road. And no team deserves one or the other based on regular season success. Again, home court should be reward enough...

    Why? Because other things factor into regular season. What if you dominate until the last 2 months and then are basically average? Why do you deserve an easier schedule for not being consistent and playing worse than many of the lower seeds for a significant chunk of the season? What if you're a "bad" team because of an injury and then one of the best teams in the league if your star comes back? Why shouldn't you have a chance at the same path through the playoffs as the higher seed you beat in the 1st round?

    Bracketing is more fair, and more exciting all around. Re-seeding just makes things unfairly easy/difficult depending on seed, and doesn't necessarily reflect regular season consistency or dominance.
    guess we'll agree to disagree. like i said it boils down to what should hold more weight (regular season vs winning the round in the playoffs). Maybe my mind has just been trained to think that the teams who did the best in the regular season have earned the right to the easiest path through the playoffs.

    I am starting to come around to the idea of the fact that with this format every team is faced with 1 easier & 1 difficult matchup in the first 2 rounds regardless, which makes things more fair all around. But what if the 4/5 seed gets to face the 8 seed, then they are getting 2 easy matchups, so that still defeats that purpose. Not that it will hardly ever happen, but it could (this year, when the Raptors would've benefited from reseeding most).

    Still just think over the course of an 82 game season it matters more & is more deserving of the easier matchup, then winning 1 round in the playoffs. But maybe thats just me.
    Last edited by CashGameND; Mon Apr 28th, 2014 at 11:47 PM.

  11. #30
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    1) Playing Miami is vastly better for Toronto in every possible way.
    2) Reseeding is a dumb idea, for all the reasons listed in this thread already.

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    Quote CashGameND wrote: View Post
    guess we'll agree to disagree. like i said it boils down to what should hold more weight (regular season vs winning the round in the playoffs). Maybe my mind has just been trained to think that the teams who did the best in the regular season have earned the right to the easiest path through the playoffs.

    I am starting to come around to the idea of the fact that with this format every team is faced with 1 easier & 1 difficult matchup in the first 2 rounds regardless, which makes things more fair all around. But what if the 4/5 seed gets to face the 8 seed. Then they are getting 2 easy matchups, so that still defeats that purpose. Not that it will hardly ever happen, but it could.

    Still just think over the course of an 82 game season it matters more & is more deserving of the easier matchup, then winning 1 round in the playoffs. But maybe thats just me.
    But if you're in a 4/5 seed matchup, you're facing someone who did just as well or almost as well as you did, so it would not be necessarily an easy matchup.
    The name's Bond, James Bond.

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    Raptors Republic Rookie RobertArchibald's Avatar
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    Quote CashGameND wrote: View Post
    PLUS. I've been looking at this mostly from a Raptors fan perspective. What about the Heat who finished 54-28. They have to play a team that was 48-34 instead of a 38-44 team. In my mind that doesn't make any sense. yes they pulled off an upset, but they played TERRIBLE in the regular season & deserve an insanely hard road to the finals. The Hawks were 38-44 & could face the #5 seed to get to the conference finals. The Heat had a phenomenal record & deserve the easier road through the playoffs, they earned it all year long (not just in 1 series)
    You don't seem to be paying attention to the logic here. Atlanta does have an insanely hard road to the finals. They have to beat the best record in the East that took place over this 82 game regular season you keep harping on.

    Atlanta beating the #1 seed doesn't mean Miami isn't getting rewarded. If anything, Miami avoids a hot team that just dismantled a great team. Sounds like a reward to me.

    Indiana's regular season record rewarded them with home court up until the Finals. Atlanta beating them rewards Atlanta by essentially stealing Indy's path to the finals (completely fair). However, they don't steal Indy's home court advantage (would be unfair).

    Seeds should only dictate first round matchups and homecourt advantage the rest of the way.

    Teams aren't jockeying to finish 8th because of a possible second round advantage.

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  15. #33
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    Quote RaptorsFohEva wrote: View Post
    But if you're in a 4/5 seed matchup, you're facing someone who did just as well or almost as well as you did, so it would not be necessarily an easy matchup.
    its meant relatively speaking. cause your not facing a division/conference winning team.
    Last edited by CashGameND; Tue Apr 29th, 2014 at 12:16 AM.

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    Quote RobertArchibald wrote: View Post
    You don't seem to be paying attention to the logic here. Atlanta does have an insanely hard road to the finals. They have to beat the best record in the East that took place over this 82 game regular season you keep harping on.

    Atlanta beating the #1 seed doesn't mean Miami isn't getting rewarded. If anything, Miami avoids a hot team that just dismantled a great team. Sounds like a reward to me.

    Indiana's regular season record rewarded them with home court up until the Finals. Atlanta beating them rewards Atlanta by essentially stealing Indy's path to the finals (completely fair). However, they don't steal Indy's home court advantage (would be unfair).

    Seeds should only dictate first round matchups and homecourt advantage the rest of the way.

    Teams aren't jockeying to finish 8th because of a possible second round advantage.
    Mimi avoids a hot team that dismantled a great team? I'm sorry but if you think the Hawks beating Indi makes them a scarier matchup to the Heat then the Raptors I think your crazy. Then again, as I keep saying, styles make fights. And maybe stylistically the Hawks do have a better chance against the Heat then the Raptors do (I honestly don't know for sure, but I doubt it).

    I'll agree to disagree with everyone on RR then it seems. Surprised nobody even sees my logic of earning it in the regular season being more valid then having 1 upset in the playoffs.

    as i keep saying it keeps coming down to comparing what you value more. a 1st round win, or the value of a full season. (imo, its allot easier to pull off a playoff upset then it is to earn your high rank over an 82 game season).

    - and yes i get that the higher ranks still get home court advantage. But the fact that its even possible the wizards could face the hawks (a 5 and 8 seed) to get to the conference finals, to me is a joke.

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    Quote nubreed000 wrote: View Post
    1) Playing Miami is vastly better for Toronto in every possible way.
    2) Reseeding is a dumb idea, for all the reasons listed in this thread already.
    Playing Miami is better then facing Washington? I'd have to disagree. I know the Heat have played bad down the stretch, but just based on track record alone against those 2 teams this season, and likely the last few seasons, I think the Raptors would much rather face the Wizards.

    I like your confidence though, hope your right (heat are easier matchup).

  18. #36
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    People know there's no reseeding in the NHL anymore either, right?

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    Quote Letter N wrote: View Post
    People know there's no reseeding in the NHL anymore either, right?
    yup

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    Quote Letter N wrote: View Post
    People know there's no reseeding in the NHL anymore either, right?
    Just started this year, people are about to realize it. I would bet majority of NHL fans would prefer the reseeding format. It seems like they are getting rid of it to add a "division winner", but with their new format could actually have somebody from a diferent division winning an opposite division (ex: team from metropolitan wins the atlantic division crown) lol
    Last edited by CashGameND; Tue Apr 29th, 2014 at 12:58 AM.

  21. #39
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    Quote CashGameND wrote: View Post
    Playing Miami is better then facing Washington? I'd have to disagree. I know the Heat have played bad down the stretch, but just based on track record alone against those 2 teams this season, and likely the last few seasons, I think the Raptors would much rather face the Wizards.

    I like your confidence though, hope your right (heat are easier matchup).
    My reasoning has nothing to do with actual chances of moving to the ECF, but with the benefits that would come from playing a 2 time championship team. Much more valuable experience plus a bigger spotlight. We'd get so much exposure from US media

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    Quote nubreed000 wrote: View Post
    My reasoning has nothing to do with actual chances of moving to the ECF, but with the benefits that would come from playing a 2 time championship team. Much more valuable experience plus a bigger spotlight. We'd get so much exposure from US media
    ic. My thoughts are more geared toward the great hope of winning the whole thing. I'd rather win another round & face Miami in the conference finals. Then you get an extra round experience in there too!

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