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Thread: WANTED - Video of Jonas' Fouls

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    Raptors Republic All-Star JawsGT's Avatar
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    Default WANTED - Video of Jonas' Fouls

    I know Jonas has picked up some deserving fouls, but I feel that more than any other player in this series Jonas has been short changed by the refs. It seems like they are calling him for some bogus fouls and he has been unable to get into rhythm in this series. Some have been momentum shifting.

    So I ask, can someone out there with some tech savvy please put together a video compilation of all the fouls Jonas has picked up in this series? I have no idea how to this. I think it would be interesting to see all the fouls in one short video. It might be something worth putting on the front page of the site, if indeed my suspicions are correct.
    Anyone up for the challenge?

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    Raptors Republic Hall of Famer mcHAPPY's Avatar
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    He has received some ticky tack fouls but that is on him for not being in right place at right time on rotations.

    He has got some stupid ones too, like the 3rd when he slightly nudged Garnett last night.

    The one that still blows my mind is the one where Garnett pushes him blatantly in to Pierce who grabs his arm.... and JV is whistled. Unbelievable.


    But the horrible reffing is more than JV and the refs. Adam Silver really has some work to do. The quality of officiating today is absolutely brutal. It is so bad in fact that we are left to wonder if there is anything shadier going on behind the scene - and again, not just with the Raptors but league wide.
    "Championships are what we live for, now lets go win them."
    Tim Leiweke

    Basketball has clear winners every night --
    except at the draft, which is all homework, politics and chance.

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    Raptors Republic Starter KHD's Avatar
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    Quote mcHAPPY wrote: View Post
    But the horrible reffing is more than JV and the refs. Adam Silver really has some work to do. The quality of officiating today is absolutely brutal. It is so bad in fact that we are left to wonder if there is anything shadier going on behind the scene - and again, not just with the Raptors but league wide.
    I don't think we need to wonder at this point. It's pretty blatantly obvious that extending series and having desirable matchups is the mandate.

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    Quote KHD wrote: View Post
    I don't think we need to wonder at this point. It's pretty blatantly obvious that extending series and having desirable matchups is the mandate.
    I don't think we can change the way the NBA operates, but I do think this playoff series with the absurd turnout at the Square and record breaking ratings which even beat hockey have helped push Toronto as one of those desirable matchups. I think it will help the NBA to wake up to the fact that the Raptors is a team they want near the top every year, because a whole damn country will start watching them. I don't think the NBA believed that prior to this year. Every time on ESPN and TNT feeds of our playoff games the announcers are gushing over our crowd and fans, and saying how quiet/non existent the Brooklyn fans are. So let's keep it up, change our persona around the league, and then the refs will start making BS calls our way instead.

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    These officiating threads are getting insane. I have two questions for those of you who are crying foul:

    1. Do you watch the other series'?
    2. Is this the first time you've been emotionally invested in an NBA playoff team?

    If I had to guess, most of the people who are complaining about the officiating would answer no and yes. Otherwise I don't see how you could make the claim that there's anything fishy going on. If you were genuinely not expecting a young team playing a veteran team to get shafted, then again, how long have you been watching the NBA? Vets know how to draw fouls, they know how to conceal their own, they know how to game the system. The Raps, for the most part, do not. Anyone who has been an NBA fan for a while has seen this happen over and over and over; there's nothing new here.


    As for league wide, well, every team gets screwed by the officiating in the playoffs at some point. I fully agree they need better officials, but the league has completely fucked themselves in that sense by opening the game up. How the hell can you expect 3 officials to be able to call every violation that occurs between 10 players when so much contact is illegal. Why do you think things like lane violations, travels, etc get ignored? And don't even get me started on how absurd the block/charge rules are and how open to inconsistent it is from play to play. It's impossible to watch everything (especially footwork), you'd need literally 10 officials.

    This is the reality of the NBA. Complaining about it accomplishes nothing.

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    Raptors Republic Rookie RobertArchibald's Avatar
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    Quote Lark Benson wrote: View Post
    These officiating threads are getting insane. I have two questions for those of you who are crying foul:

    1. Do you watch the other series'?
    2. Is this the first time you've been emotionally invested in an NBA playoff team?

    If I had to guess, most of the people who are complaining about the officiating would answer no and yes. Otherwise I don't see how you could make the claim that there's anything fishy going on. If you were genuinely not expecting a young team playing a veteran team to get shafted, then again, how long have you been watching the NBA? Vets know how to draw fouls, they know how to conceal their own, they know how to game the system. The Raps, for the most part, do not. Anyone who has been an NBA fan for a while has seen this happen over and over and over; there's nothing new here.


    As for league wide, well, every team gets screwed by the officiating in the playoffs at some point. I fully agree they need better officials, but the league has completely fucked themselves in that sense by opening the game up. How the hell can you expect 3 officials to be able to call every violation that occurs between 10 players when so much contact is illegal. Why do you think things like lane violations, travels, etc get ignored? And don't even get me started on how absurd the block/charge rules are and how open to inconsistent it is from play to play. It's impossible to watch everything (especially footwork), you'd need literally 10 officials.

    This is the reality of the NBA. Complaining about it accomplishes nothing.
    Completely disagree with the bolded. You honestly think vets are doing things that the refs don't see and young players haven't learned these secret fouls? NBA refs GIVE calls to veteran guys because the NBA wants its superstars to succeed. KG could literally be called for a foul on every play. I can clearly see that and I'm not standing on the court like an NBA ref. He isn't gaming any system. The system is favouring him. The NBA wants KG in the court. He provides antics, starts shit with other players, is exciting to watch for the average fan. The average fan has no clue who JV is. They don't care if he's on the court or on the bench.

    There's no hidden tactics going on by vets. Just hidden tactics going on between officials and the league. You also don't need more officials to call games properly. If you've never reffed before, it might seem that way. You have a zone to focus on based on positioning. That's why when officials make calls outside of their zones, it seems fishy. There was one instance of this last night where the official under the basket stayed quiet and the official standing next to Casey blew the whistle. Very sketchy stuff, that shows poor officiating.
    There's math, and everything else is debatable.

    @clericalbeats

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    Raptors Republic Starter KHD's Avatar
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    Quote Lark Benson wrote: View Post
    These officiating threads are getting insane. I have two questions for those of you who are crying foul:

    1. Do you watch the other series'?
    2. Is this the first time you've been emotionally invested in an NBA playoff team?

    If I had to guess, most of the people who are complaining about the officiating would answer no and yes. Otherwise I don't see how you could make the claim that there's anything fishy going on. If you were genuinely not expecting a young team playing a veteran team to get shafted, then again, how long have you been watching the NBA? Vets know how to draw fouls, they know how to conceal their own, they know how to game the system. The Raps, for the most part, do not. Anyone who has been an NBA fan for a while has seen this happen over and over and over; there's nothing new here.


    As for league wide, well, every team gets screwed by the officiating in the playoffs at some point. I fully agree they need better officials, but the league has completely fucked themselves in that sense by opening the game up. How the hell can you expect 3 officials to be able to call every violation that occurs between 10 players when so much contact is illegal. Why do you think things like lane violations, travels, etc get ignored? And don't even get me started on how absurd the block/charge rules are and how open to inconsistent it is from play to play. It's impossible to watch everything (especially footwork), you'd need literally 10 officials.

    This is the reality of the NBA. Complaining about it accomplishes nothing.
    Being condescending doesn't exactly advance your point, FYI. And honestly, if you're so experienced in watching basketball, I personally don't see how you aren't suspicious.

    Nobody is asking the referees to see every single violation, but there is a lack of consistency in the way games are called that almost always seems to tilt the tables in favour of extending a series and/or getting a juicy matchup. Look at how the Lakers got into the playoffs last year, how OKC beat SA in the WCF a few years ago, the famed Kings - Lakers series, etc. etc. Too many examples to ignore for me.

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    Quote KHD wrote: View Post
    Nobody is asking the referees to see every single violation, but there is a lack of consistency in the way games are called that almost always seems to tilt the tables in favour of extending a series and/or getting a juicy matchup. Look at how the Lakers got into the playoffs last year, how OKC beat SA in the WCF a few years ago, the famed Kings - Lakers series, etc. etc. Too many examples to ignore for me.
    Come on now, a few examples doesn't make a rule. Every sport has examples just like you mentioned, it doesn't mean there's a conspiracy.

    And as for the response above about vets not learning how to game the system, I could write a ten page essay on why you're dead wrong, but if you can't see it for yourself then what's the point? You've correctly identified the issue with KG, but misplaced the blame on some conspiracy instead of just accepting that years in the NBA will give you an instinctive feel for what you can get away with based on sight lines for officials, experience with individual officials and how they call things, how to disguise contact, and things like holds, locking arms, jersey pulls, etc. The idea that the officials don't call fouls on certain players because they want them on the floor is nothing short of ridiculous.

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    Raptors Republic Superstar Superjudge's Avatar
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    Quote Lark Benson wrote: View Post
    These officiating threads are getting insane. I have two questions for those of you who are crying foul:

    1. Do you watch the other series'?
    2. Is this the first time you've been emotionally invested in an NBA playoff team?



    This is the reality of the NBA. Complaining about it accomplishes nothing.
    Fuck off with that.
    Thanks.

    It's just how it is, so take it. Ok bud, point taken........ but trust, some of us actually know a thing or two about both basketball, AND the business of professional sports from a professional viewpoint. Both by time spent on an actual court, and by time spent professionally.

    I'm getting tired of condescending posts by guys that seem to think they have it all figured out. you don't, trust me. Toronto got SERIOUSLY screwed in the first three games. They played hard through it, and FANS and MEDIA from Toronto, and ALL OVER the US in other markets all cried foul. For once it was truly brought to the surface. So, the NBA and its officials toned down the obvious for a few games, leaving toronto up a game..... but its back, and its subtle and I can guarantee it will be there tomorrow.

    Did the refs cost the raps the game last night, hell no, they sucked, but the calls were shit too.

    Does it happen in other markets that are undesirable....yep, and who fucking cares, thats a fact, not an argument against complaining. Stating "oh its just how it is, deal with it" has to be the dumbest fucking thing I have ever heard. Its bullshit, and it should stop, and if I invested millions into a franchise i'd be furious.

    Anyhow. Refs or no refs, if 12 players don't show up really to produce tomorrow its over, period. But, when I see calls that are clear and obvious momentum calls, or "respect" calls tomorrow, I'm gonna scream bloody murder, and rightfully so. Anyone here who thinks they can call me out as if I'm some whimpering teenager can suck it, I have forgotten more about his stuff than a good deal of you neophyte brainiacs have ever known.

    Humph.

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    Raptors Republic Superstar Superjudge's Avatar
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    Quote Lark Benson wrote: View Post
    I could write a ten page essay on why you're dead wrong, but if you can't see it for yourself then what's the point?
    Ok.

    do it. I can't wait to see what you come up with.

    hahahaha the vets are "gaming" refs that have been calling games for 30 years hahahahahaaaa please do, tell me more about it Kreskin.

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    Quote Superjudge wrote: View Post
    Does it happen in other markets that are undesirable....yep, and who fucking cares, thats a fact, not an argument against complaining. Stating "oh its just how it is, deal with it" has to be the dumbest fucking thing I have ever heard. Its bullshit, and it should stop, and if I invested millions into a franchise i'd be furious.
    I'm not stating 'that's how it is', I'm stating that seeing a conspiracy where there isn't one is asinine. So no, I will not fuck off until all you tin foil hat wearing nutjobs come to your senses and realize that this team isn't being victimized any more than the other 15 teams are.

    As for the essay sorry I don't have that kind of time or I honestly would, because the fact that people can't see this is mind blowing to me. But yeah you're right, what an absurd idea, that someone like Garnett with his 1377 total games (not including post season) would have a better idea of how to deal with / work around the officiating than a guy like Valanciunas. How silly to think that players that have never been in the playoffs before would have a tougher time responding to the way things are being called than guys who have been through it every year for the past 10+ in some cases.

    I guess it's just that the NBA doesn't want to succeed in one of the largest potential markets in North America. But I guess because you know something about the 'business' side of the NBA, you know better.

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    Raptors Republic Starter KHD's Avatar
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    Quote Lark Benson wrote: View Post
    The idea that the officials don't call fouls on certain players because they want them on the floor is nothing short of ridiculous.
    Wow...


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    Quote KHD wrote: View Post
    Wow...
    Want to explain to me then how KG and Val have nearly identical fouls per 36?

    I totally agree that certain players get superstar calls on offense, but that's not what we're talking about here. You're saying that the officials will avoid calling defensive fouls to keep guys on the court. Give me an example.

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    The reason Jonas has been picking up quick fouls is because our perimeter defense has been absolutely awful. When the other 4 guys are giving their cover an open lane to the basket, it put JV in a tough spot. Being a young and athletic team gives us no reason to be playing such terrible on the ball defense.

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    Raptors Republic Starter KHD's Avatar
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    Quote Lark Benson wrote: View Post
    Want to explain to me then how KG and Val have nearly identical fouls per 36?

    I totally agree that certain players get superstar calls on offense, but that's not what we're talking about here. You're saying that the officials will avoid calling defensive fouls to keep guys on the court. Give me an example.
    Fouls per 36 is a useless comparator between JV and KG in a single series, given that minutes played is not independent of fouls.

    Picking up 3 fouls in 1 half is a lot different than picking up 3 fouls by the 4th quarter.

    But in any case, i'm not even talking about this series specifically at this point. You really think that anyone else was getting away with Hibbert's "verticality" earlier this season? or that anyone else can get away with setting screens like KG?

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    Raptors Republic Superstar Superjudge's Avatar
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    hahaha ok man.

    You win.... i'll just go shine my hat

    hahaha


    as if its a big conspiracy that the NBA, guided by Stern used the promotion of stars, and the officiating of said stars to maintain visible stat lines to sell the game on and off the court.... this is fucking NBA 101..... but yeah, I got me a tin foil hat hahahaha


    you talking crazy....that, and stop acting so fucking holier than thou "canadian". its boring.

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    Quote Lark Benson wrote: View Post
    Come on now, a few examples doesn't make a rule. Every sport has examples just like you mentioned, it doesn't mean there's a conspiracy.

    And as for the response above about vets not learning how to game the system, I could write a ten page essay on why you're dead wrong, but if you can't see it for yourself then what's the point? You've correctly identified the issue with KG, but misplaced the blame on some conspiracy instead of just accepting that years in the NBA will give you an instinctive feel for what you can get away with based on sight lines for officials, experience with individual officials and how they call things, how to disguise contact, and things like holds, locking arms, jersey pulls, etc. The idea that the officials don't call fouls on certain players because they want them on the floor is nothing short of ridiculous.
    I agree with what your saying for the most part...I also think these officials have seen the million hours of game film on these players and now their little cheats. Let's imagine the officials are as experienced as the players which in essence they are. And because of that, it should at least partially nullify any of these.

    And lets talk about how JKidds 25, 000 bucks bought us eleven more fouls. C'mon...read the article that was done on this website about the JV calls. Pretty interesting actually...

    And by the by, I've been playing and watching Bball since the seventies. Played high school and some college...just in case you were going start rolling your eye lids and declaiming my lack of basketball gravitas.

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    Quote KHD wrote: View Post
    Fouls per 36 is a useless comparator between JV and KG in a single series, given that minutes played is not independent of fouls.

    Picking up 3 fouls in 1 half is a lot different than picking up 3 fouls by the 4th quarter.

    But in any case, i'm not even talking about this series specifically at this point. You really think that anyone else was getting away with Hibbert's "verticality" earlier this season? or that anyone else can get away with setting screens like KG?
    Sigh. Sure, it's all a conspiracy and has nothing to do with a young center learning the game in an unfamiliar setting. This certainly never happens with other young centers in the playoffs when they go against vets either. Must all be in the officiating, because Kevin Garnett sells some jerseys, which the NBA clearly values over the integrity of their game. I guess Mason Plumlee is picking up all those fouls because they want JV on the floor? Or is that part of making sure Kidd plays KG, despite his minutes restriction? I'm confused.

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    Quote Superjudge wrote: View Post
    as if its a big conspiracy that the NBA, guided by Stern used the promotion of stars, and the officiating of said stars to maintain visible stat lines to sell the game on and off the court.... this is fucking NBA 101..... but yeah, I got me a tin foil hat hahahaha
    You're equating marketing the game with fixing results. They're not even in the same ball park.

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    Quote Gman wrote: View Post
    I agree with what your saying for the most part...I also think these officials have seen the million hours of game film on these players and now their little cheats. Let's imagine the officials are as experienced as the players which in essence they are. And because of that, it should at least partially nullify any of these.

    And lets talk about how JKidds 25, 000 bucks bought us eleven more fouls. C'mon...read the article that was done on this website about the JV calls. Pretty interesting actually...

    And by the by, I've been playing and watching Bball since the seventies. Played high school and some college...just in case you were going start rolling your eye lids and declaiming my lack of basketball gravitas.
    I agree that they know their tricks, but they have to catch them in the act to be able to call it.

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