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Thread: Time of the Year to evaluate these players ....

  1. #81
    Raptors Republic Veteran white men can't jump's Avatar
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    Quote planetmars wrote: View Post
    Wonder if Atlanta is tired of waiting for Horford's boobs to heal and want to replace him with Monroe? If Horford was made available I'm not really sure how you would get him unless you'd be willing to move DD.
    That's kind of what I was wondering when I saw it.

    As for cost...that's really tough to figure out. Given this would be a 3-team deal, it's hard to know what Toronto could send to each team to facilitate.

  2. #82
    Raptors Republic All-Star Primer's Avatar
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    Quote white men can't jump wrote: View Post
    That's kind of what I was wondering when I saw it.

    As for cost...that's really tough to figure out. Given this would be a 3-team deal, it's hard to know what Toronto could send to each team to facilitate.
    I could maybe see Horford for Monroe and a 1st. Don't think a 3rd team is necessary.

  3. #83
    Raptors Republic Veteran white men can't jump's Avatar
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    Quote Primer wrote: View Post
    I could maybe see Horford for Monroe and a 1st. Don't think a 3rd team is necessary.
    Does Detroit want Horford with Drummond and Smith in the frontcourt? Is either team willing to give up a 1st rd pick in the deal? Given the first question, what pieces then help get the deal done discounting picks?

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    Quote chch166 wrote: View Post
    Nooooo not Perkins please....... We're going to be on Shaqtin a fool alot if that happens.
    There's only about 4 centers this year I would target as backups, and Okafor might want to start.
    I'd rather have Perkins on the cheap instead of paying Kaman 6-8 million to back up JV, play Harden-level defense, and whine.
    @Boymusic66

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    Quote white men can't jump wrote: View Post
    Does Detroit want Horford with Drummond and Smith in the frontcourt? Is either team willing to give up a 1st rd pick in the deal? Given the first question, what pieces then help get the deal done discounting picks?
    Raptors get Horford, Hawks get Monroe and Salmons (cap relief with the 7 million you can waive down to 1 million), Pistons get Vasquez and 2Pat?
    @Boymusic66

  6. #86
    Raptors Republic Icon mcHAPPY's Avatar
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    Quote TSF wrote: View Post
    You realize our backup PG just averaged 11 and 6 playing 28 minutes a game in the playoffs?
    And amazingly he was the JJ defensive stopper after Casey let PP be destroyed.
    "You donít know the Bruno Caboclo......"
    Bruno Caboclo

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  8. #87
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    I expect Masai to do a good job till the next season comes.

    List of players in my opinion that should be kept:
    Amir Johnson - Game 7 perfectly showed why.
    Kyle Lowry - He did not have the best series, but definitely kept Raptors close to winning it.
    JV - Struggled in game 7, but it was partly fault of the tmates that had no trust in him for instance DD.
    Tyler H. - A real fighter, never gives on a play. Love that guy.
    Patrick Patterson - Great player. Scores plays D.
    Terence Ross - Gained more confidence this season, during the summer he will work it up even more.
    Vasquez - Sees the floor well, one of the best passers in the team.
    De Colo - Player that is suitable for a winning team as a one that comes from the bench.

    Others:
    Derozan - Needs to be traded. He has no game for a winning team, especially in the Playoffs. Everything depends on his jump shot. If its falling we might win, if not, others need to step up their game. From time to time makes terrible decisions, does not see the floor, rarely passes to an open man. An all star that would be a sixth player at the best in Spurs.

    Fields - I used to like him a lot when he played for the Knicks. This series against nets he stepped on the floor for couple of times. In my opinion he did a better job than DD defending. He hesitated to shot. Was this plan of Casey, I don't know. This player could have effected this series in the same level that Kirlenko did. But now his salary is way to big for him to stay.

    Novak - Limited veteran player. If Raptors would play similar game to the Heat, he would be much more of a value.

    John Salmons - His days are in the past. I have little trust in him when he carries the ball. His shooting is not steady at all. Sometimes it falls and it happens when the ball does not even touch the rim. For a professional that's too much.

    Chuck Hayes- Not much of a scorer. Does a decent job in the paint. But for his price Raptors could get more efficient player.

    Dwayne Casey - During the second part of the season I had thoughts if he is the right fit for such team. At the end I was not happy with his job. Players come out of time outs and take a shot without any plays. That is not a job of a good coach. Every coach should try to act like Popovich or the bulls coach. Play like a real team, not separately on the court. A lot of this happened in the playoffs for the raptors.

    Money:

    Total salaries of the players that I would want to stay: 24,2 Mil + New contract with Kyle (10-11 Mil worth a year) + New contract with De Colo (1,5 Mil a year) = Makes 36,7 Mil at tops.

    63.5 Mil (This seasons Salaries) - 36.7 Mil (players that stay salaries) = 26.8 Mil (Money for free agency)

  9. #88
    Raptors Republic Icon mcHAPPY's Avatar
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    Quote Hotshot wrote: View Post
    They need a better coach, so many useful players like Field and De Colo were kept out of this series not to mention he was outcoached by Jason Kidd cause he couldn't adjust in time.

    I'm just glad to see the last of Salmon, its time to retire buddy.

    They need a big bruiser type of a SG or SF like Joe Johnson, so when the shot isn't falling feed the beast the ball on the inside. So tired seeing the Raptors becoming a jump shooting team when the pressure is on.

    Need a solid backup centre, preferably more big then JV for match up problems like Asik.
    This is so sad because it is true.
    "You donít know the Bruno Caboclo......"
    Bruno Caboclo

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  11. #89
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    Quote acesup wrote: View Post
    I expect Masai to do a good job till the next season comes.

    List of players in my opinion that should be kept:
    Amir Johnson - Game 7 perfectly showed why.
    Kyle Lowry - He did not have the best series, but definitely kept Raptors close to winning it.
    JV - Struggled in game 7, but it was partly fault of the tmates that had no trust in him for instance DD.
    Tyler H. - A real fighter, never gives on a play. Love that guy.
    Patrick Patterson - Great player. Scores plays D.
    Terence Ross - Gained more confidence this season, during the summer he will work it up even more.
    Vasquez - Sees the floor well, one of the best passers in the team.
    De Colo - Player that is suitable for a winning team as a one that comes from the bench.

    Others:
    Derozan - Needs to be traded. He has no game for a winning team, especially in the Playoffs. Everything depends on his jump shot. If its falling we might win, if not, others need to step up their game. From time to time makes terrible decisions, does not see the floor, rarely passes to an open man. An all star that would be a sixth player at the best in Spurs.

    Fields - I used to like him a lot when he played for the Knicks. This series against nets he stepped on the floor for couple of times. In my opinion he did a better job than DD defending. He hesitated to shot. Was this plan of Casey, I don't know. This player could have effected this series in the same level that Kirlenko did. But now his salary is way to big for him to stay.

    Novak - Limited veteran player. If Raptors would play similar game to the Heat, he would be much more of a value.

    John Salmons - His days are in the past. I have little trust in him when he carries the ball. His shooting is not steady at all. Sometimes it falls and it happens when the ball does not even touch the rim. For a professional that's too much.

    Chuck Hayes- Not much of a scorer. Does a decent job in the paint. But for his price Raptors could get more efficient player.

    Dwayne Casey - During the second part of the season I had thoughts if he is the right fit for such team. At the end I was not happy with his job. Players come out of time outs and take a shot without any plays. That is not a job of a good coach. Every coach should try to act like Popovich or the bulls coach. Play like a real team, not separately on the court. A lot of this happened in the playoffs for the raptors.

    Money:

    Total salaries of the players that I would want to stay: 24,2 Mil + New contract with Kyle (10-11 Mil worth a year) + New contract with De Colo (1,5 Mil a year) = Makes 36,7 Mil at tops.

    63.5 Mil (This seasons Salaries) - 36.7 Mil (players that stay salaries) = 26.8 Mil (Money for free agency)

    HaHaHa welcome to the NBA

  12. #90
    Raptors Republic Starter TSF's Avatar
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    lolll There is no way anyone is taking Landry. Tack on another 8 million to your salary. Plus, you have to find someone to take Hayes and Novak. I think we could ship out Novak, but nobody is taking Hayes. That's now an addition 14 million. So you now have 12 million for FA. This is also assuming we ship out DD for absolutely no salary, which is absolutely not happening. Ps is sixth man on the spurs really that much of an insult when their sixth man for years has been HOF-worthy Manu?

    Until you find a good trade for DD, you have about 3 million to work with- assuming you ship out Novak. PLUS you have to factor in the 1 million cap hold for a rookie. Now we're down to 2 million.
    @Boymusic66

  13. #91
    Raptors Republic Icon mcHAPPY's Avatar
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    Quote OldSkoolCool wrote: View Post
    Agreed, need a new coaching philosophy that demands driving into the paint



    I think Ross will be a very good starting SG in this league. He can get into the paint at will (look at today) and can guard. If he can get his shot down during more pressure situations he will be very good. I think this will happen if he had a larger role and took some of his lumps without Casey breathing down his neck.

    I'm not a huge fan of Vasquez...only reason he should be kept is if we plan to use him as a SG 6th man. He is too ball hoggish and poor defensively to play the back up PG. I like De Colo there, just needs a little confidence restored after Casey destroyed him.



    No. He has been that bad.

    You want a high potential, long, athletic SF who is an advanced playmaker for the SF position....Giannis Antetokounmpo. He is my #1 target this summer and should be Ujiri's as well.
    I'm a huge fan of 'Po

    Only problem is I think their first round pick and he are the only untouchables on the roster.
    "You donít know the Bruno Caboclo......"
    Bruno Caboclo

  14. #92
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    Quote raptors999 wrote: View Post
    Hands for Barnes might be doable. GSW need to trade Barnes for something and they need a PF who picks up fouls and cap space. May need to add Salmons as sweetener....

    How is throwing Salmons into any trade a sweetener? For the buyout? Shouldn't the Raps look to use that themselves?

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  16. #93
    Raptors Republic Icon mcHAPPY's Avatar
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    Quote Puffer wrote: View Post
    How is throwing Salmons into any trade a sweetener? For the buyout? Shouldn't the Raps look to use that themselves?
    Or attach it to another trade that saves a team salary but offers the Raptors an asset in return?
    "You donít know the Bruno Caboclo......"
    Bruno Caboclo

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  18. #94
    Raptors Republic Starter Quirk's Avatar
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    Legit Starters, must keep: JV, Lowry, Amir
    Passable Starters, trade at least one: TRoss, DeRozan

    Key backups, keep some, trade some: 2Pat, TH, Fields
    Passable backups, no problem keeping, but whatevs, trade away: GV, Hayes, De Colo, Stone, Novak

    Bye bye: Salmons, Buycks

    Biggest needs:

    1/ Legit starting SF or SG <-- very important, wing play is the biggest weakness
    2/ Nice backup C <-- pretty important, need a prototypical bruising backup 5
    3/ Better backup PG <-- would be cool, GV is ok but only barely
    4/ Better starting PG <-- nice to have, but we're ok with Amir, he's a legit started, but would be a great backup

    I remain unconvinced about Casey, but agree that maybe another year is ok.
    Last edited by Quirk; Mon May 5th, 2014 at 08:54 AM. Reason: forgot novak

  19. #95
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    I disagree with some of that Quirk. DD is a fine starter that's slightly one dimensional, but dudes got something that most others on the team don't; an ability to create his own shot. Despite hating iso ball, I think we gotta recognize that talent. Plus DD has improved nearly every year, so why not make changes elsewhere to set-up a better more fluid system then see if DD can react to it.

    Also, GV is a good second unit facilator and MU would have to get uber creative in the trade market to upgrade on him at his price.

    Trading Ross at this point also doesn't make sense. Sure there are better options on the market (free agent and trade) but at his price along with his natural raw athelitism why not develop him instead? Might take a coaching change or addition, but to trade Ross (who is on his rookie contract) when his value is low doesn't make much sense.

    In addition, trading young guys with atleast average starter potential works better when that player is costing games via bad attitude or unprofessionalism, and Ross hasn't exhibited any of those traits.

    While I do agree that Ross isn't likely to be the long-term solution and should be traded eventually, why not let his value go back up via improvements made from more experience and then trade him?

    I am skeptical of DC's ability to develop young guys like JV and Ross though, this is true.

  20. #96
    Raptors Republic Veteran Nilanka's Avatar
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    Yeah, we could use a better backup centre. Maybe Vasquez will demand too much salary. Maybe we need a stronger wing defender.

    But what we're truly lacking is an elite offensive player. A player who demands double teams every time he touches the ball. Joe Johnson, despite his decaying carcass, is still an elite offensive player. He single handedly won this series for Brooklyn (it all started in the 3rd quarter of game 5).

    Sadly, the last such player we had was Bosh.
    "I don't lie. I willfully participate in a campaign of misinformation." - Fox Mulder

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  22. #97
    Raptors Republic Starter Quirk's Avatar
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    Stevo, problem is that DeRozan and Ross and both only passible starters, so if you keep DeRozan as a starter, you need to upgrade SF, wich means you need trade assets, and Ross is one. If we can acquire a legit SF and keep Ross as a backup, then that's cool. But for the team to improve, we need a real star wing in our starting line up and neither DD nor Ross are good enough.

  23. #98
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    Dude, I think DD qualifies at the very least as a decent starter now. The fact that he can make his own shot as a wing player can't be understated. That's really a skill thats pretty rare now for SG's. If overused DD's iso can kill our team momentum yes, but when the opposing team has the momentum it's nice and handy to have DD's iso with a decent chance of getting on the scoreboard without worry of a turnover from making his own shot.

    I don't think Ross is a starter, but my point was considering the market its too early to trade him. He'll have to be traded eventually as him and DD most likely will cancel each other out, but I can't think of a decent trade partner for Ross.

    I see Ross as more of an asset that doesn't disrupt the team, just he doesn't make consistent enough contributions as a starter on a championship calibre team.

    Changes are needed for the Raptors to contend though and yes I agree DD and Ross aren't likely to be superstars to bring us to the promised land.

    But we're not really in a position to trade or get a max contract worthy player now are we?

    And though DD's trade value is understandbly high right now, I think it'd be a blow to the team morale to trade him right now. Or maybe I just shouldn't do business because I value comrades in war as opposed to trading assets in business for profit. =)

  24. #99
    Super Moderator CalgaryRapsFan's Avatar
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    This core's ceiling is 2nd round at best. A significant roster overhaul is needed, in order for this team to become truly competitive. As I have all season, I remain committed to taking the long-term view with this team. Here's what I see when I look at this team:

    STARTERS

    C: Valanciunas
    PF:
    SF:
    SG: Ross
    PG: Lowry (ideally for $9-10M, but could accept front-loaded starting at up to $12M)

    BENCH

    C:
    PF: Patterson/Johnson (prefer PP if traditional post-up starting PF is acquired)
    SF:
    SG:
    PG: Vasquez & De Colo


    There are lots of holes on this roster, but they don't need to be filled immediately. Between 1st round picks (2014, 2015, 2 in 2016), cap space over the next few offseasons (ie: Salmons & Hansbrough - $1M buyout, Hayes, Fields, Johnson) and potential trade assets, I trust MU to rebuild this roster far more effectively than his predecessor, while remaining far more faithful to his long-term strategy.

    DeRozan made improvements this season, but I personally prefer Ross as the future starting SG. I would prefer a true starting SF over either DeRozan or Ross, and DeRozan (value & contract - for what it can return) makes much more sense as the ideal trade asset.

  25. #100
    Administrator Dr. James Naismith's Avatar
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    Quote Jamshid wrote: View Post
    Can we merge these two threads, it is almost the same topic:
    http://www.raptorsrepublic.com/forum...-these-players
    Good call. I merged the two threads seeing how we're basically discussing the same time.

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