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Small Forward and Backup Center + Vince

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  • #91
    drunkmunky wrote: View Post
    He's lasted this long because he's never really played true defense. You know, playing ball without whining like a little b*tch.
    It's been ten years. Sometimes Raptor fans are the whiniest, littlest bitches of them all.

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    • #92
      thead wrote: View Post
      we can get the SF through trade.

      Send Ross, Fields and a pick to Boston for Jeff Green
      we can go over the cap to extend or resign Lowry, Vasquez, Nando, 2Pat
      sign and trade for Vince. (Hansbrough matches what he would likely ask for)

      Fields is an expiring this year and could be used as trade filler finally.

      We have options

      roughly 30 million in expiring quality players, several picks a TPE and some other exceptions available to us.

      The mechanisms exist to drastically improve
      Mother of treadmill.

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      • #93
        Have people on this forum not learned anything from the Colangelo deals?

        Multi-year offer to a 30 year old Luol Deng?
        Trading away Ross and other assets for Jeff Green and the 9M per year he's owed?

        These are low-quality, win-now moves that lock us into being a 2nd round at best team for the foreseeable future. Not to mention the fact that Jeff Green and Deng are both overrated as hell. Both are below average efficiency shooters (Green - 52% TS, Deng - 51.7% TS) for starters; hell Deng shoots it worse than DeRozan. Additionally both of them have ZERO upside, and are not going to get better at this stage of their careers.

        Makes zero sense to take on any long-term salary if that player is not a star, DeRozan and Lowry are already going to cost us upwards of 20M between them and we have Jonas to re-sign (probably for a high price) in 2016. We need to maintain flexibility.

        If Deng wants to take a 1 year deal or 2 years with a team option, I'm down. Anything else and he can go to hell.

        There are only a few players available in free agency that it makes any sense to throw long-term money at: LeBron and Melo are the obvious ones, then you have guys like Hayward and Greg Monroe that could be worth a long-term deal if the price is right and Ujiri feels like they fit in nicely.

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        • #94
          imanshumpert wrote: View Post
          Have people on this forum not learned anything from the Colangelo deals?

          Multi-year offer to a 30 year old Luol Deng?
          Trading away Ross and other assets for Jeff Green and the 9M per year he's owed?

          These are low-quality, win-now moves that lock us into being a 2nd round at best team for the foreseeable future. Not to mention the fact that Jeff Green and Deng are both overrated as hell. Both are below average efficiency shooters (Green - 52% TS, Deng - 51.7% TS) for starters; hell Deng shoots it worse than DeRozan. Additionally both of them have ZERO upside, and are not going to get better at this stage of their careers.

          Makes zero sense to take on any long-term salary if that player is not a star, DeRozan and Lowry are already going to cost us upwards of 20M between them and we have Jonas to re-sign (probably for a high price) in 2016. We need to maintain flexibility.

          If Deng wants to take a 1 year deal or 2 years with a team option, I'm down. Anything else and he can go to hell.

          There are only a few players available in free agency that it makes any sense to throw long-term money at: LeBron and Melo are the obvious ones, then you have guys like Hayward and Greg Monroe that could be worth a long-term deal if the price is right and Ujiri feels like they fit in nicely.
          This. We should not give someone a big long term deal unless they are a proven star, or someone with a very good amount of potential left.

          We should also not sign vets long term and for too much (ala Colangelo)
          The name's Bond, James Bond.

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          • #95
            I don't think we have to worry about MU and long term vet deals.

            He likes to bring Vets in, but on 1-2 year contracts, and typically on the lower end of things.

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            • #96
              phiLLy wrote: View Post
              I don't think we have to worry about MU and long term vet deals.

              He likes to bring Vets in, but on 1-2 year contracts, and typically on the lower end of things.
              I'm not worried about Ujiri. Just shocked at the suggestions of some posters... were people not around during the BC era?

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              • #97
                RaptorsFohEva wrote: View Post
                This. We should not give someone a big long term deal unless they are a proven star, or someone with a very good amount of potential left.

                We should also not sign vets long term and for too much (ala Colangelo)
                Colangelo would probably resign salmons for another 10 years
                I'm back. I no longer worship joe johnson

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                • #98
                  Yabadabayolo wrote: View Post
                  Colangelo would probably resign salmons for another 10 years
                  All guaranteed, and if he retires it turns into 1M for the next 15 years.
                  The name's Bond, James Bond.

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                  • #99
                    ezz_bee wrote: View Post
                    I don't see Demar and Ross being successful as a wing pairing in the post season as neither will be able to handle the larger SFs. BUT if you bring in a true small forward, can you relegate Ross to the bench? Will he be happy with that? Won't that automatically reduce his value, similar to the situation in Golden State with the Iggy signing reducing Barnes value?


                    I think you either trade Ross or Demar in anticipation of bringing that small forward on

                    OR

                    You draft a natural SF. That way you can start Demar and Ross together with your Rookie coming off the bench. Hopefully, by the time the playoffs roll around your rookie can fill in the Salmons/Fields role in the playoffs. Also, by coming off the bench if the rookie supplants one of the starters, then he's earned it.
                    It could reduce Ross's value, or it could raise it, making him the spark off the bench who can score in bunches, a true 6th man, while playing alongside GV, who is a playmaker and can create for and find open teammates (open 3s) and Patterson, who will space the floor and create driving lanes and back door opportunities.
                    A key that opens many locks is a master key, but a lock that gets open by many keys is just a shitty lock

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                    • imanshumpert wrote: View Post
                      I'm not worried about Ujiri. Just shocked at the suggestions of some posters... were people not around during the BC era?
                      They were, that's why they're so used to thinking they way they are. Mortgage away our future to get a few percentage points better.
                      A key that opens many locks is a master key, but a lock that gets open by many keys is just a shitty lock

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                      • Assuming KL/GV/PP are all back there should be not much wiggle room anyway to land a guy like Deng or Monroe. So that leaves the mid-level exception. If MU dips into the MLE I hope he is really careful with it (and I'm sure he will be).

                        Those mid-level contracts are a main reason why teams are capped out and have a hard time gaining flexibility. Plus these 'assets' typically don't really make that much of a difference in the win/loss column. A draft pick or a D-leaguer could in many ways do what a mid-level talent does and would cost so much less.

                        Basically I liked what the Lakers did with their roster last season despite how awful they were.

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                        • e_wheazhy_ wrote: View Post
                          It could reduce Ross's value, or it could raise it, making him the spark off the bench who can score in bunches, a true 6th man, while playing alongside GV, who is a playmaker and can create for and find open teammates (open 3s) and Patterson, who will space the floor and create driving lanes and back door opportunities.
                          I'm sorry, but Ross would make a fudging terrible sixth man.

                          His game is to play off others and catch and shoot, which requires him to play off the ball

                          6th man types are usually ball dominant guards (ala Crawford/Ginobli/Waiters) that can create their own shot. Ross does not create his shot consistently.

                          Putting Ross to the bench would be putting him in a position to fail. Pass.

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                          • OldSkoolCool wrote: View Post
                            I'm sorry, but Ross would make a fudging terrible sixth man.

                            His game is to play off others and catch and shoot, which requires him to play off the ball

                            6th man types are usually ball dominant guards (ala Crawford/Ginobli/Waiters) that can create their own shot. Ross does not create his shot consistently.

                            Putting Ross to the bench would be putting him in a position to fail. Pass.
                            Oh sorry, which NBA team are you the coach of?
                            A key that opens many locks is a master key, but a lock that gets open by many keys is just a shitty lock

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                            • OldSkoolCool wrote: View Post
                              I'm sorry, but Ross would make a fudging terrible sixth man.

                              His game is to play off others and catch and shoot, which requires him to play off the ball

                              6th man types are usually ball dominant guards (ala Crawford/Ginobli/Waiters) that can create their own shot. Ross does not create his shot consistently.

                              Putting Ross to the bench would be putting him in a position to fail. Pass.
                              I feel like its important to Ross's development that he learn to create his own shot though. Otherwise his ceiling is probably 3rd banana on a team, not a primary option. It's too easy to take Ross away if a team really needed to do that right now.

                              It's a tough situation for the Raptors right now because you can't really have both DeRozan and Ross on the floor at the same time against a Joe Johnson type 3. The solution is either to trade one or operate with one off the bench in those situations. A Marvin Williams type will give the flexibility to do the latter of those options.
                              That is a normal collar. Move on, find a new slant.

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                              • Only one thing matters: We The Champs.

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