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Thread: Everything Coach

  1. #241
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    While I'm not a huge fan of this, I do like how quick and decisive it was, in terms of setting the tone and direction for the offseason. Let Lowry, Vasquez, and Patterson know that next season is going to be about building on this year's success. That if they stay, they know exactly what to expect. It really does feel for the first time like all our free agents legitimately want to be back, not just saying so to keep their value up. Vasquez and Patterson saying that starting doesn't really matter to them, they're eager to come back and play whatever role the team wants them to play. The coaching staff should lots of get credit for that sort of atmosphere.

    There are Xs and Os issues with the team, but I hope that Casey can lean on his assistant coaches a little more to resolve those issues.
    tank-agnostic

  2. #242
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    Quote octothorp wrote: View Post
    ...There are Xs and Os issues with the team, but I hope that Casey can lean on his assistant coaches a little more to resolve those issues.
    Let's all remember that there will definitely be a "Let's sit down and talk about what went right and what went wrong with the season" session between Masai and Casey. I trust MU to put the correct emphasis in the right places and also to address any shortcomings in terms of assistant coach talent.

  3. #243
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    Quote Joey wrote: View Post
    Can we get this man a Tony Award for his Dramatic Performance?! Bravo!
    I'd like to thank the Academy. I would also like to thank the Raptors organization for many years of pain, which I funneled into my performance. Thank you especially to Vince Carter, Rob Babcock, Rafael Araujo, RuPaul, and Bryan Colangelo. You are my inspiration.

    Dwane Casey... what can I say. I remember back when you used to overplay Alan Anderson. You've come so far since then... now you overplay John Salmons. Whether it was a Rasual Butler TO-DNP or an Amir Johnson corner three pointer, whether it was trying to get Kyle Lowry to play like Jose Calderon or getting Rudy Gay to be a fat Carmelo, the amazing labyrinth which is your basketball mind has literally no way out. I applaud you and look forward to three more years of watching our players hoist long jump shots while Jonas Valanciunas stands around waving his arms in the air.

    Finally I'd like to thank--wait, I'm not finished! stop the music!--I'd like to thank Sam Mitchell--Smitch!!! You were the original mistaken rehire!--and the Rock! Not the actor but the actual Rock! Without the pounding you took who knows where we'd be--and Masai! Masai Ujiri! I believed in youuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuu

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  5. #244
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    Quote Jclaw wrote: View Post
    Step 1. Have to admire the way it was done. Season done, contract signed the next day. No mixed messages. No confusion. A good message to Lowry. A good message to everyone. I can see how you might not like it but for anyone who thinks he deserves to not get a renewal, tell me what the next steps are.
    I like the no-nonsense way Ujiri operates. When things happen, they happen...tight, clean front office. Great to see that level of professionalism from this franchise.

    Quote Blacklash2k4 wrote: View Post
    I don't understand why some people are so upset. Yes... his coaching is pretty god awful at times,


    __________________________________________________ __________________________

    Emotional levels past 36 hours

    Pre-game: Jittery and nervous

    Mid-game: Angry and confused at Casey's inexplicable usage of his players after a season of the same mistakes

    6.2 seconds left: I'm so happy I"M GONNA DIE!!

    End of game: *Dies*

    Overnight: Slept off dead-ness

    Hear's Casey got resigned: *Dies inside*

    Just a husk of a human being now...

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  7. #245
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    Woah....deja vu.
    I thought I saw bad decisions by the Raptors, then I saw the same mistakes again 7 years later.

  8. #246
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    Is it just me, or is it not really very strange that we tend to consider coaches as finished products who won't ever learn or adapt or adjust, yet we expect exactly the opposite of players? Does no one remember how bad of a coach Doc Rivers was considered until he suddenly had a championship roster?

    I mean look, how many 'elite' coaches are there in the league? Maybe 3-5? Even the replacements that people are clamouring for have their warts - Stan Van Gundy for example reportedly lost the Orlando locker room with his constant negativity. The grass is always greener because of course we don't see the mistakes that the other coaches in the league make game after game.

    Casey may not be the best Xs and Os coach out there, but he motivates the hell out of his team and gets them to play for each other and buy into the team concept, which is the biggest challenge for any NBA head coach.

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  10. #247
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    Quote Lark Benson wrote: View Post
    Is it just me, or is it not really very strange that we tend to consider coaches as finished products who won't ever learn or adapt or adjust, yet we expect exactly the opposite of players? Does no one remember how bad of a coach Doc Rivers was considered until he suddenly had a championship roster?

    I mean look, how many 'elite' coaches are there in the league? Maybe 3-5? Even the replacements that people are clamouring for have their warts - Stan Van Gundy for example reportedly lost the Orlando locker room with his constant negativity. The grass is always greener because of course we don't see the mistakes that the other coaches in the league make game after game.

    Casey may not be the best Xs and Os coach out there, but he motivates the hell out of his team and gets them to play for each other and buy into the team concept, which is the biggest challenge for any NBA head coach.
    This. The ball is in Masai's court, he needs to upgrade this team.
    The name's Bond, James Bond.

  11. #248
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    I'm just gonna go ahead and say it: everybody saying the Casey rehire is a bad move really needs to justify that logic. Nobody is saying that Casey is flawless, but he's definitely good at a fair amount of the job and where he's weak are areas where assistants can make a difference anyway.

    Seriously, who else would you hire over Casey? Either Van Gundy, both of whom have shown they have a knack for losing player confidence? George Karl, who doesn't coach defense at all and has a long history of first-round playoff collapses? Mark Jackson, who has all of Casey's coaching minuses and a reputation for being difficult with other coaches and front office staff? An untested college coach who has to learn NBA coaching - which is a different style of coaching than college coaching, where you can just order players however you like - on the go?

    Seriously, unless Doc Williams was somehow going to be available (and he likely wasn't), there aren't a lot of better options.

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  13. #249
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    Predictable outcome.

  14. #250
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    I watched Casey's interviews from yesterday and today, and I am glad the he is accountable for his mistakes and open to learning from them.

    So, with some reluctance, I will support this decision, and hope for the best. He certainly has the respect of the players, and he seems to know how to rally the team at times, so I will give him that.

    All the best to you, Dwayne Casey! Lead us even farther next season!
    “You can sink and drown, or you can float, and we out here like Michael Phelps."
    Demar Derozan


  15. #251
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    Quote magoon wrote: View Post
    I'm just gonna go ahead and say it: everybody saying the Casey rehire is a bad move really needs to justify that logic. Nobody is saying that Casey is flawless, but he's definitely good at a fair amount of the job and where he's weak are areas where assistants can make a difference anyway.
    He saw the ball go out of bounds on one side of the court, called a timeout, then set up play to run ON THE OTHER SIDE OF THE COURT!!!

    That's enough, that alone is enough proof.

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  17. #252
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    Quote magoon wrote: View Post
    I'm just gonna go ahead and say it: everybody saying the Casey rehire is a bad move really needs to justify that logic. Nobody is saying that Casey is flawless, but he's definitely good at a fair amount of the job and where he's weak are areas where assistants can make a difference anyway.

    Seriously, who else would you hire over Casey? Either Van Gundy, both of whom have shown they have a knack for losing player confidence? George Karl, who doesn't coach defense at all and has a long history of first-round playoff collapses? Mark Jackson, who has all of Casey's coaching minuses and a reputation for being difficult with other coaches and front office staff? An untested college coach who has to learn NBA coaching - which is a different style of coaching than college coaching, where you can just order players however you like - on the go?

    Seriously, unless Doc Williams was somehow going to be available (and he likely wasn't), there aren't a lot of better options.
    Hornacek and Budenholzer both looked like way better coaches than Casey this year and both were first time head coach hires in the offseason. We didn't need to get a Van Gundy or bust. If that was every teams mentality then there would never be any coaching changes ever. It's been said a million times in the other threads about the coaching, but I guess you choose to ignore all that.

  18. #253
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    Quote Letter N wrote: View Post
    He saw the ball go out of bounds on one side of the court, called a timeout, then set up play to run ON THE OTHER SIDE OF THE COURT!!!

    That's enough, that alone is enough proof.
    So every coach should be let go each time they make a mistake, is what you're saying.

    I have zero confidence in Casey's end of game play calling. There's just been a major lack of those end of game attempts actually happening.

    That said, Casey absolutely deserved this extension. What the team accomplished this year was so far above expectations that you have to reward the coach for having the players play so high above their expected levels. Whether he's the coach to lead them long term remains to be seen, but to get them to this point has to be rewarded.

  19. #254
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    Quote Primer wrote: View Post
    Hornacek and Budenholzer both looked like way better coaches than Casey this year and both were first time head coach hires in the offseason.
    Statements like this drive me nuts.

    How many Hawks games did you watch this year? How many Suns games?

    Both coaches you just named had rosters built with a very specific play style in mind and those coaches did a great job of carrying them out. But so did Casey.

    To me the difference is this:

    Budenholzer comes out smelling like roses because his roster had a great set of match ups against his first round opponent, leading to a bit of a surprise run against a lethargic Pacers team that continues to be all over the map. But were you watching those games and monitoring substitution patterns, play calling, etc like you were with Casey? Something tells me you weren't. So how can you judge him?

    Hornachek didn't have to manage a first round playoff series. If the Raps and Suns had have swapped conferences and the Raps had finished the regular season just outside of the playoffs but shown the same dramatic improvement, would this even be up for discussion?

    Again, the grass is always greener until you find yourself standing on it and realize it's just about the same colour wherever you are.

  20. #255
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    Just imagine we get Durant in 16, Casey benches him for a 37 yr old John Salmon in game 7.

    Beautiful.

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  22. #256
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    Every coach will have strengths and weaknesses, the great ones just don't have many. There are a select few (ex: Pop, Phil) who don't have many (if any), and those are due to them having an extreme amount of deep playoffs experience to get where they are now.

    When looking at those coaching greats, there is one thing that really stands out about them. They aren't coaches, they are teachers. They aren't up on the sidelines yelling for their guys to do things how they want them too...they have done the job behind the scenes of educating them how to already. All they do is manage matchups to put their guys in good defensive and offensive situations. Of course having elite talent to help run the show doesn't hurt either. They make adjustments on certain matchups quickly (ex: Pop let Mavs go on 8 point run to start the 3rd in game 7....changed the matchup [KL to the 4 to counter VC] and proceeded to troll over the Mavs). These guys also instill confidence into all the players that play for them, whether it is Tim Duncan...or Austin Daye

    So when I look at Casey's strengths and weakness I take into consideration the fact that he will learn as he goes

    Strengths:
    -has locker room, everyone respects him/likes him
    -gets his team to engage defensively over a long season
    -enthusiastic on the sidelines
    -teaches proper rotations

    Weaknesses
    -In game adjustments are non-existent at best, counter-intuitive at worst
    -Lack of confidence in young players, regardless of how well they are playing
    -Over-reliance on "veterans", who "already know"
    -Offensive acuity is poor
    -Accountability is favored. Certain players (mainly vets/stars) are allowed to make mistakes while young guys have zero leash. Disparity like that is BAD
    -Plays players out of their strengths

    Undecided
    -Is player development on him?? Or the assistants?? Personally I think Bayno and Nurse should be credited

    That is a lot more weaknesses than strengths.

    But.....all that said.....

    Casey has had some bad teams to coach so far...and coaches take too much of the blame when they lose, and too much credit when they win. Ujiri is looking to build upon this roster and give Casey some serious talent and we will see when the talent is there whether Casey is the coach that makes it to that great level....time will tell

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  24. #257
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    Quote Letter N wrote: View Post
    He saw the ball go out of bounds on one side of the court, called a timeout, then set up play to run ON THE OTHER SIDE OF THE COURT!!!

    That's enough, that alone is enough proof.
    They give a nice breakdown here:



    Pretty incredible, not going to lie. I was certainly left scratching my head with Hubie Brown.
    "I just dunked. Got a little dunk. That’s nice." Terrence Ross

  25. #258
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    Quote OldSkoolCool wrote: View Post
    Casey has had some bad teams to coach so far...and coaches take too much of the blame when they lose, and too much credit when they win. Ujiri is looking to build upon this roster and give Casey some serious talent and we will see when the talent is there whether Casey is the coach that makes it to that great level....time will tell
    Exactly.

    But I wanted to add that Pop has not always been the amazing coach he is now. He nearly drove Parker out of the league and has since admitted that he rode him way too hard (and you think the way Casey manages Val's minutes has been tough?). He had clashes with Ginobli too. SA has been his only head coaching gig, and if Robinson hadn't broken his foot then who knows how things might have turned out for him? It's a lot easier to succeed when you inherit a one of the best players in the history of the game after one disastrous season. But the point is this: Pop was given the opportunity to grow with his roster (and shape it, because he gave Buford his job after all and you know he still has a hand in every personnel decision) and made the most of it. That's a model that should be emulated.

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  27. #259
    Raptors Republic All-Star JimiCliff's Avatar
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    Quote Other Scott wrote: View Post
    So every coach should be let go each time they make a mistake, is what you're saying.

    I have zero confidence in Casey's end of game play calling. There's just been a major lack of those end of game attempts actually happening.

    That said, Casey absolutely deserved this extension. What the team accomplished this year was so far above expectations that you have to reward the coach for having the players play so high above their expected levels. Whether he's the coach to lead them long term remains to be seen, but to get them to this point has to be rewarded.
    When that mistake happens during second most important play in franchise history, and when that mistake is so mind bendingly horrendous that you're rarely going to see it at even the high school level, then whoever's in charge has to take a long, hard look at the man responsible.

    I hope, for all of our sakes, that that play at least made Masai think for a little while.
    Last edited by JimiCliff; Mon May 5th, 2014 at 11:40 PM.

  28. #260
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    I shake my head at some of the dead ball play calling and rotations more than anyone but I can still acknowledge that Casey did a really good job this year. Plenty of young teams fly completely off the rails every single year and these guys looked poised to do it this season when they were 6-12, they were trading away their 'best player', and the tank talk was swirling in every media outlet. 5 months later and they have their best regular season ever, with just about everyone in their top 8 playing the best basketball of their careers down the stretch, while becoming a team with a rep for great effort and chemistry. I don't think that happens without pretty good coaching.

    I'm also willing to give Ujiri the benefit of the doubt and assume that if we all see the deficiencies with inbound plays and end of game situations, that he probably sees it too. I'm sure today's decision came with some conversation on a solution for that, whether it's allowing assistants to handle those duties or hiring someone new, or whatever.

    I think some of us are guilty of viewing basketball too rigidly. I don't know if it's the current analytics swoon or something else but it seems like we won't give credence to anything that can't be graphed. I'm not an old school ideologist in the least but I think the relationships still matter. They always have. They always will. And I'm talking about the ones from the front office all the way down. The franchise did things differently this year with Leiweke and Ujiri at the helm and the results seemed to be a lot of empowered players and coaches. I feel like you can undermine a lot of that by telling Casey to hit the bricks when his players clearly rallied around him this year.
    Last edited by Fully; Mon May 5th, 2014 at 11:46 PM.

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