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  • stooley wrote: View Post
    Well you just completely ignored the very long, thoughtful and reasonable post that I made on the last page regarding accountability and playing time.
    I read it, and completely disagree. I think Casey is retarding the process of JV and Ross by not letting them play heavier minutes and taking them out of games when they're on the line (e.g. the entire 4th quarter). I don't think there was any benefit at all to yanking JV for every 4th quarter all year long.

    It's like your mom calling a babysitter instead of letting you watch your little brother, even though you're 12 years old and could dunk all over the shitty babysitter (Hayes). You gotta show trust in these young guys at some point. Casey would rather wait until they're 35 years old.
    Last edited by Primer; Wed May 7, 2014, 12:41 PM.

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    • Primer wrote: View Post
      I read it, and completely disagree. I think Casey is retarding the process of JV and Ross by not letting them play heavier minutes and taking them out of games when they're on the line (e.g. the entire 4th quarter). I don't think there was any benefit at all to yanking JV for every 4th quarter all year long.
      Ok well... interesting. You think accountability has 0 effect on helping a player develop I take it?
      "Bruno?
      Heh, if he is in the D-league still in a few years I will be surprised.
      He's terrible."

      -Superjudge, 7/23

      Hope you're wrong.

      Comment


      • stooley wrote: View Post
        Ok well... interesting. You think accountability has 0 effect on helping a player develop I take it?
        I don't equate sitting someone the entire 4th quarter to holding them accountable. No other coaches in the league do that shit with their star sophomores. How will they ever learn to close out games if never given the opportunity?

        My theory, just a theory, is that Casey was given more lineup control at the end of games, and the starting lineup was basically forced on him by Masai. Hence the disparity in those lineups throughout the year. I guarantee Casey's first choice was to start Salmons instead of Ross after the Gay trade.

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        • I think it more has to do with Casey trying to develop players (playing JV and Ross decent minutes) but also trying to win games when the 4th quarter came around (playing whoever would help the team win). Worked out quite well if that was his plan. Whether this was a good plan or not, I'm not entirely sure, since 4th quarter minutes are valuable. But can't argue with the overall results of developing and winning at the same time

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          • wallz wrote: View Post
            I think it more has to do with Casey trying to develop players (playing JV and Ross decent minutes) but also trying to win games when the 4th quarter came around (playing whoever would help the team win). Worked out quite well if that was his plan. Whether this was a good plan or not, I'm not entirely sure, since 4th quarter minutes are valuable. But can't argue with the overall results of developing and winning at the same time
            Hayes wasn't out there winning games for us in the 4th, neither was Salmons. That's what makes it egregious in my eyes. The backup options off the bench were horrendous.

            Oh well, new season coming up. JV and Ross better average closer to 35 minutes per game this year. No more excuses, they're 3rd year players, not rookies.

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            • Primer wrote: View Post
              Haha, not show Casey himself, just show all of his supporters on the forums. I'm behind Casey for now, but fair warning, I will turn on him in a heartbeat (Game of Thrones style) if he doesn't play JV, Ross, and the 2014 1st round pick.
              The only way I can see you behind Casey is with a raised battle axe in your hands (Game of Thrones style)
              If we knew half as much about coaching an NBA team as we think, we"d know twice as much as we do.

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              • Primer wrote: View Post
                I don't equate sitting someone the entire 4th quarter to holding them accountable. No other coaches in the league do that shit with their star sophomores. How will they ever learn to close out games if never given the opportunity?

                My theory, just a theory, is that Casey was given more lineup control at the end of games, and the starting lineup was basically forced on him by Masai. Hence the disparity in those lineups throughout the year. I guarantee Casey's first choice was to start Salmons instead of Ross after the Gay trade.
                Jonas averaged 6.7 minutes per fourth quarter, out of 28.2 minutes per game. So he played almost exactly one quarter of his minutes in the fourth.

                Further, he averages far more minutes in close game situations than in blow outs.

                You just don't like Casey and I'm not sure you'd feel any different about any other coach. You see the world as black and white. If he's not with you, he's wrong. It's a lot more complicated than that, especially when we're talking about developing a young player.

                edit: Jonas also played in 25 overtime minutes this year

                edit edit: also, do you not realize how, in all of your arguments, you pin anything good on everyone except for DC? does this polar extreme not strike you as strange and unlikely?
                Last edited by stooley; Wed May 7, 2014, 01:29 PM.
                "Bruno?
                Heh, if he is in the D-league still in a few years I will be surprised.
                He's terrible."

                -Superjudge, 7/23

                Hope you're wrong.

                Comment


                • casey is a good coach.

                  players like him.


                  Look at what they fucking accomplished under him.


                  Anyone refuting this is an idito as it pertains to the game of basketball and how it works.

                  Comment


                  • To be honest I was agnostic about Casey being retained...either way. MU made a good deal signing him for what is essentially a 2 year deal (team option for the 3rd) which allows for a hook if things bog down or the offense issues continue to not improve. The continuity is pretty important after the year the team had and keeping the chemistry thing going...but I am sure Masai is going to be looking for improvement not just in team personnel but coaching levels as well. I'd like DC to succeed here (he is good with the media and communicates well with the team and good guy) but his rotations, end of game situation management were numbing sometimes (I dont think they ever got the inbounds plays right the entire season!).

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                    • Everything Coach

                      Primer wrote: View Post
                      Hayes wasn't out there winning games for us in the 4th, neither was Salmons. That's what makes it egregious in my eyes. The backup options off the bench were horrendous.

                      Oh well, new season coming up. JV and Ross better average closer to 35 minutes per game this year. No more excuses, they're 3rd year players, not rookies.
                      Yet they were a top 4th quarter team in the league. I understand questioning certain rotations, but when the team is succeeding with said rotations, there's not much value in arguing against them. I'd rather have Hansbrough in instead of Hayes, but the coaches must be pretty confident in Hayes' ability to defend if he consistently gets more minutes. My only real complaint is salmons getting minutes over fields in the playoffs, as JJ tore the defense apart when guarded by anyone other than Landry

                      But with that said, I do agree with you in that those two should get more minutes next season, and im sure Casey is thinking the same thing

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                      • Superjudge wrote: View Post
                        casey is a good coach.

                        players like him.


                        Look at what they fucking accomplished under him.


                        Anyone refuting this is an idito as it pertains to the game of basketball and how it works.
                        But it could be they would have fucking accomplished the exact same fucking accomplishment under a multitude of other coaches. Or, perhaps, fucking accomplished even more. Either way, there's no real way to know this, which is why I don't accept "BUT WE WON A FRANCHISE RECORD OF GAMES UNDER HIM" as a valid argument as to whether he's good or bad.
                        "Stop eating your sushi."
                        "I do actually have a pair of Uggs."
                        "I've had three cups of green tea tonight. I'm wired. I'm absolutely wired."
                        - Jack Armstrong

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                        • JimiCliff wrote: View Post
                          But it could be they would have fucking accomplished the exact same fucking accomplishment under a multitude of other coaches. Or, perhaps, fucking accomplished even more. Either way, there's no real way to know this, which is why I don't accept "BUT WE WON A FRANCHISE RECORD OF GAMES UNDER HIM" as a valid argument as to whether he's good or bad.
                          True, but what I've been saying is that the same thing can be said about our analyses of his rotation patterns and play calling.

                          We generally don't know in what context or for what reasons the rotations are being made. That's pretty important.

                          We also generally can't separate play calling from players' ability to execute that play.

                          So while overall results ignore the impact of the players on the record, picking apart most of his plays (unless he comes out and says he fucked up - ) suffers from the same problem. And rotations, I'd argue are even less clear.
                          "Bruno?
                          Heh, if he is in the D-league still in a few years I will be surprised.
                          He's terrible."

                          -Superjudge, 7/23

                          Hope you're wrong.

                          Comment


                          • stooley wrote: View Post
                            True, but what I've been saying is that the same thing can be said about our analyses of his rotation patterns and play calling.

                            We generally don't know in what context or for what reasons the rotations are being made. That's pretty important.

                            We also generally can't separate play calling from players' ability to execute that play.

                            So while overall results ignore the impact of the players on the record, picking apart most of his plays (unless he comes out and says he fucked up - ) suffers from the same problem. And rotations, I'd argue are even less clear.
                            By your logic, team record is the only reasonable way to assess a coach's ability. Sorry, but I disagree vehemently with that suggestion.

                            I know the context of his rotations and play calling because I'm watching the games, that's the context. You're basically saying all of us fans are too fucking stupid to tell if a coach is doing well or not by watching the games, and all we should look at is the amount of wins.

                            Comment


                            • JimiCliff wrote: View Post
                              But it could be they would have fucking accomplished the exact same fucking accomplishment under a multitude of other coaches. Or, perhaps, fucking accomplished even more. Either way, there's no real way to know this, which is why I don't accept "BUT WE WON A FRANCHISE RECORD OF GAMES UNDER HIM" as a valid argument as to whether he's good or bad.
                              His record isn't a argument? Are you daft? That's like saying profit, or actual results, or analytics isn't a argument.

                              Of course his record is a valid argument. It's one of many valid arguments.

                              If the basis of your distaste for Casey is simply that he messed up a few calls and rotations in a playoff series, than your argument it just as unsophisticated and myopic as anyone's.

                              Comment


                              • Primer wrote: View Post
                                By your logic, team record is the only reasonable way to assess a coach's ability. Sorry, but I disagree vehemently with that suggestion.

                                I know the context of his rotations and play calling because I'm watching the games, that's the context. You're basically saying all of us fans are too fucking stupid to tell if a coach is doing well or not by watching the games, and all we should look at is the amount of wins.
                                That's actually not what I said.

                                I said that in-season success is no less valid than examining rotations, play calling and what not. I'm saying that by analysing every single one of these aspects, we're able to come to a somewhat more informed conclusion. I'm also arguing that when doing that, Casey looks like a pretty decent coach. Not in the top tier with Pop and Thibs, but somewhere in that next tier of "with the right guys, he's a successful coach."

                                And re:the bold, yes, that is exactly what I'm saying. The fact that you think otherwise leads me to believe you are vastly overestimating your knowledge of the situation.

                                edit: especially since whatever stats we're basing our answers on are way, way less advanced than whatever proprietary stuff the team is producing

                                edit edit: also the context is so much more than what we see happening in the game. it involves what happened at practice the day before, how each player responds to certain situations in the long term and like a thousand other factors.
                                Last edited by stooley; Wed May 7, 2014, 03:27 PM.
                                "Bruno?
                                Heh, if he is in the D-league still in a few years I will be surprised.
                                He's terrible."

                                -Superjudge, 7/23

                                Hope you're wrong.

                                Comment

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