Everything Coach

[thead]

deals I would do since its become apparent who would be resigned

Lowry (2014) 12m (2015) 12m (2016) 11m (2017) 11m Team Option 4 years 46 million
Vasquez (2014) 5.5m (2015) 6.0m (2016) 6.5m (2017) 7.0m Team Option 4 years 25 million
Patterson (2014) 6.0m (2015) 6.5m (2016) 7.0m (2017) 7.5m Team Option 4 years 27 million
DeColo (2014) 3.0m (2015) 3.5m (2016) 3.75m (2017) 4.0m Team Option 4 years 14.25 million

these are obviously not specific numbers since raise percentages are different based on certain factors that I haven't taken the time to understand.

some people might say I'm overpaying for Vasquez, for which I point to your typical 6th man salary that ranges between 5 - 8 million
some people might say I'm overpaying for Patterson, for which I point to your first big salary/guy who could also start. Scola gets 4.5 to Gibson who gets 8m. Amir got 7 and I see Patterson eclipsing him in the next season.
some people might say I'm overpaying De Colo. Based on history I am. But I'm telling you there is something special about that guy and he is going to force his way into the rotation next year.

As for Lowry I think I have that pegged

[magoon]

some people might say I'm overpaying for Vasquez, for which I point to your typical 6th man salary that ranges between 5 - 8 million
some people might say I'm overpaying for Patterson, for which I point to your first big salary/guy who could also start. Scola gets 4.5 to Gibson who gets 8m. Amir got 7 and I see Patterson eclipsing him in the next season.

Yes, you are overpaying for both of them. I want Vasquez and Patterson to be happy too, but both of them want to come back here and both of them are either going to accept the qualifying offer or ask to become RFAs and seek a decent extension. In either case we don't need to offer them a stupidly large amount of money. Knock about $1.5m-2m off each of these salaries and you're closer to what's reasonable/sensible.

[rocwell]

DeRozan and 2Pat will workout with Olajuwon too. via wolstat

[bryan colangelo]

Thank you sweet baby Jesus. 2 year deal with team option for the 3rd. I knew Masai was smart. Way to hedge your bet buddy. Now, we just can't let any other team poach Nurse from us, that way if Casey struggles we can always fire him and promote Nurse. I'm hoping he doesn't struggle, but just like Masai did with that Casey contract, you gotta plan for the worst.

Ye of little faith.

[Primer]

Ye of little faith.

Me and Masai buddy. If Masai had true faith in Casey he wouldn't have done a 2 year deal with a team option for the 3rd. Masai basically got the best of both worlds here. He gives Casey a chance to keep improving and doesn't piss off fans such as yourself that think Casey earned it, but he also maintains the flexibility to easily get rid of Casey if things aren't working out (e.g. we're not hamstrung on a 4 year $16M contract).

[thead]

It's not about what you think they are worth. It's about market precedent. Vasquez falls in the 5m to 8m range, Patterson 6m - 8m range. with Vasquez think Jarrett Jack money, with Patterson look at Taj Gibson's contract.

I'm willing to bet dollars to donuts that the contracts offered are far closer to what I posted then a few million less per year

[white men can't jump]

It's not about what you think they are worth. It's about market precedent. Vasquez falls in the 5m to 8m range, Patterson 6m - 8m range. with Vasquez think Jarrett Jack money, with Patterson look at Taj Gibson's contract.

I'm willing to bet dollars to donuts that the contracts offered are far closer to what I posted then a few million less per year

Market precedent doesn't really apply, since the free agent market changes every year because of teams' needs and available space to fill those needs, and also throw in with whether a guy is a RFA or UFA, since teams are always more reluctant to pursue RFAs since it's harder to pull them away from their previous team.

The point is, they don't need to make an offer above the qualifying offer for either one until they have to. Give them their qualifying offers to maintain RFA rights. See if any team makes a better offer and if so, then negotiate with them to see if you can keep them. Don't outbid yourself, basically.

And it's hard to project examples onto other guys.

[stooley]

Me and Masai buddy. If Masai had true faith in Casey he wouldn't have done a 2 year deal with a team option for the 3rd. Masai basically got the best of both worlds here. He gives Casey a chance to keep improving and doesn't piss off fans such as yourself that think Casey earned it, but he also maintains the flexibility to easily get rid of Casey if things aren't working out (e.g. we're not hamstrung on a 4 year $16M contract).

Well yeah, duh.

You were the only guy calling for a necessary 4 year contract lol.

I'm one of DC's biggest defenders on this board, and I never, ever wanted 4 years.

[Raptorsnz]

For this thread:

[thead]

The Market for fringe starting roll playing bigs

comparable players to Patterson (non rookie deals)

Elton Brand 4 million
Brandon Bass 6.9 million
Mirza Teletovic 3.2 million
Taj Gibson 7.5 million
Spencer Hawes 6.6 million
Brandan Wright 5.0 million
JJ Hickson 5.15 million
Charlie V 8.5 million
Marress Speights 3.5 million
Luis Scola 4.5 million
Udonis Haslem 4.3 million
Ersan Ilyasova 7.9 million
Ryan Anderson 8.3 million
Andrea Bargnani 11.8 million
Nick Collison 2.5 million
Glen Davis 6.4 million
Hedo Turkoglu 10.0 million
Thaddeus Young 8.8 million
Channing Frye 6.4 million
Carl Landry 6.5 million
Boris Diaw 4.7 million
Marvin Williams 7.5 million

Average Salary = 6.36 million

[thead]

and yes there are a lot of reasons why terrible contracts are sign but they inflate the market nonetheless. Just because you think Coke should cost a dollar doesn't mean the machine will give it to you for less then 2

[thead]

Market precedent ALWAYS applies. The outliers are dumb GMs, and ring chasers

[Primer]

deals I would do since its become apparent who would be resigned

Lowry (2014) 12m (2015) 12m (2016) 11m (2017) 11m Team Option 4 years 46 million
Vasquez (2014) 5.5m (2015) 6.0m (2016) 6.5m (2017) 7.0m Team Option 4 years 25 million
Patterson (2014) 6.0m (2015) 6.5m (2016) 7.0m (2017) 7.5m Team Option 4 years 27 million
DeColo (2014) 3.0m (2015) 3.5m (2016) 3.75m (2017) 4.0m Team Option 4 years 14.25 million

these are obviously not specific numbers since raise percentages are different based on certain factors that I haven't taken the time to understand.

some people might say I'm overpaying for Vasquez, for which I point to your typical 6th man salary that ranges between 5 - 8 million
some people might say I'm overpaying for Patterson, for which I point to your first big salary/guy who could also start. Scola gets 4.5 to Gibson who gets 8m. Amir got 7 and I see Patterson eclipsing him in the next season.
some people might say I'm overpaying De Colo. Based on history I am. But I'm telling you there is something special about that guy and he is going to force his way into the rotation next year.

As for Lowry I think I have that pegged

Dear god I hope you're way off on your estimates. Way too expensive for everyone (except Lowry, that looks right). Frankly, if they cost that much it might be better to move on. We need cap space in 2015 and if we do these signings we don't have it.

If we did these signings in 2015 we would have:

DD at $9.5
Lowry at $12M
Vasquez at $6M
Patterson at $6.5M
De Colo at $3.5M
JV at $4.7M
Ross at $3.5M
Novak at $3.75M
2014 1st at $1.27M
Incomplete roster charge $1.5M (for remaining 3 players that have to be signed)

Total = $52.25M

The cap will be around $60M. Doesn't give us much room at all to make impact signings.

I'd pay Vasquez around $3M per year. Which is more than most backup PG's around the league. If we have to give Vasquez $6M per year I'd just let him walk. Jose barely got paid over $6M and he's a full time starter.

I'd give Patterson a $5M per year deal. He's a nice player but realistically he's a 20 minute per game guy, and you can't spend starter money on a 20 minute per game guy.

De Colo I'd offer the minimum or slightly above it $1M-$2M. $3M+ per year is outrageous for a guy who never even saw the court all playoffs.

[stooley]

Dear god I hope you're way off on your estimates. Way too expensive for everyone (except Lowry, that looks right). Frankly, if they cost that much it might be better to move on. We need cap space in 2015 and if we do these signings we don't have it.

If we did these signings in 2015 we would have:

DD at $9.5
Lowry at $12M
Vasquez at $6M
Patterson at $6.5M
De Colo at $3.5M
JV at $4.7M
Ross at $3.5M
Novak at $3.75M
2014 1st at $1.27M
Incomplete roster charge $1.5M (for remaining 3 players that have to be signed)

Total = $52.25M

The cap will be around $60M. Doesn't give us much room at all to make impact signings.

I'd pay Vasquez around $3M per year. Which is more than most backup PG's around the league. If we have to give Vasquez $6M per year I'd just let him walk. Jose barely got paid over $6M and he's a full time starter.

I'd give Patterson a $5M per year deal. He's a nice player but realistically he's a 20 minute per game guy, and you can't spend starter money on a 20 minute per game guy.

De Colo I'd offer the minimum or slightly above it $1M-$2M. $3M+ per year is outrageous for a guy who never even saw the court all playoffs.

I agree, except you probably have to give Vasquez closer to 4.5/5.

Andre Miller makes 5. And Vasquez can be a 6th man type spark plug off the bench.

[thead]

hey I would love to get them for cheaper...I just ran through the salaries of 30 teams and aside from an admitted overpay on De Colo (based on my hunch) the numbers I put up seem to be right about what they are worth. We are never going to be huge free agent players it makes more sense to go over the cap with guys in the medium salary range to allow for trades.